Couldn't you on paper vaporize a PS 2 TLT Y-Wing reliably with 4 focused Sigma Squadron shots before it could shoot back?

Couldn't you on paper vaporize a PS 2 TLT Y-Wing reliably with 4 focused Sigma Squadron shots before it could shoot back?

And then most likely lose a sigma to the return fire yes

I actually want to kind of try this:

Echo

Predator

ACD

Sensor Jammer

Thinking Recon Spec as well.

Phantoms lost their forgiving reactionary ability that turned them into the broken king of Wave 4, and were abandoned en masse by people who rely on the internet for their squad building. The Phantom no longer forgives you for anything. Like the Aggressor, it's a ship that rewards you hugely if you're good with it, and you die if you're not.

As much as you seem to hate them, the main reason Phantom popularity has dropped is that 4 agi (and a possible token for defense) performs too inconsistently over the course of an entire tournament.

Liking your list too HoundsTooth. Which pilots/upgrades do you run?

I'm running two lists at the moment -

• Carnor Jax + PtL + RGT + Autothrusters + Shield Upgrade
• Echo + VI + Sensor Jammer + Recon Specialist + ACD
• Dark Curse + Stealth Device

List runs at 96pts for initiative bid. The other list (ironically the first one I came up with, but I think I enjoy flying a little more!) -

• Soontir Fel + PtL + RGT + Autothrusters + Stealth Device
• Whisper + VI + FCS + Rebel Captive + ACD
• Mauler Mithel + VI + Stealth Device

98pts, though I am looking at getting it down to 97pts to try and guarantee initiative. Considering switching out Rebel Captive for Tactician on Whisper.

Liking your list too HoundsTooth. Which pilots/upgrades do you run?

I'm running two lists at the moment -

• Carnor Jax + PtL + RGT + Autothrusters + Shield Upgrade
• Echo + VI + Sensor Jammer + Recon Specialist + ACD
• Dark Curse + Stealth Device

List runs at 96pts for initiative bid. The other list (ironically the first one I came up with, but I think I enjoy flying a little more!) -

• Soontir Fel + PtL + RGT + Autothrusters + Stealth Device
• Whisper + VI + FCS + Rebel Captive + ACD
• Mauler Mithel + VI + Stealth Device

98pts, though I am looking at getting it down to 97pts to try and guarantee initiative. Considering switching out Rebel Captive for Tactician on Whisper.

I think Rebel Captive for Tactician would be an excellent switch. Whisper's PS and De-Cloak should give you ample opportunity to maintain Range 2 for Tactician's ability.

Alternatively, if you want maximum maneuverability information (and the ability to piss in your opponent's Maneuveri-Os) you could swap Captive for Intelligence Agent and slap a 2-point EPT on Mauler.

Speaking of Mauler, I'm not so sure Stealth Device is the way to go on him. Of course you've used this build so you know better, but I'm very aggressive with Mauler. I use him for two things:

1. Action denial for high PS aces via bumping
2. Hopefully he will force a bump while maintaining Range 1 on some poor sap

This creates a situation where, more often than not, Mauler is Range 1 with someone else that also usually has a shot. I don't know that Stealth Device will last that much longer against Range 1 face blasts. Personally, I like Mauler with Predator and no Modification. This would also drop a point from your list and allow you to keep Rebel Captive on Whisper if you so choose.

Liking your list too HoundsTooth. Which pilots/upgrades do you run?

I'm running two lists at the moment -

• Carnor Jax + PtL + RGT + Autothrusters + Shield Upgrade
• Echo + VI + Sensor Jammer + Recon Specialist + ACD
• Dark Curse + Stealth Device

List runs at 96pts for initiative bid. The other list (ironically the first one I came up with, but I think I enjoy flying a little more!) -

• Soontir Fel + PtL + RGT + Autothrusters + Stealth Device
• Whisper + VI + FCS + Rebel Captive + ACD
• Mauler Mithel + VI + Stealth Device

98pts, though I am looking at getting it down to 97pts to try and guarantee initiative. Considering switching out Rebel Captive for Tactician on Whisper.

That Whisper is brutal! I lost to that recently. It took out 2 TLT Thugs and Bossk almost single handed. I got it to 1 Hull but couldn't finish it.

Nice to see some love for Mauler. I agree with ArdusKaine, Mauler + Predator is good.

Oooh that's heartening. I just tried it against a 4 TLT.

I couldn't nail the approach fast enough and at range 3, it got smashed.

Good tips, thanks guys.

You probably don't want to approach them head on and also before other of your ships are also in range.

Have the Phantom run along the edge out of range and approach the TLT from the sides or behind after you have slow rolled some of your other ships head on.

The best timing to zoom in with the phantom is when they will have to turn eventually to avoid asteroids or your other ships.

