Since it apparently wasn't completely clear to some I asked FFG if the restriction on maneuver tool usage was confined to the ship currently on it's Determine Course step. Here is the question and answer.

"Hello, Scott,

In response to your question:

Rules Question:

The Rules Reference Guide on Page 9 under the heading "Premeasuring" states the following. "The maneuver tool can be placed and adjusted freely during the “Determine Course” step of executing a maneuver to assist in determining a course. A ship is not committed to a course until the guide" Is this use of the Maneuver Template specific to the currently activating ship, or can either player during any "Determine Course" step use the Maneuver Template to measure from any of their ships even if that ship is not the ship currently activating?

The maneuver tool can be used to plot the path of the ship that is currently determining its course. It can’t be used to plot paths for other ships at this time. The range ruler, on the other hand, can be used at any time with any components."

I *almost* did this tonight. (measuring another ships possible course to determine my own)

In the end, I decided against it. Didn't feel right.

I asked the same question. Well almost.

Hello, Damion,

In response to your question:

Rules Question:

Is the Maneuver tool only allowed to be used on the ship being moved? Are we allowed to use the maneuver tool to premeasure other ships movements? Thank you for your time.

The maneuver tool can be used to plot paths only for the ship that is currently determining its course. It can’t be used to plot paths for other ships at this time (primarily to avoid unintentionally slow play).

Thanks for playing!

James Kniffen

Game Designer

Fantasy Flight Games

[email protected]

_{This is great.}

_{Part of the game is some of the indecision of maneuver, etc.. You could theoretically, given enough time, plot every potential for an opponent. Thatd be simply annoying and the opposite of fun...hehe..}

Not sure why my last post was typed in "gotta use a microscope font"......

sorry

That definitely puts a wrinkle in the way we've been playing, but it's good to know.

Were you unaware of the rule or just simply thought it meant different?

Were you unaware of the rule or just simply thought it meant different?

Unaware.

I still maintain that the rules for tournament play are the silliest things I have ever seen. In fact the current release are absurdly silly as you can only have one token in use. So you can even follow the rules used to setup the game as the little "L" shaped tokens will be limited.

One-Tool Rule: A player can only use one tool at a time when measuring range, distance, or movement. A tool is defined as the range ruler, the maneuver tool, or another component such as a token. This rule is intended to prevent slow play, as defined on page 5.

"When measuring". So using the for Ls for setup wouldn't violate the rules.

Moreover, using the Ls as a stand in for squadron bases also doesn't violate the rules because doing so is very unlikely to cause slow play.

Listing the intention of the rule in this case really helps identify times when the rule need not apply.

Don't you use them to mark off a distance?

What's the point of a rule you have to break to play?

Use them to mark a distance? No, I don't. Am I misunderstanding your context?

Don't you use them to mark off a distance?

What's the point of a rule you have to break to play?

I use the L tokens to mark boundaries not to measure distance.

I have seen a lot of people incorrectly using the L's to mark out the distance 3 from the deployment edge, instead of having them against the edge of the board (as per the big setup diagram on the back of the learn to play guide).

The reason they are supposed to be on the edge of the board is because there are objectives (like minefields if i recall correctly) that allow obstacles to be deployed right up to the players edges - so the entire setup zone includes the edges. (missions that you can't put things within X of each edge deliberately specify so)

The counter argument is that its easy to see where ships can deploy, but really its not so hard to just have the measurement ruler in one hand and your ship in the other to make sure they are within 3 of the edge.

If it's not a likely contributor to show play, I'm not too worried about tokens, especially the Ls are used.

If it's not a likely contributor to show play, I'm not too worried about tokens, especially the Ls are used.

So, I am of the opinion that these rules do little to make the game faster, can I then ignore them?

I wouldn't say it like that.

The one tool rule in tournament play specifies tokens as well to prevent people from exploiting premeasuring as a form of slow play.

There are situations where tokens can be used while people are measuring, where the token use doesn't contribute to slow play.

For example, during setup some people put their initial Ls at distance 3 from the board. This could be considered a technical violation of the one-tool rule (since you are using the Ls to denote a distance) but practically speaking, using the Ls in this manner doesn't provide some kind of tactical advantage, it just saves a little bit of time when measuring 3 out for ship placement. It's a technical violation that, in my opinion, can be overlooked because it doesn't adversely affect either player, or how the game happens.

Similarly, when I'm plotting movement I might find that squadrons are blocking my maneuver tool. Often I'll throw Ls down to mark where the squadrons are, and move them out of the way. Technically this would also violate the one tool rule, but again, I'm not seeking an advantage, or to prolong play, I'm using these tokens to actually help speed up the game and it doesn't provide either player with an advantage.

In some cases using tokens would provide an advantage (putting a token down in your final movement position, but before you've locked the maneuver tool in so you can measure distances from that accurately placed token) if you do this, and I don't then you will have a strategic advantage. It could also very easily contribute to slow play by plotting out every possible movement, and measuring distances from every token placement.

For example, during setup some people put their initial Ls at distance 3 from the board. This could be considered a technical violation of the one-tool rule (since you are using the Ls to denote a distance) but practically speaking, using the Ls in this manner doesn't provide some kind of tactical advantage, it just saves a little bit of time when measuring 3 out for ship placement. It's a technical violation that, in my opinion, can be overlooked because it doesn't adversely affect either player, or how the game happens.

As mentioned in my post about 3 posts up, its really annoying when you play against someone who does it and you have a mission like Minefields which allows you to deploy obstacles right to the edges - you might want to put an asteroid right where they have (incorrectly) placed those L's.

Its just an example of players not following the rules and going "So what, its not important to me so you can't ask me to do it properly". If any player has difficulties with putting a ship on the board and placing a ruler next to it to see it is within 3 (which is actually far more accurate then trying to look across the invisible line they have created) then I would question their ability to measure anything in the game lol

I've never personally had that be an issue, but I only know one person specifically who does it (locally) and I'm sure if I wanted to place a Minefields obstacle right at that location he would be accommodating.

I get why people do it as a minor convenience. I'm just too lazy to do the double measure when setting up.