My reaction to Star Trek 2009.

Orci and Kurtzman do share a considerable amount of blame for any movie they've been involved with; they're talentless hacks. The only way Transformers was watchable was if you view it as a two hour long SNL show with explosions.

If you ask me, the prospect of somebody who's not force sensitive, using a lightsaber, is interesting. How often do we actually see that? It's rare, but it would be interesting.

In the original trilogy the propsabers were actually pretty heavy.

When you swung one it had a pretty decent amount of force behind it, which translated over to the blade having starnge air resistance or somesuch.

It's not like swinging a stick, or a sword for that matter. No weight to the blade, but much more momentum than one would expect, and no avoidable edge means you could very easily overswing. (And chop your arm off.)

As for the crossguard, if you are dueling (and with no more clone wars the Sith are pretty much just anti-Jedi HQ units) you want a crossguard.

Luke's hand in episode 5 - wouldn't happen if there was a guard, or at least not the same way.

Here, just look. (Fyi, half-swording doesn't work with lightsabers, same with grabbing the blade, but not worrying about edge alignment should make up for it.)

U-uh no offense but why are you telling me this?

I know all of this.

I am a proponent of the Crossguard Lightsaber.

Hell I also enjoy the prequels. I'm not one of the curmudgeons.

Sorry, the first three sentences were for you, not the whole sword-use bit. Didn't mean to curmudgeon-bludgeon you.

The "X-Guard LiteSabre® sux all the Deathstars, wood never work. #onlytraditionalsabers" comments get to me.

(Edit: And I flat out died in Star Trek 2009. First and last time ever I get a ship named after me and BOOM. First 5 minutes. )

Aah. Duly noted dude. Though I did know those things too- I'm just saying it'd be cool to see someone who couldn't use the force use a Lightsaber as a weapon. We just don't see that much.

Pretty sure it's not a case of pretending (although there's an argument I've seen that places the blame with writers rather than Abrams), but let me argue that angle for a sec here:

Say I don't like any of his past movies. Is there then any precedent for me to like this one? Is there anything in the material we've seen that makes this somehow different than his previous movies?

Should anyone who dislikes his past movies waste time assuming this one will be different? I can tell you right now that enough people dislike, let's say, ST09, Into Darkness, Cloverfield, MI:3, etc that finding mediocrity precedent even if it's a case of opinion should still put a significant percentage of people into a camp that can look askance at this film and be right to do so.

Let me go on the record and say Cloverfield was friggin' terrible, 0/10 would not watch again.

Pretty sure it's not a case of pretending (although there's an argument I've seen that places the blame with writers rather than Abrams), but let me argue that angle for a sec here:

Say I don't like any of his past movies. Is there then any precedent for me to like this one? Is there anything in the material we've seen that makes this somehow different than his previous movies?

Should anyone who dislikes his past movies waste time assuming this one will be different? I can tell you right now that enough people dislike, let's say, ST09, Into Darkness, Cloverfield, MI:3, etc that finding mediocrity precedent even if it's a case of opinion should still put a significant percentage of people into a camp that can look askance at this film and be right to do so.

Irvin Kershner, director of Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back, went on to direct such "classics" as Robocop 2 and Never Say Never Again. So The Force Awakens being good wouldn't be the first time a director mediocre outside of Star Wars made a great Star Wars movie.

I think keeping an open mind is the best course of action.

I had an open mind about TPM, and that looked better from pre-release material than TFA has so far.

Never again.

Ok great, he has a crappy broadsword lightsaber(old news), much, much, much more importantly, like the OP said, where is Luke Skywalker?! If somehow Jar Jar Abrams has made the main character from the OT, the character that whose journey the story revolves around into some sort of minor background character, that doesn't warrant inclusion onto the theatrical poster, this movie is going to suck even harder than I thought it was going to! I can forgive the apparent killing off of Han and Leais happy ending, and the main character being Finn Solo(my current theory based on JJ not releasing last names and Marvel writing Han a pre Yavin black wife so Finn is his grandson) but if you got rid of or in some way marginalized Luke "The Man" Skywalker, JJ, you are dead to me!

Or maybe Luke's story is done? I mean, he had a whole trilogy as the main character and he had his own character arc.

Seriously, you sound like one of those people who hates any Star Wars movie that isn't a shot-for-shot remake of the OT.

If you ask me, the prospect of somebody who's not force sensitive, using a lightsaber, is interesting. How often do we actually see that? It's rare, but it would be interesting.

In the original trilogy the propsabers were actually pretty heavy.