I'm favouring a 3-ship build now:

Fel PTL RGP Targeting Computer AT

Whisper VI FCS ACD Recon Spec

Colzet Title Autocorrector

I have issues trying to close into range fast, might be just out of practice

The reason for this style of build is that...I like Phantoms

Fel is there to help with turret builds (performing very well)

Colzet because I can't think of a better way to spend 23 points

Wouldn't Colzet synergize better with FCD instead of Autocorrector?

It's a mixed bag, FCS lets Colzet take an evade but gives you a free TL. AutoC allows him (?) to deal sligtly more damage and but has to spend his action on TL.

Funny thing, my opponent drew the crit that lowers his attack value and Colzet turned one of his face up cards to that same crit. I kept doing it over the course of the game even after he flipped it down and Han dealt next to no damage.

In terms of Phantoms 'breaking' the game... As a Phantom lover I feel the same way about fat turrets. But, it gives you an incentive to learn how to beat them!

I can beat them, but I hate that I have to take specific things to beat them. I feel that there are such hard counters you have to take that it stifles variety. I understand I'm in the minority.

In terms of Phantoms 'breaking' the game... As a Phantom lover I feel the same way about fat turrets. But, it gives you an incentive to learn how to beat them!

I can beat them, but I hate that I have to take specific things to beat them. I feel that there are such hard counters you have to take that it stifles variety. I understand I'm in the minority.

No, I know exactly how you feel heychadwick. When they first dropped I felt the same way about having to take autothrusters to guard against turrets... Though since some of the 'fatter' turrets have disappeared somewhat I've discovered they're still golden if you can learn to judge your range three distances!

This creates a situation where, more often than not, Mauler is Range 1 with someone else that also usually has a shot. I don't know that Stealth Device will last that much longer against Range 1 face blasts. Personally, I like Mauler with Predator and no Modification. This would also drop a point from your list and allow you to keep Rebel Captive on Whisper if you so choose.

I'm looking at alternatives to Stealth at the moment, but I'm only looking at swapping it out for another modification. VI is too important in the list as I rely on three PS9 pilots and Mauler at PS9 does far more damage I've found than Mauler at PS7! I'm considering Target Lock for the same reasons you prefer Predator. Mauler rolling four red dice with re-rolls would compliment Whisper doing the same (FCS!). My main concern though is the fact I'm looking to get him at range one and that's a lot of hurt to take if the opponent gets to return fire. For that reason I'm also looking at Hull upgrade - the choice in that regard is four green dice versus three green and four hit points. On a good day, I'd rather roll three greens to be honest. And extra Hull still means I can be one-shotted by an HLC before I even get into range one! Decisions, decisions...

Soontir + Whisper do not belong in the same list. While both are great ships one wants initiative and one does not. They are counterproductive to each other.

Ahhhh that is a fantastic point. I played a couple of games against Han, and I had a nagging feeling something was not right. Thanks for the protip.

I kinda disagree with this. If you happen to lose the bid it gives your opponent a pretty difficult decision on whether to take initiative or give it to you. If you are playing with a bid of like 98 points where you know you'll get to make the choice, then I suppose you are correct.

(also generic TIE/ph will be experiencing a renaissance soon I think, especially ACD Shadows. One of those in a list with Sensor Jammer, plus or minus your choice of Crew, leaves a lot of room for the rest of the list and trumps every TLT generic. The rest of your squad can be a swarm or some Aces and try to counter Fel/Whisper/Vader or be Fel/Whisper/Vader)

Yeah, I'm a recent convert to Shadow Squadron + Sensor Jammer + Adv Cloaking Device. (I'm running it next to Fel and a Palpatine shuttle). It can tear enormous chunks out of PS1-4 generics, including TLTs. Faced with a higher PS opponent, it can't tank, but it has so much firepower that opponents have to take it seriously anyway--which creates an opening for the rest of the list.

I also find that more than any other ship, there are often games if you make one mistake, it's game over. The Phantom has a harsh edge to the game that stifles variety.

I feel like this is true whether you're playing with the Phantom or against the Phantom, though. I've absolutely lost games that were great for me on paper because I made a single early mistake with my Phantom.

Phantoms lost their forgiving reactionary ability that turned them into the broken king of Wave 4, and were abandoned en masse by people who rely on the internet for their squad building. The Phantom no longer forgives you for anything. Like the Aggressor, it's a ship that rewards you hugely if you're good with it, and you die if you're not.

Yup, but with added emphasis on my frustration with people who rely on the Internet to do their list-building for them.

So. I burned down Whisper easily twice this week with Guri 2Y[TLT-R4] and Z.

Seems like Whisper needs Sensor Jammer or something extra to not blow up to TLT.

Also, are there any tourneys atm that use the old damage deck? Cuz I think it would depress TLT chances slightly.

--

Also, what does everyone think about this: "Whisper isn't a late-game clean-up tool vs the best meta-lists. She's a heavy hitter tool for midgame that dies."

