Using 3 VSD-IIs with Gunnery teams + tractors + Motti (or maybe Tarkin?) as a basis, add fighters for flavor. I'd like to try that fleet.

Yeah I like the idea of tractor beaming them for VSDs too, like a slow wall of death:

Imperial - 400

Admiral Screed

ISD II, Avenger, Support Officer, Q-7, Gunnery Team, ECM, SW7 Ion

VSD II, Support Officer, Q-7, Gunnery Team, Overload Pulse

VSD II, Support Officer, Q-7, Gunnery Team, Overload Pulse

Edit: cleaned up the copy and paste.

Hopefully you don't hit someone running tarkin or garm bel iblis. The free tokens pretty much negate the effectiveness of the beams, especially when multiplied across a ship spam list.

While iblis is probably going to be a rare duck, I wouldn't be surprised to see 4-5 APT gladiators commanded by tarkin.

I agree that in some ways, in a purely mathematical sense VSDs are superior stat packages to any other Imperial ship so far. However, I think that the significant improvement in navigation stats across the board on every Wave 2 ship (including the MC80) ultimately spells doom for the model. A ship that can't reliably engage the enemy in a meaningful way is a ship with little in the way of future options.

Unless there is a major upgrade in a future expansion, VSDs of all types will be left by the wayside in favor of ships and fleets more suited to their tasks. The moment Imperials get a Wave 3 ships with Squadron 2-3 and Offensive Retrofit we'll see Victory-class Star Detroyers completely disappear from the game. Which, as a core ship, isn't too bad. The only upgrade I regret not having so far is Motti and maybe Corrupter. But I'm only using one of my two VSDs, and I genuinely dont want to use the other. Great display pieces, but as a game piece I'm just not interested now that I have the Imperial Star Destroyer to deal with Rebel scum.

I agree that in some ways, in a purely mathematical sense VSDs are superior stat packages to any other Imperial ship so far. However, I think that the significant improvement in navigation stats across the board on every Wave 2 ship (including the MC80) ultimately spells doom for the model. A ship that can't reliably engage the enemy in a meaningful way is a ship with little in the way of future options.

Unless there is a major upgrade in a future expansion, VSDs of all types will be left by the wayside in favor of ships and fleets more suited to their tasks. The moment Imperials get a Wave 3 ships with Squadron 2-3 and Offensive Retrofit we'll see Victory-class Star Detroyers completely disappear from the game. Which, as a core ship, isn't too bad. The only upgrade I regret not having so far is Motti and maybe Corrupter. But I'm only using one of my two VSDs, and I genuinely dont want to use the other. Great display pieces, but as a game piece I'm just not interested now that I have the Imperial Star Destroyer to deal with Rebel scum.

I disagree with you. There is currently no better ship to "tank" an area. You put a Vic down and point it in a direction, and you can almost guarantee that enemy ships up to its power level are not going to be in that area/ vector (which is to say, anything but an MC80, ISD). This is going to be a great ship to bait your opponent in with.

You're 2nd paragraph, above, suggests/assumes that Wave 3 will bring out a Squadron 2-3, cost efficient ship. What if they don't? It's easy (and useless) to speculate that "if Wave 'x' releases a new ship that is superior to the Victory in the ways that it currently excels, it will become obsolete." But I have faith that FFG is not going to introduce a ship that usurps the Victory in all the areas it excels, and give it better stats in something else, thus making it obsolete. Their design history in X Wing suggests they are very aware of what roles' ships fill, and will be careful not to duplicate it.

the lack of VSD maneuverability is pretty irrelevant if the enemy is just as slow and immobile

seriously, these tractor beams are incredibly interesting en masse. Those and the coming need for more squadrons basically secure the VSD's place in wave 2 (because no one in their right mind would ever put flight controllers instead of gunnery on an ISD; on a VSD, however...

basically, ISD + squadrons for anti-ship and VSD + squadrons for anti-squadron)

The ISD hunts whales , but they go down HARD to concentrated Akbar

Not disagreeing, but it's worth noting that literally everything goes down hard under concentrated Ackbar-ing.

It's like saying something will go down hard to a double-arced, initiative-having, Screed-ed ACM Demolisher.

Can I see what a real concentrated Ackbar looks like? And what the list and how it deploys for firing are?

I think they will be good ISD hunters. Especially the Vic I. ISDs are fast but not really that maneuverable.

The ISD hunts whales , but they go down HARD to concentrated Akbar

Not disagreeing, but it's worth noting that literally everything goes down hard under concentrated Ackbar-ing.

It's like saying something will go down hard to a double-arced, initiative-having, Screed-ed ACM Demolisher.

Can I see what a real concentrated Ackbar looks like? And what the list and how it deploys for firing are?

Killed 2 ISD's with 2 Whales and an MC80. XI7's are a death sentence to them.

