To be fair though, we only ever see Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon, and Luke use it (influence) in the movies.

Yoda, Mace, Ki-Adi Mundi, Aayla Secura, Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Luke are all seen using Move, and Enhance to varying degrees in the movies (most directly the Geonosis battle). We see Luke, Anakin, Yoda, Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan all using Sense as well in the movies, but Influence only gets used as often as other, less common, force powers.

For instance, both Anakin and Luke use Harm (Anakin on Padme, Luke on the Gamorreans in Jabba's Palace) making it nearly as common among Jedi as Influence was, and the fact that Yoda never used it definitely brings it into question.

In fact, one could argue for almost any power to be required for a Jedi (Obi-Wan used Misdirect on screen with the Stormies in the Death Star, the obvious knowledge of Heal/Harm on screen, and the Obi-Wan/Anakin fight as well as the Yoda/Dooku fight all highlighted Protect/Unleash) but at some point you have to draw the line.

That being said, I don't dispute Rakaydos making Influence required - his game, his Jedi, his tenets and I am 100% okay with that.

That being said, I don't dispute Rakaydos making Influence required - his game, his Jedi, his tenets and I am 100% okay with that.

To be clear, I wasn't trying to dispute anyone's definition of Jedi Knighthood. I was merely offering up my opinion and the basis I had for that.

Wow. Just tried to create a clone, just for fun. When creating a Jedi, especially the Jedi Knight, the racial XP+150 seems very tight indeed. When creating a clone soldier you are swimming in points. If you pick just one specialization you can go pretty far down the tree on just those XPs!

Just fixed a pair of things about the Jedi Knight I had submitted to make her qualify for Knight (bought Enhance and a Move upgrade).

Wow. Just tried to create a clone, just for fun. When creating a Jedi, especially the Jedi Knight, the racial XP+150 seems very tight indeed. When creating a clone soldier you are swimming in points. If you pick just one specialization you can go pretty far down the tree on just those XPs!

I thought that was the most shocking thing. Then I thought the amount of credits and spending them all was the worst part. But no. The worst part of creating a Clone is realising that sure you can afford all that kit - you just can't carry it!

Are Edge careers available?

And would these characters still use Duty (as a clone trooper)?

Wow. Just tried to create a clone, just for fun. When creating a Jedi, especially the Jedi Knight, the racial XP+150 seems very tight indeed. When creating a clone soldier you are swimming in points. If you pick just one specialization you can go pretty far down the tree on just those XPs!

I thought that was the most shocking thing. Then I thought the amount of credits and spending them all was the worst part. But no. The worst part of creating a Clone is realising that sure you can afford all that kit - you just can't carry it!

I bought everything I can think of, and still have almost $4k credits in my pocket. Which works, as I'm saving for a rather expensive armor attachment.

150 XP for a Jedi has got to be tough. Clones just need to buy talents and skills, but Jedi have to buy talents, skills, and powers.

My official submission:

Jax, Clone Trooper Commando

Kyla, on 22 Oct 2015 - 2:29 PM, said:

That being said, I don't dispute Rakaydos making Influence required - his game, his Jedi, his tenets and I am 100% okay with that.

That maybe his game, his rules, but his criteria are too narrow and only lead to a game full of Consulars or Niman Disciples. Plus his criteria with force power are ridiculous. I can have a PC that can ressurect dead with the heal power but because I cant manipulate someone mind, I cannot be a Knight? Non-sense.

Plus the Lore tell us than a Padawan reach knighthood when he is ready to succeed the trials, not when he reach X criteria set in stone.

I think the criteria are reasonable.

Spending 20XP on force powers is not too much to ask. It's a bare minimum and perhaps not good enough for a Jedi Knight (which is why most builds go further).

Force Rating 2 is also reasonable because it indicates some mastery of the force and ensures decent ability with most force powers.

Being able to use a Lightsaber (Skill Ranks and Reflect) also makes sense.

And it's doable with a variety of specialization combos.

