What was new about the Death Star that wasn't related to old tech that was scaled up?

By that logic, lasers that punch through shields are still lasers. It's old tech.

In Armada, Luke Skywalker's X-Wing ignores shields. Just saying.

I could see it in X-Wing, but it wouldn't/shouldn't be a common thing. Maybe a unique title, expensive pilot ability, or a VERY expensive upgrade. And even if we DO see that ability it can't be 100% shield ignoring. It'd have to be like 1 damage goes through shields, not all damage.

Oh I'm all for ships in this game ignoring shields in one way or another. It's what makes proton bombs and advanced homing missiles so scary, just the threat is enough to make your opponent fly a certain way.

"He strode between the long lines of TIE Fighters, all of which were being refitted with stronger weapons of new design. These would be able to punch through energy shields and starfighter hulls with a single blast, which mean the one advantage starfighters had over TIEs, their shielding, would vanish."

They use the term "Starfighter" to mean any rebel starfighter.

The only thing new about these Laser cannons is the process in which they are built and that the part used are smaller than other powerful Laser cannons used by IMPs.

The SFS L-s9.3 Laser cannons used on TIE Avengers, Defenders, and Interceptors already one shot kill all rebel fighters, even B-Wings. The diffrence between these new Laser cannons and the 9.3s is also their output. The new one "could" one shot kill reb fighters but that's not a 100% sure thing since not everything under the hull armour is fragile and explosive. The 9.3 not only vaporise A-wings and X-Wings, in one volly they cause serious damge to cap ship armour.

What kind of Star Trek crap just invaded Star Wars? There's no way to simply ignore shields. Period. Shield tech has been around for thousands of years, all the countermeasures for bypassing shielding craft would have been devised long ago. There's no 'matching frequencies' or 'modulating shields' BS.

The only way I can see upgraded weapons 'ignoring' shields is to basically put out ally more firepower than necessary and to overwhelm the shields in one shot, basically cranking the attack dice to 5 (or 11 for you Spinal Tap fans).

What kind of Star Trek crap just invaded Star Wars? There's no way to simply ignore shields. Period. Shield tech has been around for thousands of years, all the countermeasures for bypassing shielding craft would have been devised long ago.

By that logic, no new technologies could ever be created in Star Wars.

Exactly. It's not Star Trek, it's not science fiction. It's fantasy, all the conflict comes from character interaction concerning politics, religion, ethics and morality, and philosophy. The technology of Star Wars is all about being 'transparent' to the story. The only time'new' technology enters the story is in the form of super weapons and that's just a difference in scale.

There's no teleporting or stargates and I don't want them!

Um the tech in SW is always evolving and going through periods of revolation. The Composite Super Laser is not just an upscaled weapon, tech wise. Every aspect of the SW tech is evolving because of the constant conflicts between the factions in the sw universe. Because of mas of resources they have most 1st power groups are constantly uping the capabilities of their weapons and equipment. Its a never ending race to have the most powerful weapons, most powerful targeting computers, most powerful shields, most powerful CM, most powerful ecm, most powerful eccm, and everything else I didn't mention.

"He strode between the long lines of TIE Fighters, all of which were being refitted with stronger weapons of new design. These would be able to punch through energy shields and starfighter hulls with a single blast, which mean the one advantage starfighters had over TIEs, their shielding, would vanish."

They use the term "Starfighter" to mean any rebel starfighter.

The only thing new about these Laser cannons is the process in which they are built and that the part used are smaller than other powerful Laser cannons used by IMPs.

The SFS L-s9.3 Laser cannons used on TIE Avengers, Defenders, and Interceptors already one shot kill all rebel fighters, even B-Wings. The diffrence between these new Laser cannons and the 9.3s is also their output. The new one "could" one shot kill reb fighters but that's not a 100% sure thing since not everything under the hull armour is fragile and explosive. The 9.3 not only vaporise A-wings and X-Wings, in one volly they cause serious damge to cap ship armour.

What was said above. The new weapons are not ignoreing the shields, they are being able to punch through. Think of the shields like modern body armor. They have been using 9mm. But now they have been upgraded to 7.62 Armor pericing rounds.

There is also an example in (shudder) Episode 1. The destroyer droids shields can take contstant blaster fire no problem, but when hit by the weapons of an N-1 starfighter, POP, 1 shot. The shot's are not ignoreing the shields, but are strong enough to punch straight through.

"He strode between the long lines of TIE Fighters, all of which were being refitted with stronger weapons of new design. These would be able to punch through energy shields and starfighter hulls with a single blast, which mean the one advantage starfighters had over TIEs, their shielding, would vanish."