Well VSDs will go down the same way, only more so. Although with the new ruling on advanced projectors, Xi7s will really have that effect on everyone!

Well VSDs will go down the same way, only more so. Although with the new ruling on advanced projectors, Xi7s will really have that effect on everyone!

True, but VSDs will do so at 2/3 of the cost of an ISD and with perhaps one less shield and 3 less hull (so perhaps one less attack required total). Point for point, VSDs are superior meat shields to ISDs, but don't possess the same speed, maneuverability, or extra defensive/offensive upgrade slot.

VSDs, do however, have an option for an ordnance upgrade (VSD-I) whereas neither of the ISD options possess one.

In the grand scheme of things, I think VSD-Is will remain very competitive for their slot. VSD-IIs likely have the most competition from ISDs (due to having similar upgrade slots and the fact that the VSD-II's cost is proportionally much higher than a VSD-I).

I think the biggest problem VSDs are going to have moving forward is the lack of access to ECM, combined with their low speed and maneuverability in the coming Age of Ackbar.

in all honesty, ECM won't save your ISD from concentrated fire either. It'll reward good positioning by greatly limited the effectiveness of a single shot, but it is not a get out of fail (note, not necessarily a misspelling) free card.

You're going to beat Akbar by either overwhelming his long range advantage (squadrons) or speeding up to him and steamrolling right on through. Despite its horrible Nav chart, the VSD is actually quite capable of doing both (because Tractor Beams, son)

But really, the only ships capable of dominating Akbar are the small ships that can squeeze into the front/rear arcs ala GSDs and Raiders. It's not easy to get them in those arcs, but it is at least possible whereas the VSD is too clunky and the ISD too fat.

I think the biggest problem VSDs are going to have moving forward is the lack of access to ECM, combined with their low speed and maneuverability in the coming Age of Ackbar.

ECM certainly helps improve the survivability of the ISD-II, anyways, yes, but do keep in mind an ISD-II is a bit more than 50% more expensive than a VSD-I.

I agree with you that VSDs will not want to eat Ackbar/Home One-aided volleys and will probably come off worse for wear on that one but this assumes that the VSD is being used as it is right now in wave one, which is primarily as a slow but solid battleship. Do keep in mind that with an expected big meta shift expected for wave 2, the VSD can function as an extremely cost-effective long-ranged carrier and the Boosted Comms upgrade can assist you in keeping out of harm's way if necessary while your bombers are softening up the Rebel capital ships.

Actually, Xi7s will do squat against Neb-bs and Raiders. 5-7 Neb list for the win! Or 5 Pocket Carrier Raiders.

Nebs for the win, always

honestly, though, I wouldn't expect Nebs to come ahead of gunnery team Akbar ships in a long range slug-off. There is, however, very special mention for Salvation being a dominating, long range monster.

apart from her, though, I'd put more faith in Turbo-laser-re-route CR-90s (especially if they're backing Salvation). They pop like crazy, even at long range, but if you position well enough to limit oncoming fire you could down a frigate pretty dang quickly

Well VSDs will go down the same way, only more so. Although with the new ruling on advanced projectors, Xi7s will really have that effect on everyone!

True, but VSDs will do so at 2/3 of the cost of an ISD and with perhaps one less shield and 3 less hull (so perhaps one less attack required total). Point for point, VSDs are superior meat shields to ISDs, but don't possess the same speed, maneuverability, or extra defensive/offensive upgrade slot.

VSDs, do however, have an option for an ordnance upgrade (VSD-I) whereas neither of the ISD options possess one.

In the grand scheme of things, I think VSD-Is will remain very competitive for their slot. VSD-IIs likely have the most competition from ISDs (due to having similar upgrade slots and the fact that the VSD-II's cost is proportionally much higher than a VSD-I).

If you go for a fairly squadron heavy build supported by long range firepower from your ships, you will not be able to fit in 2 ISD-IIs in unless you forgo upgrading them. A VSD-II is in that case the next best thing, and with the proper upgrades the two ships synergize quite well.

Nebs for the win, always

honestly, though, I wouldn't expect Nebs to come ahead of gunnery team Akbar ships in a long range slug-off. There is, however, very special mention for Salvation being a dominating, long range monster.

apart from her, though, I'd put more faith in Turbo-laser-re-route CR-90s (especially if they're backing Salvation). They pop like crazy, even at long range, but if you position well enough to limit oncoming fire you could down a frigate pretty dang quickly

The question of AFM2s vs Nebs comes down to positioning. If you can get the Nebs line abreast and in front of the AFM2 line, you can win. The challenge is how to get there (which I'm still working on). The advantage of the AFM2 is that darn horizontal movement and the fact that Nebs want to approach in groups which unfortunately turns on the Gunnery Teams. Pure Nebs is probably too much to ask for, but I'm seriously considering adding in a CR-90 or two with Engine Tech (or just a shrimp) for the sole purpose of getting in front of the line to wreck havoc.