Hey guys,

so with Akbar causing a stir akin to TLTs on the x-wing forums, though probably not nearly as overblown, I thought it'd be a good time to start thinking ahead; particularly in the case of rebels

see, although Akbar is awesome, imps still dominate at close range. What happens, however, when a non-Akbar rebel goes up against the fish man? How do you counter the superior long range firepower when that's supposed to be your shtick too?

well, apart from somehow getting into the front/rear arc, I think the answer lies in the Silly (Scugg) Bomber

unlike the B-wing, the roving landmine of death, the Silly Bomber is a fast squadron capable of catching up to the likes of assault frigates. It's more expensive, less useful against squadrons (basically a y-wing), and also less useful with Yavaris since she doesn't care about your speed; so it seems countering a long range threat rather while B-wings would handle the close range seems to be the ideal distinction.

Due to their speed, rebel emphasis on long range, and Grit; Boosted Comms seems to be the upgrade to take on their commanding ship. With a longer command range, you can maintain a greater distance from the enemy and pick up any bombers you scatter to attempt to abuse grit by spreading out (which thins the enemy's squadrons; potentially forcing them to spread out and enable grit or pile onto a single bomber)

Uncontested, silly bombers add a startling amount of damage with blueblack which quickly multiplies with multiple squadrons. A humble Afmk2-B with 3 bombers under its command will throw a combined redredred, blueblueblueblackblackblack; spread out over multiple attacks to mitigate defense tokens.

The problem now lies in taking a convincing amount of bombers and finding the right list for it.

First off, who's carrying the **** things? Seems like an MC-80 or Afmk2 are ideal due to their ability to pack boosted comms and their preference for staying at range (whereas B-wings, who like to get close, make really good partners with Nebs; especially Yavaris).

an Afmk2-B w/comms is 76 points. To fill out its Squadron value with 3 Sillies, you get 124 points

• could be a good flagship (greatest safety is in staying the hell away from the enemy); potentially housing MM and supported by CR-90s
• under Garm, 4 silly bombers can be commanded by this ship (140 total cost); fatties really like garm
• Akbar on Akbar violence: Akbar on a boosted comms Afmk2-B + 3 sillies + 3 Afmk2-Bs w/gunnery teams = 399 points

a Mon Cal w/comms is 110, but really you're putting Defiance for at least 115. With four Sillies, that's 179 points

• assuming no Akbar, you're down to Big-D and Garm (assuming Riekan won't gel well with an expensive ship and a bunch of generic squadrons)
• the Mon Cal likes Garm just as much as the fattie; the problem lies with additional ships.
• the Mon Cal doesn't particularly benefit from any commander (even Akbar is inefficient compared to the Afmk2 or Shrimp; the synergy with Home One excepted) and Big-D likes his bombers

so, what do you guys think? will Silly Bombers potentially see the light of day as a challenge to Akbar's long range supremacy? or are they just too weird to fit into a list?

A list I'm planning to try at some point is 2x akbar ea afmk2 gunnery teams of hell for 4*6 red dice, circling like sharks while projecting an assortment of speed 3 bombers piranhas. Add in a complimentary cr90 or mc30c for good measure. So yeah, I'm pretty excited about boosted comms.

An alternate to three H-6s (48 points) might be 4 Ywings and flight controllers (46)?

You lose the 3x blue anti ship dice and grit, but get more anti fighter, and more hull so if expecting fighter opposition might be a bit more balanced.

I can see both being useful. Vs Ackbar, ECMs on the assault frigates might help them survive.

After seeing the skkuuuuuuurgs, I kinda wish that's how B-wings were

I'm still hoping for rogue squadron updates to the classics! (x-wing black dice, y-wing reroll, b-wing faster, a-wing bomber!)

