Hello,

So something I have been thinking is how will the Victory Star Destroyer (either 1 or 2) hold up now that the Imperial Star Destroyer is available? My personal response is I think it will do better since tractor beams and other upgrades will be out to help it along with MC-80 be a slower ship with a larger base which will be easier to get in front arc.

What do you think? Is this a ship that will slowly fade out now that more options are available? Does its limited speed and limited firepower (other than the front) hold it back?

Or will the Victory continue to be a good carrier and a support ship?

Thoughts?

The VSD 1 is still point for point the most efficient Imperial carrier.

The VSD 2 is still a great support for the ISD allowing for echelon formations that hem in the opponent into the firepower of the ISD.

No ship has gotten replaced.

I believe we had a similar topic a few weeks back. The short version is that VSDs are more cost-effective for their durability and attack dice than ISDs are, even though ISDs seem like better upgrade recipients. Similarly, you get a very good value from VSDs as carriers and they don't mind issuing Squadron commands on the cheap if your ISD is going to be your main battleship.

As above; efficient

Also, tractor beams don't seem terribly useful v the large ships and their clunky fat arises. Therefore, the medium VSD makes a perfectly fine, relatively cheap carrier to spam them with.

More beams = can't negate with a single nav command

Motti + 5 vics for t3h lulz.

I'm personally thinking the ship that's going to make the endangered species list is probably the poor old neb-b, and not for any fault of the ship itself, but because Ackbar is so tempting of an admiral.

Nah. NEB's are always on the "misunderstood" list. They won't be used regardless of Akbar

Besides, if there's anything that can compete at range with Akbar, it's slaved turrets Salvation. 1 less die than the typical fattie; crits count double.

Otherwise, it's a little more complicated. There's still Nothing better than a neb + Be house warming party against imps, but Enemy Akbars will demand Independence or sillies.

NEB's driving fiward can support bombers no problem (esp with AS fire) but I am REALLY curious about of amazing Comms are and NEB's can't take those

I bought a third VSD when I got my ISD from Sullust. There are probably some pretty fun 3 VSD fleet combos in a 400 point fleet I would love to explore.

Monday night I played a 400 point game where I fielded a Rhymer Ball, an ISD Carrier (Wing Commander/Hangar/comms), a demolisher and a fairly Vanilla VSD

The rebel player had initiative and chose the mines as the objective, I placed the mines in such a way that the centre would be painful and then stuck my ISD carrier in the corner at speed 1 with the Rhymer ball near by, the Demolisher and VSD took the other channel.

The idea was to **** the rebels with either obvious choice. Charge into the rhymer ball sitting by the station trying to get to the ISD and all those tasty points and get flanked, go after the flankers and get pincered by the ISD and harassed by the RB, or go down the middle and eat mines and face both.

It worked disgustingly well. Wing commander got abused all to heck as I could set a bunch of concentrate fire and maneuver dials and switch them to Squadron at need meaning the ISD used 4/6 commands as squadron and had concentrate fire at just the right time to nearly one-shot an assault frigate. Activating a Rhymer ball at long distance so they could fire at medium distance was pretty OP and I crawled my ISD up at speed 1.

The rebel fielded Luke and Wedge and the Y wing Hero (way too few) and was going for an activation strategy with 3 corvettes, an MC30 and the assault frigate.

At the end the Assault frigate, MC30, and a CR90 were cindered with another CR90 limping away half dead and the last CR90 shieldless and damaged running for the edges at full clip. I lost the VSD (was finished by 1 blue die lucky shot right before it activated an engineering dial) the Demolisher was badly damaged but still kicking and the ISD had lost just 1 shield and had 1 damage from the assault frigate suicide ramming it in vain.

I guess my long-winded point is that the VSD is still an incredibly viable ship that can be included in a whole bunch of potential scenarios. The Neb B suffers in wave 2 as the case for inclusion over an MC 30 is going to be for a very specialized role or very advanced strategy.

I think Vics are in perfectly good shape, and will remain the workhorses of Imperial fleets well throughout wave 2 meta.

The VSD-I is the HOTNESS when Vader is commanding.

Use tractor beams and spam navigation commands to land that front arc where you need it. Use a few to converge fields of fire.

Can confirm, even the tanky MC-80 can't repel firepower of that magnitude.

The VSD 1 is still point for point the most efficient Imperial carrier.

The VSD 2 is still a great support for the ISD allowing for echelon formations that hem in the opponent into the firepower of the ISD.

No ship has gotten replaced.

completely agree. The sky is not falling. The new upgrades alone are keeping the older ships viable.

Im still going to use my vsds, ill probably only run one isd.. maybe two. Vsd 1s are good for their points.

I never claimed the sky was falling, like I said I think VSDs will get better but it does present a lot of challenges in this wave with being outmaneuvered. So I was curious if when you have a ISD option if people will still be going to the VSDs.

I'm really excited for the ISD it fixes everything I don't like about VSDs. But I do hope that everyone is right and they stay in the game. I mean I have 3 of them, I don't want them to get shelved.

I haven't seen VSDs vs MC80s. However, against an ISD, I've fought that twice, both times with the ISD barely damaged. A Dead VSD and a nearly dead one. (In one case, sufficiently dead that a poor long range VSD shot killed it - the only shot that VSD took) Second time I flew with XI7s, which Really hurts the Empire's ships. Heck anything but a Neb-B doesn't like them!