They use the term "Starfighter" to mean any rebel starfighter.

The only thing new about these Laser cannons is the process in which they are built and that the part used are smaller than other powerful Laser cannons used by IMPs.

The SFS L-s9.3 Laser cannons used on TIE Avengers, Defenders, and Interceptors already one shot kill all rebel fighters, even B-Wings. The diffrence between these new Laser cannons and the 9.3s is also their output. The new one "could" one shot kill reb fighters but that's not a 100% sure thing since not everything under the hull armour is fragile and explosive. The 9.3 not only vaporise A-wings and X-Wings, in one volly they cause serious damge to cap ship armour.

What kind of Star Trek crap just invaded Star Wars? There's no way to simply ignore shields. Period. Shield tech has been around for thousands of years, all the countermeasures for bypassing shielding craft would have been devised long ago. There's no 'matching frequencies' or 'modulating shields' BS.

The only way I can see upgraded weapons 'ignoring' shields is to basically put out ally more firepower than necessary and to overwhelm the shields in one shot, basically cranking the attack dice to 5 (or 11 for you Spinal Tap fans).

What kind of Star Trek crap just invaded Star Wars? There's no way to simply ignore shields. Period. Shield tech has been around for thousands of years, all the countermeasures for bypassing shielding craft would have been devised long ago.

By that logic, no new technologies could ever be created in Star Wars.

Exactly. It's not Star Trek, it's not science fiction. It's fantasy, all the conflict comes from character interaction concerning politics, religion, ethics and morality, and philosophy. The technology of Star Wars is all about being 'transparent' to the story. The only time'new' technology enters the story is in the form of super weapons and that's just a difference in scale.

There's no teleporting or stargates and I don't want them!

Um the tech in SW is always evolving and going through periods of revolation. The Composite Super Laser is not just an upscaled weapon, tech wise. Every aspect of the SW tech is evolving because of the constant conflicts between the factions in the sw universe. Because of mas of resources they have most 1st power groups are constantly uping the capabilities of their weapons and equipment. Its a never ending race to have the most powerful weapons, most powerful targeting computers, most powerful shields, most powerful CM, most powerful ecm, most powerful eccm, and everything else I didn't mention.

As far as I can tell the tech in SW has for the most part matured into the most efficient state that is possible and no further research is being done on wholely new technologies or science. Blasters don't seem to have changed in over 60 years, hyperdrives are the same, mile long capital ships have been present in all eras, cloning and medical technology has seemed to have achieved a stable point of being reliable enough to program droids to treat patients and raise entire armies of obedient soldiers. Artificial intelligence is so ubiquitous and robotics so advanced that even a farm boy on a backwater world can repair a droid's arm that has been completely severed.

Design aesthetics seem to change and 'evolve' from era to era, with the artisans and craftsman of the Old Republic replaced by automated assembly lines and off the rack parts. Style gave way to function and utility. Computers can be purchased to serve any income or purpose. If you want top of the line then you spend the money, if not, you buy the best you can. Pilots have been using targeting computers to hit enemy starfighters for millenia before the battle of Naboo, and that's plenty of time to perfect those computers. (On a side note, it's absurd that pilots use their own eyes looking out cockpit windows to fly starfighters when it's obvious that artificial intelligence and multispectrum cameras would do much better...no need for a human restricted reaction speed)

Any kind of tech you want can be had with a price, it's already been invented and perfected long ago, you just have to find someone who makes it or who can change something already extant to your needs.

Exactly. It's not Star Trek, it's not science fiction. It's fantasy, all the conflict comes from character interaction concerning politics, religion, ethics and morality, and philosophy. The technology of Star Wars is all about being 'transparent' to the story. The only time'new' technology enters the story is in the form of super weapons and that's just a difference in scale.

Right. There's no new technologies except the ones that the entire plots the original trilogy revolve around.

It's all about those politics, ethics and philosophy! Like in those prequels everyone loves so much.

The problem with the prequels wasn't the politics, ethics, and philosophy. It was the stilted dialogue, clumsy exposition, poor direction, and over-reliance on special effects.

The SFS L-s9.3 Laser cannons used on TIE Avengers, Defenders, and Interceptors already one shot kill all rebel fighters, even B-Wings.

No, they don't.

The 9.3 not only vaporise A-wings and X-Wings, in one volly they cause serious damge to cap ship armour.

No, they don't.