When you swung one it had a pretty decent amount of force behind it, which translated over to the blade having starnge air resistance or somesuch.

It's not like swinging a stick, or a sword for that matter. No weight to the blade, but much more momentum than one would expect, and no avoidable edge means you could very easily overswing. (And chop your arm off.)

As for the crossguard, if you are dueling (and with no more clone wars the Sith are pretty much just anti-Jedi HQ units) you want a crossguard.

Luke's hand in episode 5 - wouldn't happen if there was a guard, or at least not the same way.

Here, just look. (Fyi, half-swording doesn't work with lightsabers, same with grabbing the blade, but not worrying about edge alignment should make up for it.)

U-uh no offense but why are you telling me this?

I know all of this.

I am a proponent of the Crossguard Lightsaber.

Hell I also enjoy the prequels. I'm not one of the curmudgeons.

Sorry, the first three sentences were for you, not the whole sword-use bit. Didn't mean to curmudgeon-bludgeon you.

The "X-Guard LiteSabre® sux all the Deathstars, wood never work. #onlytraditionalsabers" comments get to me.

(Edit: And I flat out died in Star Trek 2009. First and last time ever I get a ship named after me and BOOM. First 5 minutes. )

It's not all bad OK. After you died, you got to got to Valhalla with Captain Thor...err, Kirk.

Technically, it's not even Luke's story anyway. It's Anakin's. Like it or not, the hero that goes on a journey is the one who starts out as a whiny little ****, gets seduced to the Dark Side, and finds his way back to the Light with the help of his son. Luke's the "good guy" from beginning to end.

I had an open mind about TPM, and that looked better from pre-release material than TFA has so far.

Never again.

I don't know how. The return of the OT actors puts TFA above the TPM hype so, so much. But again, everyone has different tastes.

Also, Abrams did not direct Cloverfield.

Dunno, it's an obvious nostalgia ploy even if it's not for that reason, so I'm conceptually wary of it.

I don't believe I ever specified him as the director on any of the movies listed, just stuff where I understand he had significant involvement.

Ok great, he has a crappy broadsword lightsaber(old news), much, much, much more importantly, like the OP said, where is Luke Skywalker?! If somehow Jar Jar Abrams has made the main character from the OT, the character that whose journey the story revolves around into some sort of minor background character, that doesn't warrant inclusion onto the theatrical poster, this movie is going to suck even harder than I thought it was going to! I can forgive the apparent killing off of Han and Leais happy ending, and the main character being Finn Solo(my current theory based on JJ not releasing last names and Marvel writing Han a pre Yavin black wife so Finn is his grandson) but if you got rid of or in some way marginalized Luke "The Man" Skywalker, JJ, you are dead to me!

Or maybe Luke's story is done? I mean, he had a whole trilogy as the main character and he had his own character arc.

Seriously, you sound like one of those people who hates any Star Wars movie that isn't a shot-for-shot remake of the OT.

No, no... Those types would despise a remake too.

Technically, it's not even Luke's story anyway. It's Anakin's. Like it or not, the hero that goes on a journey is the one who starts out as a whiny little ****, gets seduced to the Dark Side, and finds his way back to the Light with the help of his son. Luke's the "good guy" from beginning to end.

+1 man, you're dead on the money. Vader's is the most important of the six films. By far.

Dunno, it's an obvious nostalgia ploy even if it's not for that reason, so I'm conceptually wary of it.

I don't believe I ever specified him as the director on any of the movies listed, just stuff where I understand he had significant involvement.

Try something brand new, fans hate it. Doesn't feel right.

Try something very similar, fans hate it. Doesn't feel right.

Technically, it's not even Luke's story anyway. It's Anakin's. Like it or not, the hero that goes on a journey is the one who starts out as a whiny little ****, gets seduced to the Dark Side, and finds his way back to the Light with the help of his son. Luke's the "good guy" from beginning to end.

The original trilogy is absolutely Luke's story. Luke has the majority of the character development and screen-time and his journey is the one that matters. A New Hope is Luke's journey from farmboy to hero. Empire Strikes Back is about his training to become a Jedi and how he stumbles on that path. Return of the Jedi is about his quest to redeem his father against all odds. Vader is just another villain in A New Hope, and while he gets a more significant role in Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi his importance in the context of those movies is how he affects Luke. Vader doesn't even change as a character until Return of the Jedi.

Plus, you know, Luke is the main protagonist.

