"While Cthulhu stirs in his slumber, investigators have their maximum Sanity and maximum Stamina reduced by 1."

So when he wakes up, surely he's no longer "stirring in his slumber" so the Investigator's maximum Sanity and Stamina should both return to their printed values? You wouldn't actually gain any Sanity or Stamina tokens, just the maximums. Surely?

Otherwise, if "stirs in his slumber" text applis during the Final Battle, then it would also apply for Chaugnar Fagn, Quachil Uttaus, Glaaki and Ghatanothoa, too ...

"Stirs in his slumber" is flavor text. Those AO effects are in play all game, including final combat. For many AOs this isn't relevant, but for:

Cthulhu: you don't get the maximums back. When facing him in an Other World, you don't lose those maximums immediately, but you also don't get them back when the battle is over.

Azathoth: even if you have some weird effect that awakens the AO and strips it of doom tokens (like Call Ancient One), removing all of Azathoth's doom tokens would still not defeat it, as his entire special ability is that you lose if he awakens.

Glaaki: if you're devoured during battle with Glaaki, the terror level increases by 2. This could cause the game to be over. If you use The Messanger ally to avoid being devoured when the Terror Level hits 10 while in battle, all your comrades will die, causing the terror level to increase by 2 for each investigator. Since the terror level is already at 10, that means that even though you survive, Glaaki will gain 2 doom tokens for every other investigator who was devoured!

Yibb Tstll: you're still limited to 5 clues per investigator. Not like it matters, because she eats all your clues when you awaken, and it's tough to get clues during final combat (and I forbid it with my team, specifically because of Nyarlathotep/Roland)

Eihort: when you gain a brood token, you still have to roll to see if you die, and if you die your broods are still added to his doom track. Of course, this is self-evident, as there would be no battle if these didn't take place.

Here are some I'm unsure about...

Quachil Uttaus: ??? I have not been playing you're supposed to deal with the dust deck during final combat, but this hasn't been forbidden has it? Not like it matters: QU will nuke anyone.

Chaugnar Faugn: I assume that investigators who were in a neighborhood with seal when CF awoke don't get the penalty, but what if they still have an elder sign? Does everyone in the battle get the penalty? They're all in the same "place," because they can trade items.

Tibs said:

With Glaaki, I was thinking more about the Servants Of Glaaki. Each time the terror level goes up, an Ally is discarded. So technically, each time the terror level goes up during the Final Battle, an Ally is discarded and a Servant Of Glaaki is placed into play ...

That's true, and the rulebook backs that up specifically. But what about the devoured=2 TL thing?

Should these questions be asked on the new FAQ?

Tibs said:

I think, if there is no consistent ruling on whether or not "stirs in his slumber" is ALWAYS active (in which case Chaugnar, QU and Ghat(etc) just got harder), then there should be specific entries for each Ancient One. But if it is always active, that should be clarified too!

Stenun said:

How did Ghatanothoa get harder for final combat? Are you regularly gaining 2+ Clues during it?

As to Quachil Uttaus, maybe he has been worded correctly, but people miss the nuance of it.

QU:

"At the start of each turn, the first player must either spend 2 clue tokens or draw a card from the lowest-numbered dust deck that still has undrawn cards in it. " (emphasis added)

"A turn in Arkham Horror is divided into five phases." (p. 5)

"Combat with the Ancient One is divided into rounds." (p. 22)

Turn is the term used for regular stuff, before the GOO wakes up. Final combat uses rounds, not turns.

Quachil Uttaus stalks his prey while he slumbers, eventually tracking you down and devouring you.

Final combat, demons are awake and **** is being torn up. There is no more stalking. Dude just gives you the touch of death.

Dam said:

Regularly? No. But Tommy Muldoon's mission makes it more than possible.

Dam said:

Interesting observation. If accurate, someone needs to notify certain Ancient Ones whose skill checks specfically get harder each TURN ... Suddenly I'm not so afraid of Yog-Sothoth. ;-)

GrooveChamp said:

That is certainly the intent, I am not arguing that point. I am arguing semantics and merely pointing out that whichever way it is intended to be, it needs to be clarified. :-)

Stenun said:

Consistency has never been a FFG-staple, when it comes to rules/definitions IMO.

Dam said:

That's kinda the whole point of this thread ...

I'm hoping the FAQ can clear this matter up and we either have all Ancient Ones have their entire text apply for the Final Battle or, and this would be the solution I prefer, a slight re-wording of Cthulhu that makes it clear that his text applies but no one else does.