Um the tech in SW is always evolving and going through periods of revolation. The Composite Super Laser is not just an upscaled weapon, tech wise. Every aspect of the SW tech is evolving because of the constant conflicts between the factions in the sw universe. Because of mas of resources they have most 1st power groups are constantly uping the capabilities of their weapons and equipment. Its a never ending race to have the most powerful weapons, most powerful targeting computers, most powerful shields, most powerful CM, most powerful ecm, most powerful eccm, and everything else I didn't mention.

That's the point GrimmyV was trying to make: that's what it should look like, according to every historical model of technical innovation. What it actually looks like is thousands of years of stasis in the most fundamental technologies, like blasters, shields, lightsabers, starship drives.

The problem with the prequels wasn't the politics, ethics, and philosophy.

Completely disagree. Every moment spent on politics in those films was terrible. And one could argue that the midichlorian nonsense falls under philosophy. And then there's the ethics behind your peaceful monk order leading your government's armies in battle.

Those 3 things were HUGE parts of the problems with those movies.

Heavy handed, not terrible. And given it's target audience the ethics, politics and philosophy cannot be blamed for being heavy handed. So no problems there.

Nope. Painful dialogue is the worst of it. I'd even forgive Hayden Christensen. I'd draw the line at Jar Jar Binks though...

"He strode between the long lines of TIE Fighters, all of which were being refitted with stronger weapons of new design. These would be able to punch through energy shields and starfighter hulls with a single blast, which mean the one advantage starfighters had over TIEs, their shielding, would vanish."

They use the term "Starfighter" to mean any rebel starfighter.

The only thing new about these Laser cannons is the process in which they are built and that the part used are smaller than other powerful Laser cannons used by IMPs.

The SFS L-s9.3 Laser cannons used on TIE Avengers, Defenders, and Interceptors already one shot kill all rebel fighters, even B-Wings. The diffrence between these new Laser cannons and the 9.3s is also their output. The new one "could" one shot kill reb fighters but that's not a 100% sure thing since not everything under the hull armour is fragile and explosive. The 9.3 not only vaporise A-wings and X-Wings, in one volly they cause serious damge to cap ship armour.

What kind of Star Trek crap just invaded Star Wars? There's no way to simply ignore shields. Period. Shield tech has been around for thousands of years, all the countermeasures for bypassing shielding craft would have been devised long ago. There's no 'matching frequencies' or 'modulating shields' BS.

The only way I can see upgraded weapons 'ignoring' shields is to basically put out ally more firepower than necessary and to overwhelm the shields in one shot, basically cranking the attack dice to 5 (or 11 for you Spinal Tap fans).

What kind of Star Trek crap just invaded Star Wars? There's no way to simply ignore shields. Period. Shield tech has been around for thousands of years, all the countermeasures for bypassing shielding craft would have been devised long ago.

By that logic, no new technologies could ever be created in Star Wars.

Exactly. It's not Star Trek, it's not science fiction. It's fantasy, all the conflict comes from character interaction concerning politics, religion, ethics and morality, and philosophy. The technology of Star Wars is all about being 'transparent' to the story. The only time'new' technology enters the story is in the form of super weapons and that's just a difference in scale.

There's no teleporting or stargates and I don't want them!

Um the tech in SW is always evolving and going through periods of revolation. The Composite Super Laser is not just an upscaled weapon, tech wise. Every aspect of the SW tech is evolving because of the constant conflicts between the factions in the sw universe. Because of mas of resources they have most 1st power groups are constantly uping the capabilities of their weapons and equipment. Its a never ending race to have the most powerful weapons, most powerful targeting computers, most powerful shields, most powerful CM, most powerful ecm, most powerful eccm, and everything else I didn't mention.

As far as I can tell the tech in SW has for the most part matured into the most efficient state that is possible and no further research is being done on wholely new technologies or science. Blasters don't seem to have changed in over 60 years, hyperdrives are the same, mile long capital ships have been present in all eras, cloning and medical technology has seemed to have achieved a stable point of being reliable enough to program droids to treat patients and raise entire armies of obedient soldiers. Artificial intelligence is so ubiquitous and robotics so advanced that even a farm boy on a backwater world can repair a droid's arm that has been completely severed.