My Padawan is Seer/Ataru Striker. I could have easily met the requirements but wanted to sacrifice force power for Lightsaber ability - he'll grow into his force powers and become a Knight (and even he has the Basic power for the "core" Jedi powers).

Any lightsaber form Spec with Seer or Sage work really well.

Or if you want more specialized abilities you can go with a lightsaber Spec and an in Career Spec to get the Force Rating and specialized Talents.

These Jedi just aren't very skillful which is ok.

Actually, as far as criteria are concerned, you need to spend 30-40 XP on Force powers (Move needs to have two upgrades in addition to the basic power). Although Sense can be ignored if the character has the Niman Disciple's Sense Emotions, so in that case 25-35 XP.

I do agree that it can be achieved in a variety of ways, but a build that has Seer or Sage in it or Niman Disciple has an easier time of it.

I also do kinda agree that it is a bit odd to be able to have some of the seemingly more advanced Force powers, such as Bind and Protect/Unleash and Harm/Heal, and still be a Padawan, but one might be able to explain that as natural talent and affinity for those powers while still lacking the training and discipline associated with Knighthood or something to that effect.

Hoorah

http://swsheets.com/c/kq1xeu03s-tc-9631--blaze-

Clone trooper

This would be the Padawan.

JEREN VALLIN
Male Human Consular (Niman Disciple)
Morality ?/? (50)
Motivation Faith (The Jedi Code)
Experience 270; Remaining 10

Brawn 3, Agility 3, Intellect 2, Cunning 2, Willpower 4, Presence 3
Wound Threshold 13; Strain Threshold 13
Defense Melee 1, Ranged 0; Soak Value 4 (Brawn 3, armor 1)
Skills Cool 1, Discipline 1, Knowledge (Lore) 1, Lightsaber 1, Negotiation 1, Perception 1, Vigilance 1
Talents Dedication (Willpower) 1, Defensive Training 1, Force Rating 1, Niman Technique, Nobody's Fool 1, Parry 1, Reflect 1, Sum Djem
Force Powers Enhance (Control - Force Leap (Horizontal)), Influence, Move (Strength - Silhouette), Sense (Control - Upgrade Difficulty)
Combat Gear Lightsaber (Ilum crystal), concealing robes; Other Gear Utility belt (breath mask, comlink (handheld), datapad, glow rod, hand scanner, ration pack x4, syntherope (20 meters)), military belt pouch (stimpack x2)
Money 5 + 1d100 credits; Other Wealth None
Encumbrance 5/9

And this would be the Knight.

JEREN VALLIN
Male Human Consular (Niman Disciple, Sage)
Morality ?/? (50)
Motivation Faith (The Jedi Code)
Experience 270; Remaining 0

Brawn 3, Agility 3, Intellect 2, Cunning 2, Willpower 3, Presence 3
Wound Threshold 13; Strain Threshold 14
Defense Melee 0, Ranged 0; Soak Value 4 (Brawn 3, armor 1)
Skills Cool 1, Discipline 1, Knowledge (Lore) 1, Lightsaber 1, Negotiation 1, Perception 1, Vigilance 1
Talents Force Rating 2, Grit 1, Kill with Kindness 1, Niman Technique, Nobody's Fool 1, Parry 1, Reflect 1, Researcher 1, Smooth Talker (Negotiation) 1
Force Powers Enhance, Influence, Move (Range, Strength - Silhouette), Sense
Combat Gear Lightsaber (Ilum crystal), concealing robes; Other Gear Utility belt (breath mask, comlink (handheld), datapad, glow rod, hand scanner, ration pack x4, syntherope (20 meters)), military belt pouch (stimpack x2)
Money 5 + 1d100 credits; Other Wealth None
Encumbrance 5/9

There are still a few things to decide on crunch-wise, namely the Morality and what to spend the last 10 XP of the Padawan build on, but this should give a good enough idea. I will admit a preference to the Padawan, both mechanically and due to the fact that he would get to become a Knight through play.