I find there's a bunch of things that can really wipe Whisper out still. VI Poe, VI Corran, VI Vader are all a pain to deal with.

What have you paired Whisper with? Or tripled.

Anything that gets PS advantage over a Phantom is a pain to deal with, it's that ship's Achilles heel and it takes incredible skill and self control to know when it's right to just freaking re-cloak. Nothing beats the Phantom in maneuverability and as long as the person with PS over you isn't a fat turret packing gunner, just recloaking and waiting for a more opportune time to engage will win you games. The Phantom has turned from the idiot's ticket to a first place finish into the thinker's tool of precision. The Phantom can be flown mediocre in a match where it has the PS advantage and still perform admirably, however it is in situations where you are at a PS disadvantage that the smarter player can still make the Phantom dance for them.

Anything that gets PS advantage over a Phantom is a pain to deal with, it's that ship's Achilles heel and it takes incredible skill and self control to know when it's right to just freaking re-cloak. Nothing beats the Phantom in maneuverability and as long as the person with PS over you isn't a fat turret packing gunner, just recloaking and waiting for a more opportune time to engage will win you games. The Phantom has turned from the idiot's ticket to a first place finish into the thinker's tool of precision. The Phantom can be flown mediocre in a match where it has the PS advantage and still perform admirably, however it is in situations where you are at a PS disadvantage that the smarter player can still make the Phantom dance for them.

This is on point. The only thing that I would add is the importance of knowing when to not decloak. If you know you're about to take a shot from a higher PS ship, simply re cloaking isn't enough. You'll need something to modify those green dice, so spending your action on a focus token will keep you alive until a better engagement presents itself.

Anything that gets PS advantage over a Phantom is a pain to deal with, it's that ship's Achilles heel and it takes incredible skill and self control to know when it's right to just freaking re-cloak. Nothing beats the Phantom in maneuverability and as long as the person with PS over you isn't a fat turret packing gunner, just recloaking and waiting for a more opportune time to engage will win you games. The Phantom has turned from the idiot's ticket to a first place finish into the thinker's tool of precision. The Phantom can be flown mediocre in a match where it has the PS advantage and still perform admirably, however it is in situations where you are at a PS disadvantage that the smarter player can still make the Phantom dance for them.

This is on point. The only thing that I would add is the importance of knowing when to not decloak. If you know you're about to take a shot from a higher PS ship, simply re cloaking isn't enough. You'll need something to modify those green dice, so spending your action on a focus token will keep you alive until a better engagement presents itself.

Also a good point that I forgot to mention.

That's one of my favourite things to do with a Phantom (they're so good for mind games): just don't decloak. Make a strategic move, Focus, and set yourself up for a brutal following turn. Played right that one move can win the game.

I guess I'll raise you for, attacks every turn.

There were tons of phantoms at nova. Top tables too.

This.

Something like 3 of Top 5 lists in Swiss had Whisper. 2nd place had Whisper + Kenkirk.

Whisper is a great pilot in general when there are less PS9+ Turrets or Decimators + Rebel Captive.

.... I took a 4 generic X-wing list against one. Unless he makes a mistake, you just can't win... The Phantom has a harsh edge to the game that stifles variety.

You seemed confused about what your argument point is. Phantoms beat low pilot skill generic X 4 lists but you come to the opposite conclusion. Phantoms increase list diversity seems the more logical conclusion.

Yea I'm still surprised at the lack of whisper. I think it's a combination of the nerf (which really wasn't that bad, especialy if you take intel), along with the adanced fix to make vader more viable, and auto thrusters on fel to make him even more deadly.

That being said, of those 3 aces whisper still scares me the most since I rarely run lists with high PS ships, which means whisper can single handily take out my whole squad.

Yea I'm still surprised at the lack of whisper. I think it's a combination of the nerf (which really wasn't that bad, especialy if you take intel), along with the adanced fix to make vader more viable, and auto thrusters on fel to make him even more deadly.

That being said, of those 3 aces whisper still scares me the most since I rarely run lists with high PS ships, which means whisper can single handily take out my whole squad.

Yeah that's the magnificence of Whisper! If you kill of the opponent Ace or Turret, it's all downhill for him.

That said, the hard counter is pretty easy - just out-PS him. So I guess in a way this a way of expressing your meta-view.

If you expect very few low-PS go Whisper.

Judging from the Nova lists, I'm surprised at the prevalence of Phantoms - need to do more thinking about it.

How would a Phantom list deal with a Fel/Vader/Palpatine shuttle?

Maybe blocking Vader and Fel? Seems to me like The major threat to Vader, Fel and Palpatine builds.

On another topic, I am looking forward to the Inquisitor hitting the table. His reasonable pricing for the punch he carries, may open points for a Whisper, Inquisitor, Palpatine list.