Design aesthetics seem to change and 'evolve' from era to era, with the artisans and craftsman of the Old Republic replaced by automated assembly lines and off the rack parts. Style gave way to function and utility. Computers can be purchased to serve any income or purpose. If you want top of the line then you spend the money, if not, you buy the best you can. Pilots have been using targeting computers to hit enemy starfighters for millenia before the battle of Naboo, and that's plenty of time to perfect those computers. (On a side note, it's absurd that pilots use their own eyes looking out cockpit windows to fly starfighters when it's obvious that artificial intelligence and multispectrum cameras would do much better...no need for a human restricted reaction speed)

Any kind of tech you want can be had with a price, it's already been invented and perfected long ago, you just have to find someone who makes it or who can change something already extant to your needs.

I like to think of it as the screwdriver scenario. Screws were invented back in the middle ages, but the screw driver wasn't invented until 300 years later, keep in mind that screws were in widespread use the whole time, you just used coins or pieces of wood or something to screw it in. Star Wars may be in a similar situation. If certain technologies are incredibly ubiquitous and commonplace, they may never think to use them in a completely different fashion than we do. Technology is as much of a cultural thing as it is technology. The rice steps of China are mostly unchanged and will continue to be unchanged because they have had thousands of years to perfect the techniques used in their cultivation and growth. Why fix what isn't broken? I think this seems to apply to a lot of Star Wars Tech. Until you have a good reason to build something new most vehicles, starships and what not are all pretty much renovations of existing and tried and true technology. Heck, from an astronauts perspective you would want the most reliable and easiest to maintain technology possible if you are potentially stranded in the middle of space with zero chance of saving, which seems to be an embodiment of star wars tech, so much that hunks of junk can run for generations.

Wow. That's... Probably the best explanation for Star Wars Tech I've ever actually seen.

Way to go, dude.

The problem with the prequels wasn't the politics, ethics, and philosophy.

Completely disagree. Every moment spent on politics in those films was terrible.

Sure, they were. But that's because they were bad, boring movies, not because they were movies that emphasized politics.

And one could argue that the midichlorian nonsense falls under philosophy.

I prefer to leave it filed under "nonsense".

And then there's the ethics behind your peaceful monk order leading your government's armies in battle.

Right! Just why were the pacifist Jedi serving as generals in the Clone Wars? It turns out it's a collision between politics and philosophies.

The idea of a nominally pacifist creed being adopted by a group of warriors isn't impossible: look at the sōhei of feudal Japan. And it's actually less of a stretch for Jedi than for Buddhists, since the use of the Force for defense is already baked into the Jedi Code.

What Palpatine did is exert some political, moral, and philosophical jiu-jitsu. By engineering the conflicts that led to the Clone Wars, he maneuvered the Jedi into a position where they, for reasons defensible within their philosophy, became increasingly committed to the martial applications of the Force. By doing so, he changed the public perception of the Jedi from peaceful, meditative scholar-monks to a group of super-powered soldiers. But he also changed the self-conception of many Jedi in the same way--especially young Jedi who came of age at the end of the Republic. That led to internal conflict and dissent among Jedi about how to prosecute the war (and even whether to do so), and inevitably from there to aggression and anger that clouded their relationship to the Force.

Again, the problem with the prequels isn't that they tell stories about politics (and economics), ethics, and philosophy. The problem is that they tell badly constructed stories, and they don't tell the stories very well. The content is irrelevant.

Note that the Jedi code says they are "guardians of peace in the galaxy" that does not mean or imply that they are pacifists, possible just the opposite. And as Obi Wan said to Luke Obi-Wan: Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

Jedi are the guardians of peace in the galaxy.

Jedi use their powers to defend and protect, never to attack others.

Jedi respect all life, in any form.

Jedi serve others, rather than rule over them, for the good of the galaxy.

Jedi seek to improve themselves through knowledge and training

Before the prequels came out, one of the things I was hoping they would do is make the Jedi not have any sort of official authority in the old republic. Obi Wan said they were the guardians of peace and justice, he didn't say anything about law and order. I loved the idea of Jedi as this loose affiliation of wandering ronin, sort of warrior foreign aid workers, who travelled wherever their conscience led the, helping or fighting for the oppressed and injured wherever they went, with no regard for the powers that be, and they were allowed to exist and people trusted them because their reputation for fairness and impartiality was so rock solid, that it was unthinkable for one of them to NOT do what was right. That's why they would have been such a threat to a wanna be tyrant, they operated outside of the existing power structure and would have had no problem assassinating a leader who was demonstrably oppressive, and that's why Vader falling to the dark side was such a shock, once a single crack appeared in the Jedi's image, public faith in these paragons collapsed and neutralizing them became much easier.

Lucas basically went in completely the opposite direction from what I was hoping for.

