TLT and Critical hits

By tk426, in X-Wing Rules Questions

If I roll 3 critical hits using Twin Laser Turrets does the defender take the critical hit or is it a regular hit. Other situation could happen as well. If all I roll is 1 or 2 critical hits and the defender doesn't evade enough of my critical hit.

PAGE 5 of rule book

7. Deal Damage: If the defender was hit, it suffers one damage for each uncanceled HIT result and one critical damage for each uncanceled CRITICAL result. All damage must be suffered before any critical damage may be suffered.

It says regular hit and then all dice results are canceled. When the dice are canceled, there is no more critical in the results to apply.

Edited by Darth Landy

Card text is very clear on this:

ATTACK: Perform this attack twice (even against a ship outside your firing arc).

Each time this attack hits, the defender suffers 1 damage. Then cancel all dice results.

...meaning that if there is 1 or more unsaved hits (critical or otherwise), the defender suffers 1 damage (non-critical damage). The attack is performed twice, meaning the maximum damage output is 2 regular damage.

Edited by surfimp

It says regular hit and then all dice results are canceled. When the dice are canceled, there is no more critical in the results to apply.

If you cross reference HIT on page 7

HIT

During the “Compare Results” step of attack, a ship is hit if there are any HIT or CRITICAL HITS results remaining after canceling dice.

If I roll 2 critical hits and a blank and the defender roll zero evades what type of hit gets triggered. The card doesn't say anything about changing results it says if the defender was hit it take 1 damage. Well the only dice remaining after all other dice are canceled is a CRITICAL HIT. That is why I'm asking this question.

Then check dealing damage on page 5

Deal Damage: If the defender was hit, it suffers one damage for each uncanceled HIT result and one critical damage for each uncanceled CRITICAL HIT result. All damage must be suffered before any critical damage may be suffered.

I feel as though if you were to only take a regular damage the TLT card should say something along the lines of turn all crtitical hits into regular hits or it should show a regular HIT symbol.

Edited by tk426

This is a classic confusion in this game of confusing a "Hit" roll on the dice, and an attack "hitting", or landing on the target. An attack hits when any uncancelled "Hit" or "Crit" results get through the Defense roll. If, in the case of the TLT, the attack gets through to the target, the defender suffers one damage and all dice results are cancelled.

Edited by Slugrage

This is a classic confusion in this game of confusing a "Hit" roll on the dice, and an attack "hitting", or landing on the target. An attack hits when any uncancelled "Hit" or "Crit" results get through the Defense roll. If, in the case of the TLT, the attack gets through to the target, the defender suffers one damage and all dice results are cancelled.

Well said. Thank you for that clearification.

Also worth pointing out that there is a difference between "damage" and "critical damage". both game terms defined on page 9 of the new rules reference.

Normally when you perform an attack, you roll your attack dice (and modify) and the defender rolls their defence dice (and modify), and the uncancelled RESULTS carry through to the Deal Damage step.

In the case of the TLT (and most Ion weapons also), the dice rolling is merely used to establish whether or not you hit or miss, as the card dictates the end damage effects and the RESULTS are cancelled.

This is a common dice mechanic within the game as it allows for limited damage but other effects as well (such as an Ion token). The confusion generated by the word 'hit' is quite common here. Which is the main reason a lot of posters here avoid the word when referring to dice results and prefer to use <boom> and <KABOOM> (or something similar) instead. The rules don't actually give those results a name, rather they tell you their effect instead. It's the gamers that unconsciously name them as 'hits' and 'crits'. And that's where the confusion starts.

Actually in the new rules reference the dice results do have those names. If people would just write hit result, it would not as easily be mistaken for being hit.

The rules don't actually give those results a name, rather they tell you their effect instead. It's the gamers that unconsciously name them as 'hits' and 'crits'. And that's where the confusion starts.

Sadly, that is no longer the case. The new rules reference assigned official names to all the icons in the game, including "Hit"s and "Critical"s. So, instead of taking the opportunity of fixing the issue and avoiding the confusion in the future, they have just institutionalized the thing that causes the confusion.

Fortunately, they did also more formally define "Hit" in the traditional usage as well, so anyone who actually reads the rules manual (HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....sorry) should be able to tell the difference.

****, ninja'd.

Incidentally, the icons are given names on page 10 of the RR, under "Dice Results", and the definition of "Hit" is on page 12.