Interestingly, Neb-Bs would have survived that better than a VSD, because of the dual brace. Ave 8 damage (Vader FTD!) and an accuracy at Medium to take out a brace, vs 4 Damage (not counting the reroll to a Neb-B). Granted both are dead in 2 turns with that damage, but the Neb-B is barely (+0) dead. The VSD is +4 Dead. (Or +0 without XI7)

I've run VSDs primarily as carriers since then. They work well as that and as backup for ISDs.

I've had trouble trying to get VSD-Is into engagement range... especially with Expanded launchers. When it does connect, I can one shot demolishers!

VSD-IIs are not going anywhere. I like using them as escorts for my sullust-prize Imperial Star Destroyer. The torrent of red and blue dice is likely to make short work of any one ship that gets in my way! They may be more expensive but as long as I'm destroying whatever I'm facing, they are worth it.

VSDs can also be configured to cover their own weaknesses. Add Weapons Liaison, Enhanced Arnament and Leading Shots to a VSDII, and then give it 3 TIEs as escorts. 126 points total.

2 of these, and Tarkin handing out tokens and all of a sudden you have a ship that really covers it's own weakness. Sure, it doesn't do stellar damage up front, but it is much harder to flank, re-rolls any number of it's own dice if need be at medium range and regenerates one shield a turn guaranteed thanks to Tarkin's engineering tokens.

Because you can burn Tarkin's engineering token to change the command dial to squadron or focus fire, If you just hand out navigate commands every turn on the dials, and then engineering tokens from Tarkin you have a fleet that is very adaptable to the strategic situation.

or just add Tractor beams for 6 points

or just add Tractor beams for 6 points

I was thinking this. I'll be buying one ISD and one MC80 so I can run tractor beams on the 2xVSDIIs. I may have to trade for a third tractor beam card for my VSDI, as tractor beams are much better in multiples.

Of course we will see how the meta settles.

To me though, in an age of ackbar boosted spacewhales, the VSD is going to be very vulnerable, and unable to bring its main guns into the fight. Add in Xi7s or home one, and they will be taking hull damage on the first volley. You CAN beat space whales at long range with VSDs in wave 1, if you take the right upgrades (Intel officers, gunnery teams, Xi7s etc). But moving forward I fear they will be even less competitive in this kind of fight.

In comparison, the ISD is less points efficient, but faster and quicker to turn, so it can bring its firepower to bear without getting hammered at long range.

Maybe. If played well.

I think the plan with VSD is keep it relatively cheap but take a couple of effective upgrades.

Ideas

- slaved turret and intel officer

- tractor beam

- long range comms and chirenau

- Dominator.

I think VSD 1 is the better ship in this regard. VSD 2 is a big points hike, and it wont be using its blue dice in most circumstances. Even against a big fat broadsiding Mon cal, its going to be the one moving into range first, which means the mon cal is going to rake it twice or even three times before it achieves blue range. Its probably dead by then.

Using 3 VSD-IIs with Gunnery teams + tractors + Motti (or maybe Tarkin?) as a basis, add fighters for flavor. I'd like to try that fleet.

Using 3 VSD-IIs with Gunnery teams + tractors + Motti (or maybe Tarkin?) as a basis, add fighters for flavor. I'd like to try that fleet.

Yeah I like the idea of tractor beaming them for VSDs too, like a slow wall of death:

Imperial - 400

Admiral Screed

ISD II, Avenger, Support Officer, Q-7, Gunnery Team, ECM, SW7 Ion

VSD II, Support Officer, Q-7, Gunnery Team, Overload Pulse

VSD II, Support Officer, Q-7, Gunnery Team, Overload Pulse

Edit: cleaned up the copy and paste.

Vsds with beams will be death to poor assaults they really don't like being stuck at speed 2

But what really does them in is long range bombers (esp rhymer)

Bombers which vsds are quite apt at commanding...

The ISD hunts whales , but they go down HARD to concentrated Akbar

A combination of all 3 may be what it takes to pull out a win

The ISD hunts whales , but they go down HARD to concentrated Akbar

Not disagreeing, but it's worth noting that literally everything goes down hard under concentrated Ackbar-ing.

It's like saying something will go down hard to a double-arced, initiative-having, Screed-ed ACM Demolisher.

I was trying to work,

2x VSD

2x Raider

1x ISD

The idea is the raiders replace the Fighter squads and combat enemy squads. The Three Star destroyers cover each other.

The ISD hunts whales , but they go down HARD to concentrated Akbar

Not disagreeing, but it's worth noting that literally everything goes down hard under concentrated Ackbar-ing.

It's like saying something will go down hard to a double-arced, initiative-having, Screed-ed ACM Demolisher.

das ist true

just pointing out a "size doesn't matter" clause written under Akbar's "laser-to-face" contract

the more points you put onto a single target, the more your opponent gains from melting it down. Given the mechanics behind defense tokens, the ISD/Mon Cal are perhaps the single most vulnerable ships to it

so, while they can give convincing chase and fire off a lot of pain, the heavy firepower they face in return is going to limit a lot of what they can do.

which, imo, simply implies that other things will be needed. A lone ISD will probably be the prime tool in any anti-akbar effort, but the core of the fleet is going to have to be comprised of something else so you're not giving it too much to do.

The ISD hunts whales , but they go down HARD to concentrated Akbar

Not disagreeing, but it's worth noting that literally everything goes down hard under concentrated Ackbar-ing.

It's like saying something will go down hard to a double-arced, initiative-having, Screed-ed ACM Demolisher.

Can I see what a real concentrated Ackbar looks like? And what the list and how it deploys for firing are?