The idea that the OT is Anakin's story makes no sense beyond George Lucas telling people it is that way. The PT is Anakin's story, the OT is Luke's story.

Vader is just as prominently featured throughout the trilogy as Luke is.

A story doesn't have to be focused on a protagonist, you know.

it's an obvious nostalgia ploy even if it's not for that reason, so I'm conceptually wary of it.

I'm sorry, what?

What were they supposed to do, just not mention Luke, Han, Leia, the Rebellion, Darth Vader, the fact that it's STAR WARS, at all?

Just, what?

it's an obvious nostalgia ploy even if it's not for that reason, so I'm conceptually wary of it.

I'm sorry, what?

What were they supposed to do, just not mention Luke, Han, Leia, the Rebellion, Darth Vader, the fact that it's STAR WARS, at all?

Just, what?

And apparently, not mentioning Luke enough is JUST as bad.

With all due respect to Tipperary, Haters of stuff they've not even seen make no sense.

it's an obvious nostalgia ploy even if it's not for that reason, so I'm conceptually wary of it.

I'm sorry, what?

What were they supposed to do, just not mention Luke, Han, Leia, the Rebellion, Darth Vader, the fact that it's STAR WARS, at all?

Just, what?

they killed 30 years of at least decent stories that we knew to push GARBAGE at us. I would take six copies of the Jedi flipping Academy trilogy over the "canon" junk they've been throwing out post-Disney, and there is NO VISIBLE REASON to believe TFA will be better.

With all due respect to Tipperary, Haters of stuff they've not even seen make no sense.

Jesus F**king Christ dude calm down.

this is not something people should be calm over

Hey, did you guys hear there's an awesome new Star Wars movie coming out?

Apparently there's a sh*tty one coming out, too.

You can go see the sh*tty one with Tipperary if you want.

I'll be watching the awesome one.

THERE ISN'T GOING TO BE A !#$!@#! AWESOME ONE

Did TPM teach people NOTHING?

Vader is just as prominently featured throughout the trilogy as Luke is.

A story doesn't have to be focused on a protagonist, you know.

By definition it does. The protagonist is the lead.

And no, Vader is not featured as prominently through the trilogy as Luke. In A New Hope he's just Tarkin's muscle. In Return of the Jedi he features prominently in the final third of the movie but barely exists before then. Even in Empire Strikes Back where he's the main villain, he still doesn't get as much screentime as Luke.

THIRTY $%!!@$#! YEARS, simply because they HAD to get the actors back in the hopes it won't be a TPM repeat.

they killed 30 years of at least decent stories that we knew to push GARBAGE at us. I would take six copies of the Jedi flipping Academy trilogy over the "canon" junk they've been throwing out post-Disney, and there is NO VISIBLE REASON to believe TFA will be better.

Just because something is non-canon doesn't mean it's gone. I can still read Rogue Squadron or Heir to the Empire. I can still play Knights of the Old Republic II or TIE Fighter. These works of fiction are still there for me to enjoy. The only thing being non-canon does is mean they won't affect newer stories, which I'm fine with. I don't need new stories referencing the Thrawn trilogy, that story was already told as good as it could be.

Also, I've read a lot of Star Wars books (though nowhere near all of them). I can't imagine anything post-Disney acquisition is as bad as The Crystal Star or Dark Nest. The old Star Wars EU had some wonderful stories, but it also had a ton of garbage.

THERE ISN'T GOING TO BE A !#$!@#! AWESOME ONE

Did TPM teach people NOTHING?

So there should be no new Star Wars movies, ever? We get it, you're determined not to like it no matter what. Are you finished? I honestly don't know what you're trying to accomplish here.

I'd be fine with a new Star Wars movie.

As I said earlier, this looks worse, from every piece of material than we've seen so far, than TPM did before its release.

If it looked better, I wouldn't be so concerned.

this is not something people should be calm over

Yes, yes it freaking is, dude. Why?

Lemme' tell you a thing... I love Star Wars.

But at the end of the day, it's just. a freaking. movie. Okay? It's just a movie, comic, game, book, miniatures game I do not care- it is just a piece of media. There are MUCH bigger problems than poorly directed movies. MUCH. Freaking. Bigger.

WAY BIGGER.

And you're choosing to stress, and stress, and stress, over "Ruined" media, over how "Terrible" things have gotten.

At the end of the day, you can turn off the monitor and realize, "Whoa hold on, there is JUST A LITTLE MORE to this than I may've realized."