What kind of Star Trek crap just invaded Star Wars? There's no way to simply ignore shields. Period. Shield tech has been around for thousands of years, all the countermeasures for bypassing shielding craft would have been devised long ago. There's no 'matching frequencies' or 'modulating shields' BS.

The only way I can see upgraded weapons 'ignoring' shields is to basically put out ally more firepower than necessary and to overwhelm the shields in one shot, basically cranking the attack dice to 5 (or 11 for you Spinal Tap fans).

Advanced homing missiles and proton bombs. This is how we deal with shields.

And once again I'm reduced to having no likes but

generalchaos34

The screwdriver post. For that you get this.

(I meant no likes to give out, but thanks! )

Before the prequels came out, one of the things I was hoping they would do is make the Jedi not have any sort of official authority in the old republic. Obi Wan said they were the guardians of peace and justice, he didn't say anything about law and order. I loved the idea of Jedi as this loose affiliation of wandering ronin, sort of warrior foreign aid workers, who travelled wherever their conscience led the, helping or fighting for the oppressed and injured wherever they went, with no regard for the powers that be, and they were allowed to exist and people trusted them because their reputation for fairness and impartiality was so rock solid, that it was unthinkable for one of them to NOT do what was right. That's why they would have been such a threat to a wanna be tyrant, they operated outside of the existing power structure and would have had no problem assassinating a leader who was demonstrably oppressive, and that's why Vader falling to the dark side was such a shock, once a single crack appeared in the Jedi's image, public faith in these paragons collapsed and neutralizing them became much easier.

Lucas basically went in completely the opposite direction from what I was hoping for.

+1

I have nothing to add really, except to say that I'm glad to see someone else who shares this view. My friends and I joke that Lucas misunderstood the Jedi; he thought they were Catholic, but they should have been Protestant. Luke's seeming disappearance is the reason I'm most hyped for TFA. Abrams seems to get that the Jedi should be mysterious, out meditating and serving the will of the Force.

It said punch through shields, not bypass shields...

Guys, you know that this just means that the energy delivered can take down the shield and still have enough power to hit the hull of the star-fighters that they were currently facing, like the X-wing, Y-wing, and B-wing.

Punch though is different than bypass, it means to hit, then to proceed through it because you have enough force behind the impact. It could be that the shields the rebels used were weak against concentrated firepower like that and could collapse... maybe the deflectors were tuned to multiple hits, like how the TIE fighter unleashes a volley of shots, and that type of shielding would be more effective against weaker, fast hitting/spammed shots? And deflector shields tuned to negating single devastating blows would be vulnerable to weak spammed shots overloading it and causing it to collapse?

So, trade offs for what types of shields you equip?

We know the shields are flexible, hence the "switch shields to double front!" or "stabilize those rear deflectors!" Maybe these TIE fighters are being switched from bullet hose to sniper rifle. Great damage, great range, poor reload, poor heat management. If you miss, you a screwed until those cannons cycle and you can shoot again.

It said punch through shields, not bypass shields...

Guys, you know that this just means that the energy delivered can take down the shield and still have enough power to hit the hull of the star-fighters that they were currently facing, like the X-wing, Y-wing, and B-wing.

Punch though is different than bypass, it means to hit, then to proceed through it because you have enough force behind the impact. It could be that the shields the rebels used were weak against concentrated firepower like that and could collapse... maybe the deflectors were tuned to multiple hits, like how the TIE fighter unleashes a volley of shots, and that type of shielding would be more effective against weaker, fast hitting/spammed shots? And deflector shields tuned to negating single devastating blows would be vulnerable to weak spammed shots overloading it and causing it to collapse?

So, trade offs for what types of shields you equip?

We know the shields are flexible, hence the "switch shields to double front!" or "stabilize those rear deflectors!" Maybe these TIE fighters are being switched from bullet hose to sniper rifle. Great damage, great range, poor reload, poor heat management. If you miss, you a screwed until those cannons cycle and you can shoot again.

Then just damage 3 weapons, if we're talking about 2 shield X-Wings.

Any weapon with a higher number than the shield equivalent can punch though that level of shields. The defence dies are agility, not durability.

In terms of dice rolls, if you set a 2-shield generator on the ground and set up a 3-die weapon pointed straight at it, the weapon would do 3 critical damage, and the generator would lose 2 shields and get hit with a crit.

If the ship is flying and dodging the there is the potential for the shields to deflect a portion of the damage done to the ship, since that portion will be lower due to agility. With no agility, and perfect aim any weapon at the same level as the shields (+1 for range) can be said to be able to "punch through" those shields.