Wow. Just tried to create a clone, just for fun. When creating a Jedi, especially the Jedi Knight, the racial XP+150 seems very tight indeed. When creating a clone soldier you are swimming in points. If you pick just one specialization you can go pretty far down the tree on just those XPs!

I thought that was the most shocking thing. Then I thought the amount of credits and spending them all was the worst part. But no. The worst part of creating a Clone is realising that sure you can afford all that kit - you just can't carry it!

Ha ha, I never even got to that part, didn't think about buying stuff or figuring out how to carry it!

All the Jedi pretty much have to buy two specializations as well, whereas the clones can live the easy life and just go deep down into one tree. Slightly jealous of that, but I really want to try to play a force-user. I don't get to play much Star Wars, in my real-life group I'm always the GM when we play this system.

Kyla, on 22 Oct 2015 - 2:29 PM, said:

That being said, I don't dispute Rakaydos making Influence required - his game, his Jedi, his tenets and I am 100% okay with that.

That maybe his game, his rules, but his criteria are too narrow and only lead to a game full of Consulars or Niman Disciples.

Not really no. I did choose Niman over Soresu as a second speciality for fluff reasons only. Soresu would have made the character, a Guardian Protector, "better", but Niman fitted better with the background I wrote. Others have shown ways to create characters with other specializations.

Once you let go of the almost pathological need to spend every last beginning XP on stats (which I and many others have) you realize you can build almost any kind of Jedi while fulfilling this criteria and still make a good character. Heck, you could probably build a Shii-Choo knight/Protector as long as you spent some XP on Protector, which has one parry and one deflect talent pretty early in the tree.

Think of the force powers not as isolated powers young Jedi learn to use in different classes (oh no, I have a Move class right after the Enhance class, what a bummer) but as a way to represent the fact that the Jedi is learning to use the force to accomplish various things. Kenobi tells Luke to "use the force", not to "use the Enhance power" to guide his flying and "use the Intuitive Strike to hit the exhaust port". The powers and talents are just the mechanical representation of people "using the Force" needed for a RPG to work.

Hoorah

http://swsheets.com/c/kq1xeu03s-tc-9631--blaze-

Clone trooper

Where'd you find the xp to get his Ag up to 4?

Hoorah

http://swsheets.com/c/kq1xeu03s-tc-9631--blaze-

Clone trooper

Where'd you find the xp to get his Ag up to 4?

Dedication man, dedication.

Oh yeah, true

So is this full?

Hoorah

http://swsheets.com/c/kq1xeu03s-tc-9631--blaze-

Clone trooper

I like it.

So is this full?

Theres still time to get sheets in for consideration.

Actually, as far as criteria are concerned, you need to spend 30-40 XP on Force powers (Move needs to have two upgrades in addition to the basic power). Although Sense can be ignored if the character has the Niman Disciple's Sense Emotions, so in that case 25-35 XP.

I do agree that it can be achieved in a variety of ways, but a build that has Seer or Sage in it or Niman Disciple has an easier time of it.

I also do kinda agree that it is a bit odd to be able to have some of the seemingly more advanced Force powers, such as Bind and Protect/Unleash and Harm/Heal, and still be a Padawan, but one might be able to explain that as natural talent and affinity for those powers while still lacking the training and discipline associated with Knighthood or something to that effect.

Theres room for people like that in the clone wars, but it is inherently a Jedi conflict- actual members of the jedi order should make up more of the cast.

I actually think Discipline (at least 1 rank) should also be a prerequisite for being knighted. I actually think it's more important than Reflect. But anyway.

When's the raffle?

Monday.

Totally forgot about discipline.

How many Knight builds here would be thrown off by a 1 rank discipline requirement?

Wait, there's a raffle? Everyone stop posting Clones!

How many Knight builds here would be thrown off by a 1 rank discipline requirement?

Neither my Padawan nor my Knight build would be affected.