So, I have a decent amount of experience flying an Echo + miniswarm list (6 or 8 months worth), but since Aggressors and especially autothrusters have hit the scene, I have had a lot of trouble using them effectively.

The most commmon problem is losing all of my ties (5 APs, 60 pts worth) and only having 40 pts worth of Phantom left on the table when the match ends.

The problem with this is, in my humble opinion, the point split between the ace and the Ties.

It's not terribly difficult for my opponent to kill 60 points of ties and then flee until we hit the time limit.

That means, in my local Aggressor meta, that I have to manage to kill one Aggressor and take the other one down to half hp to win (which is tremendously difficult to do with 2 ATK ships).

I just recently had the thought to drop one of the APs, and include Dark Curse as a part of the miniswarm along with howl, and upgrade the 2 remaining Aps to obsidians.

My reasoning is this: My ace (~40 pt Vader/Echo/Whisper) + Dark Curse (16 pts) means that after I lose my three easy kills I still have ~56 points left on the table, meaning I have the advantage when we get close to time.

In case nobody remembers, Dark Curse is one of the biggest pains to kill in the game, no matter who he's up against (especially if he is fleeing).

I'm sacrificing some offensive power by dropping a tie, but I think that's more than offset with Howl and having the time-limit point split be in my favor.

Any thoughts from fellow miniswarm players? Am I just dreaming about a meta long gone? Or can/should Dark Curse be a staple of future mini-swarms?

Question: does the EPT Marksmanship flat out nuke Dark Curse?

It's not focus... And it's not a re-roll...

Yes, marksmanship can be used to modify dice against Dark Curse. So can Luke Skywalker Crew, and I'm sure some other things that escape me right now. He's not invincible, just difficult enough to take down that (I hope) he can buy me some time in the point-war games.

Question: does the EPT Marksmanship flat out nuke Dark Curse?

It's not focus... And it's not a re-roll...

Not sure about your meta but I've literally only seen Marksmanship on the table once since I've started playing.

No, Marksmanship isn't really a threat, but Accuracy Corrector would be.

But in lists that use AC (4x cluster tempests) I'm not so worried about the game going to time.

In my head at least, using Dark Curse seems like a solid plan.

If you can spare the points anywhere, a stealth device or hull upgrade would be fun on Dark Curse. I like the stealth device on him myself... just cause it bugs the guys I fly him against even more.

Is anyone else puzzled by this post? I think Dark Curse's ability to survive is frequently overrated. If you are rolling 3 attack dice it is still likely that you will get a 1 damage through each time you attack unless DC has F+E every time.

I'm not saying DC is bad, mind you. But in this example, I think I'd rather have 5xAP instead of 3xAP+DC, especially against Brobots that potentially have HLC/Manglers.

At least where I play, the metagame is almost entirely Dash/Corran and Brobots. WIth my Echo/Miniswarm list, I almost always lose by the match going to time.

I'm just playing with an idea to be able to bring my miniswarm list back, because I was forced to retire it when I stopped winning any matches.

I thought Dark Curse might help me to keep >50 points on the table without sacrificing too much in the way of firepower.

It has the added bonus of bumping up the tie's pilot skill to 3+, so I can shoot before TLT Y wings.

IG88-B's ability doesn't really care about Dark Curse. They'll throw enough dice at him that it doesn't matter if the dice are modified or not. You'd probably be better off with Backstabber or Black Squads with Crackshot. They are at least more likely to put some damage onto an Aggressor.

I'm normally not a Dark Curse fan, but for the OP's purposes, I think it works. Another thought for the OP, what about VI Mauler Mithel instead of Howl? He's an interesting sort of thorn in the side of Aggressors because he's PS9 and is really nasty in a close in fight against them. This would favor a loose swarm instead of formation flying, so it hits a little less hard than Howl, but has more blocking chances.

In the Aggressor Scenario, IG-88B is my first target, and my Dark Curse is the Brobot player's last target. In theory, I can take out B before we get down to Dark Curse.

I'm intruiged by the Mauler idea, but It'll take some practice on my part; Mauler hasn't hit my table in almost 2 years.

That PS 9 can come in pretty useful. He's not an Ace, per se, but he can make Aces be a little more careful. Combined with blocks from lower PS pilots, he can be pretty dangerous for the points.

could take backstabber as another increased attack die option. although if lots of people are using agressors wouldn't it be better to take higher attack ships instead of trying to fix ace+ mini-swarm?

I think the reasoning for taking Dark Curse in this situation is sound, and in that meta is a pretty good idea I think.

Not going to lie, 2 attack ships are obsolete unless you can field 7-8 of them. It's been my experience that a wad of 4 Academies is useless unless you're facing non-Fat turret 1-2 agility ships, or the Decimator.

They simply lack the ability to get through the wall of damage mitigation that an Aggressor or Super Corran can put up. They can't really touch Soontir either because you don't have enough numbers to easily bump him and then actually bring firepower to bear on him.

I tried Super Corran and 4 Talas before. Talas were a waste of god **** points. Better off with another dumb super ship. >_>

7-8 ships can do well, just not 3-4 slapped into a list. Better off with an FCS B-Wing than 2 Z's. Better to have one attack that can actually hit than 2 attacks that can't hit.