Stenun said:

What about Yibb-Tstll (nobody can have more than 5 Clues) + Tommy Muldoon's PS + Roland? Other than that, QU and Ghatanothoa might be applicable, latter in the Tommy-case again. QU, well, you're gonna lose the final combat anyway, so who cares ? And really, the "best" it can do is -1 Sanity, assuming that when First Player token changes hands for any reason, the Dust Decks are reshuffled (2 GOO cancellers, technically you could see 1 investigator get devoured). Chaugnar Faugn to me would penalize you, but if you leave yourself with an unused ES, you deserve to get penalized.

You've got me interested now. I've gotta admit that this never really occured to me, but now that I think about it, it is a fairly big 'loophole'. It's not possible to infer the correct interpretation from the cards, though, because there are a lot of ambiguous cases.

There's only one AO whose Slumber ability explicitly relates to the final battle: Zhar.

In the cases of most AOs, it doesn't matter whether Slumber abilities apply in the final battle, because the ability refers only to events that can only occur in Arkham during the main game (usually triggered by something in the Mythos phase). These AOs are Abhoth, Atlach-Nacha, Azathoth, Bokrug, Cthugha, Hastur, Ithaqua, Nyarlathotep, Nyogtha, Rhan-Tegoth, Shub-Niggurath, Shudde M'ell, Tsathoggua, Y'Golonac (unless someone can think up a way to draw new items during final battle), Yibb-Tstll, Yig and Yog-Sothoth.

Then it gets tricky: the other six AOs all have Slumber abilities which could make a difference in the final battle, but nowhere (neither in the rulebook nor on the AOs themselves) is it specified whether the ability should keep working:

Chaugnar Faugn - because if you had an Elder Sign you'd still get the stat penalty when attacking him.
Cthulhu - for the reasons stated in this thread.
Eihort - because he may be able to "heal himself" or he may not. I think he is probably meant to be able to, but only because it's usually a very tense and unpredictable final battle if he can, and a pushover if he can't.
Ghatanathoa - like Stenum says, there are plenty of ways to gain two clues during the End Game; Roland Banks with a Press Pass can gain two every turn, as long as he keeps spending.
Glaaki - in theory it is possible to devour yourself in the final battle using items - you could use the Flute of the Outer Gods (although it has no actual effect on the Ancient One, I reckon you can still 'activate the item' and pay the cost, reduce yourself to 0/0 instantly, and be devoured. There might also be other ways using spells, but that's the only one I can think of right now.
Quachil Uttaus - although let's face it, he's invincible anyway.

Meh. Looking at that, Eihort is the only case in which it makes a serious difference to the difficulty of the battle. And Eihort's AO sheet has always been a mess anyway.

GrooveChamp said:

Though I'm reluctant to accept Dam's "nuance" explanation as though it was an intended exception, I'd say that thematically this is the best explanation.

The slumber ability of all the AOs are always in effect (such as Cthulhu's oppressive sanity/stamina lowering and Yibb's limit to a person's knowledge), but Quachil is no longer sitting back and stalking. He has already arrived to his victims. Besides, Quachil's attack is just... well, just awful.

A clarification would be nice, certainly. Cthulhu is asked about by far the most, but he's not the only one who's relevant.

Tibs said:

::Cough cough:: or you could just ban his ability from Nyarlathotep games ;')

thecorinthian said:

Ooo... I hadn't thought of that ;') Or Rex Murphy and press pass, if he passed his story.

thecorinthian said:

If you get knocked out by an epic battle card, you are devoured.

If you run out of sanity or stamina in any way, you are devoured. Not sure why you would cast a spell that would deliberately kill you unless you needed its effect REALLY BADLY, but it is possible. I also rule that Paranoia takes effect during Final Combat, because if characters are close enough to trade items and work together in a battle for the first and only time, then they're close enough to make the Paranoid guy go bananas.

It's also possible that you had an active Third Eye spell and somehow had a maximum sanity of only 1 (multiple sanity max lowering effects perhaps? Mythos Lore, Schitzophrenia and/or Vessel of the Mythos corruption?). Then the terror level rises during combat with Glaaki, and a Servant comes out that makes everyone lose a spell if able. You lose the spell, dropping to 0 maximum sanity and dying. Extraordinarily unlikely, I know, but possible.

I don't know Tibs. I think it's highly likely. I also think the player will probably only roll sixes that game ;')

I think you need to stop giving me loaded dice!!!