Oh, and if anyone cares, the official names of the upgrade icons are on page 20.

Edited by Forgottenlore

The rules don't actually give those results a name, rather they tell you their effect instead. It's the gamers that unconsciously name them as 'hits' and 'crits'. And that's where the confusion starts.

Sadly, that is no longer the case. The new rules reference assigned official names to all the icons in the game, including "Hit"s and "Critical"s. So, instead of taking the opportunity of fixing the issue and avoiding the confusion in the future, they have just institutionalized the thing that causes the confusion.

Fortunately, they did also more formally define "Hit" in the traditional usage as well, so anyone who actually reads the rules manual (HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....sorry) should be able to tell the difference.

****, ninja'd.

Incidentally, the icons are given names on page 10 of the RR, under "Dice Results", and the definition of "Hit" is on page 12.

Oh, and if anyone cares, the official names of the upgrade icons are on page 20.

Oh, yeah. I just found them on page 10. Thanks for pointing that out. They were never named in the old rulebook, and the new rulebook hasn't really helped to clear the confusion here.

Still, we muddle on...

It says regular hit and then all dice results are canceled. When the dice are canceled, there is no more critical in the results to apply.

I don't see anywhere on the TLT card that it says regular hit.

If you cross reference HIT on page 7

HIT

During the “Compare Results” step of attack, a ship is hit if there are any HIT or CRITICAL HITS results remaining after canceling dice.

If I roll 2 critical hits and a blank and the defender roll zero evades what type of hit gets triggered. The card doesn't say anything about changing results it says if the defender was hit it take 1 damage. Well the only dice remaining after all other dice are canceled is a CRITICAL HIT. That is why I'm asking this question.

Then check dealing damage on page 5

Deal Damage: If the defender was hit, it suffers one damage for each uncanceled HIT result and one critical damage for each uncanceled CRITICAL HIT result. All damage must be suffered before any critical damage may be suffered.

I feel as though if you were to only take a regular damage the TLT card should say something along the lines of turn all crtitical hits into regular hits or it should show a regular HIT symbol.

You answered your own question though. If you roll two crits and a blank, the ship is "hit". Now TLT says if the attack hits, it deals one damage AND cancels the dice results. There are no crits left in the dice because they've been canceled, so there is nothing to apply.

Furthermore, TLT doesn't say anything about dealing a critical damage. It says damage. Cards always trump the rules (I believe this is mentioned in the rules somewhere).

Edited by Darth Landy

It says regular hit and then all dice results are canceled. When the dice are canceled, there is no more critical in the results to apply.

I don't see anywhere on the TLT card that it says regular hit.

If you cross reference HIT on page 7

HIT

During the “Compare Results” step of attack, a ship is hit if there are any HIT or CRITICAL HITS results remaining after canceling dice.

If I roll 2 critical hits and a blank and the defender roll zero evades what type of hit gets triggered. The card doesn't say anything about changing results it says if the defender was hit it take 1 damage. Well the only dice remaining after all other dice are canceled is a CRITICAL HIT. That is why I'm asking this question.

Then check dealing damage on page 5

Deal Damage: If the defender was hit, it suffers one damage for each uncanceled HIT result and one critical damage for each uncanceled CRITICAL HIT result. All damage must be suffered before any critical damage may be suffered.

I feel as though if you were to only take a regular damage the TLT card should say something along the lines of turn all crtitical hits into regular hits or it should show a regular HIT symbol.

You answered your own question though. If you roll two crits and a blank, the ship is "hit". Now TLT says if the attack hits, it deals one damage AND cancels the dice results. There are no crits left in the dice because they've been canceled, so there is nothing to apply.

Furthermore, TLT doesn't say anything about dealing a critical damage. It says damage. Cards always trump the rules (I believe this is mentioned in the rules somewhere).

To be more accurate, "If you roll two crits and a blank" and your opponent doesn't cancel all of them, then the ship is hit.

When you get to the Compare Results step, you're only looking for one of two possible outcomes. Did I hit the defender or not? As soon as you've answered that question, the dice results are ignored as they aren't used in the Deal Damage step.

If the answer was yes, then the TLT card says apply 1 damage. Take down a shield or deal a facedown damage card if the target has no shields.

If the answer was no, then that attack is over.