Question: does the EPT Marksmanship flat out nuke Dark Curse?

It's not focus... And it's not a re-roll...

Not sure about your meta but I've literally only seen Marksmanship on the table once since I've started playing.

I use it on my favourite Corran build:

Corran, R2D2, FCS, Marksmanship

Try this a few times vs Aggressors, it has worked very well for me in the past,

In this case, the consistency of your attacks outweigh that extra TIE, imho, and apart from simultaneous fire vs VI IGs, having Swarm Tactics against Rebel Captive is always nice.

"Echo" — TIE Phantom 30
Veteran Instincts 1
Fire-Control System 2
Recon Specialist 3
Advanced Cloaking Device 4
Ship Total: 40

"Howlrunner" — TIE Fighter 18
Swarm Tactics 2
Hull Upgrade 3
Ship Total: 23

Academy Pilot — TIE Fighter 12
Ship Total: 12

Academy Pilot — TIE Fighter 12
Ship Total: 12

Academy Pilot — TIE Fighter 12
Ship Total: 12

Not going to lie, 2 attack ships are obsolete unless you can field 7-8 of them. It's been my experience that a wad of 4 Academies is useless unless you're facing non-Fat turret 1-2 agility ships, or the Decimator.

I wouldn't say they are completely obsolete, but I'd agree that the Mini-swarm isn't as good a thing as it was; blocking ships can be a lot harder now things like BB-8, Segnors Loops, Talon Rolls and Lightning Reflexes are a thing.

You can work with a small, elite swarm, but you need to plan for getting through people's defenses. The two most important things for this recently in my experience are Crack Shot and Juke; things that can impact your opponent's defence rolls. Howlrunner is as good as she always was but equally can't be the lynchpin of a list anymore because she's too easy to kill before the rest of the swarm fires, but a mob of black or omega squadron pilots with these talents are a lot harder to dodge than their primary weapon score would suggest.

I've seen it said that swarm ships are basically the pawns of X-Wing. The thing is, pawns can cover each other and one hit kill everything they attack.

Academy TIEs, Bandits and Bananas can all cover each other and other friendly ships well, and do terrible things to enemy ships through blocking and action denial, but their killing power isn't quite up there with the humble pawn.

I've never really been convinced by half-and-half lists, to be honest. An ace and a mini swarm makes the ace one hell of a priority target (the exception to that particular rule may be Xizor). YMMV, but in my opinion better to go all in, with multi-ace/threat lists or full swarm.

trying to hurt Double IGs with ties is like hitting a tungsten plated pinata with a greased rubber chicken. it's the entire reason the tie swarm has died off in the UK at least. DC and 3 ties will have exactly the same effect as 5 ties - your own death

EDIT: hilarious analogy shamelessly stolen from a friend.

With regards to modifying dice against Dark Curse, Poe's ability will also kick in to change a focus to a hit.

Edit: Also I think the decline of the TIE swarm in competitive play started long before the Aggressors were released.

Dark Curse is an effective tool to prevent your opponent from earning any points, but rarely does he pay back the points you've invested in him. Backstabber may go down, but a 16-point, 3-attack (usually) PS6 pilot makes Backstabber a far better choice over Dark Curse in terms of efficacy.

Don't get me wrong -- I love Dark Curse (see avatar). He is one of the most hilarious pilots in the game and can be hell on Earth for an opponent obsessed with wiping tables. Where he doesn't excel, though, is cleaning up when he's inevitably the last alive. In today's game 2 attack dice just aren't going to cut it, and eventually unmodified attack rolls are going to win against unmodified defense rolls. It's an unfortunate state of affairs for an awesome pilot.

Hell, even Night Beast might be a better option at this point since they errata'd his pilot ability.

At least where I play, the metagame is almost entirely Dash/Corran and Brobots. WIth my Echo/Miniswarm list, I almost always lose by the match going to time.

I'm just playing with an idea to be able to bring my miniswarm list back, because I was forced to retire it when I stopped winning any matches.

I thought Dark Curse might help me to keep >50 points on the table without sacrificing too much in the way of firepower.

It has the added bonus of bumping up the tie's pilot skill to 3+, so I can shoot before TLT Y wings.

Dash/corran and Brobots are weak against the same kind of lists - stress and high PS arc dodgers. Throw your list out and try something new.

Try this:

- BTL-A4 Y-Wing

Really strong all around vs dash/corran and dual IG's. Not really weak against anything in particular. Also very fun to fly. Fight that meta!

glitterstim..

it's good and a common upgrade on IG-88 (or Biggy and Ciggy, as I like to call mine).

the idea of carrying 56p to the endgame is sound, it's just that dark curse is far from invincible and still only throws 2 dice.

if specifically the IGs are your problem, I'd invest more in offense than defense; in your list try backstabber or mauler instead.

also - blocking with the ties does wonders; even 2 red dice hurt the 3 green once you have no actions (if no adv.sensors).

Hell, even Night Beast might be a better option at this point since they errata'd his pilot ability.

Minor nitpick: Night Beast's ability didn't get errata'd. The new rules changed the timing of when to check for stress when performing maneuvers.