And this is coming from a guy who spots almost every single 1138 reference ever, anywhere, someone who obsessively plays games like Elite: Dangerous, and has spent THOUSANDS of dollars AND hours playing video games, learning how to write better, and dedicating his life to the production of media.

And I'M having to tell you, that this is NOT a huge deal..?

Then go complain about it in a place people give a ****! Go to the facebook page, make a few petitions, go whine about it somewhere- anywhere else! Some of us want to actually enjoy something- I KNOW how much something bad, can ruin things as a whole. I'm a Halo fan! I spent YEARS immersing myself in the rich, FANTASTIC lore pre 343i Acquisition, and I rooted for Halo 4. Then Halo 4 turned out to be the worst possible installment of the franchise they could ever hope to make, and then tripped overthemselves again with The Master Chief Collection.

I played Mass Effect 3! Stared in disbelief as my Shepard looked at a STOCK IMAGE THAT WAS PHOTOSHOPPED of Tali's face, and watched that terrible ending.

And you know what? Halo 5 looks pretty damned good, and I have to admit, Andromeda is a REALLY interesting concept that I quite like.

...So I know what it's like, to think something was ruined. But you know what? Fond memories are a great thing, and I can go back any time I want, and go experience those things again. I still play Jedi Knight II even though Mysteries of The Sith was a total pile of GARBAGE.

Because I'm able to get over it. You should too dude. I say that with as much respect as possible. There's more to worry about.

THIRTY $%!!@$#! YEARS, simply because they HAD to get the actors back in the hopes it won't be a TPM repeat.

they killed 30 years of at least decent stories that we knew to push GARBAGE at us. I would take six copies of the Jedi flipping Academy trilogy over the "canon" junk they've been throwing out post-Disney, and there is NO VISIBLE REASON to believe TFA will be better.

Just because something is non-canon doesn't mean it's gone. I can still read Rogue Squadron or Heir to the Empire. I can still play Knights of the Old Republic II or TIE Fighter. These works of fiction are still there for me to enjoy. The only thing being non-canon does is mean they won't affect newer stories, which I'm fine with. I don't need new stories referencing the Thrawn trilogy, that story was already told as good as it could be.

Also, I've read a lot of Star Wars books (though nowhere near all of them). I can't imagine anything post-Disney acquisition is as bad as The Crystal Star or Dark Nest. The old Star Wars EU had some wonderful stories, but it also had a ton of garbage. Garbage far worse than anything in the prequels.

Such as the dozens of "near human" species that were sweaty nerd fantasies, slime racing, the horrible Dark Forces II novel, the entirety of Vong, Kurt Cobain Skywalker, pretty much every sith in the legacy era, a great deal of Old Republic content, TONS of terrible books that nobody's even read except for the sole purpose of filling a Wiki, and so on. The old EU was a big hot mess, but really it was a necrotic growth that needed to be amputated to survive.

And thank the mouse that it has, because what we're getting now is at least coherent and identifiably Star Wars.

THERE ISN'T GOING TO BE A !#$!@#! AWESOME ONE

Did TPM teach people NOTHING?

It taught me to look back at the original trilogy and realize it's just as incredibly campy as its successor.

THERE ISN'T GOING TO BE A !#$!@#! AWESOME ONE

Did TPM teach people NOTHING?

So there should be no new Star Wars movies, ever? We get it, you're determined not to like it no matter what. Are you finished? I honestly don't know what you're trying to accomplish here.

I'll drink to that.

EDIT: Something in this forum got worse about quotes, the system is EXTREMELY messy now.

you're making the mistake of believing I care if anyone else gives a ****

it's been a very long time since I accepted that would never be the case

also, I don't have to accomplish anything, that's not how the brain works, all I have to do is use the many tricks we as a species have invented to trick the body into triggering a reward without the effort. that's all art and music and movies and games bloody well are, anyway. Shortcuts and aberrations and declarations of war to anything worth a ****.

Just because something is non-canon doesn't mean it's gone. I can still read Rogue Squadron or Heir to the Empire. I can still play Knights of the Old Republic II or TIE Fighter. These works of fiction are still there for me to enjoy. The only thing being non-canon does is mean they won't affect newer stories, which I'm fine with. I don't need new stories referencing the Thrawn trilogy, that story was already told as good as it could be.

Also, I've read a lot of Star Wars books (though nowhere near all of them). I can't imagine anything post-Disney acquisition is as bad as The Crystal Star or Dark Nest. The old Star Wars EU had some wonderful stories, but it also had a ton of garbage.

Aftermath was outright worse than Jedi Prince.