After seeing the skkuuuuuuurgs, I kinda wish that's how B-wings were

I'm still hoping for rogue squadron updates to the classics! (x-wing black dice, y-wing reroll, b-wing faster, a-wing bomber!)

why would you wish B-wings were like Sillies when you have Sillies

anyway, I don't think Sillies are actually "better" than Bs; they just target completely different things

B-wings are still the deadliest mine-field in the game and still straight ****** with Yavaris. They're great with Nebulons because Nebs drive somewhat towards the enemy, and the enemy does not want to drive towards B-wings. The 2 speed is not an issue when you're not moving (Yavaris) or the enemy is coming to you

Sillies, on the other hand, are worse at being minefields (2 points more for the same offense, crap anti-squadron, heavy so can't engage bombers like Bs can--a very useful ability one may forget about...). They do two things, essentially

1. Grit to hopefully avoid being engaged by a single squadron

2. move 150% faster than a B-wing, making them a lot better at chasing things down

so I'm not advocating Sillies as a replacement for B-wings, just as a way to hunt down evasive ships (or ships that don't want to run into your face...like anything that isn't a star destroyer). B-wings can sorta do it (you really have to plan ahead and cut off the enemy) but Sillies are simply 150% more effective at chasing enemies down

I think squadrons will be a great counter to ackbar circle/kite builds. Scrugg's and Y's seem better-off than B's for that; though I don't tend to stack ships for real money and personal reasons. Though I think I'll get at least 2 rogue packs so 2 Scrugg's and 2 Y's with X support might work for me.

After seeing the skkuuuuuuurgs, I kinda wish that's how B-wings were

I'm still hoping for rogue squadron updates to the classics! (x-wing black dice, y-wing reroll, b-wing faster, a-wing bomber!)

why would you wish B-wings were like Sillies when you have Sillies

anyway, I don't think Sillies are actually "better" than Bs; they just target completely different things

B-wings are still the deadliest mine-field in the game and still straight ****** with Yavaris. They're great with Nebulons because Nebs drive somewhat towards the enemy, and the enemy does not want to drive towards B-wings. The 2 speed is not an issue when you're not moving (Yavaris) or the enemy is coming to you

Sillies, on the other hand, are worse at being minefields (2 points more for the same offense, crap anti-squadron, heavy so can't engage bombers like Bs can--a very useful ability one may forget about...). They do two things, essentially

1. Grit to hopefully avoid being engaged by a single squadron

2. move 150% faster than a B-wing, making them a lot better at chasing things down

so I'm not advocating Sillies as a replacement for B-wings, just as a way to hunt down evasive ships (or ships that don't want to run into your face...like anything that isn't a star destroyer). B-wings can sorta do it (you really have to plan ahead and cut off the enemy) but Sillies are simply 150% more effective at chasing enemies down

I think this is correct. I'd been working with some rebel builds with AFIIs with Ackbar and B-wings, but had been struggling with how to keep the AFIIs moving at speed 3 without out-running the B's. Speed 3 sillies with A's (or Rogue YT-2400s, for a little more investment) and an Intel Ship with Boosted Comms sounds more in line with what I was thinking.

That said, I'd be loath to run Sillies alone (without anti-squadron support, in particular), whereas I'm not at all worried about running a bunch of B's.

First of all silly bombers is going to stay as a name. Point +1.

Second, you analyzed and tried to make people use other new stuff. Point + 2.

Third, you're rather spot on about what I think you should use it for and well written. +3. =)

I find ficklegreendice's use of an Imperial avatar while meting out advice for Rebel players in the face of Ackbar... disturbing.

As people know, I'm a loyal Imperial player, and I got creamed - twice - by Lyraeus' use of Ackbar last night. (That's fine, I'd rather learn the lessons and have him spend his karma now, rather than at a tournament - still, I have a galaxy to save from his terrorism.)

Anyway, with talk of "silly bombers" and the Ackbar Conga, I can't get this video out of my head.

my avatar is apparently the last of the X-wing miniatures avatars

and since there's nothing for Armada yet...for some inscrutable reason...I'm stuck with the Advance

besides, it's rebel v rebel advice so I'd think the empire would be happy about that

I would offer imperial advice, but due to the nature of basically everyone else playing empire around here I am the designated rebel scum for all but a handful of games. Closest the imps can get to Sillies are either Firesprays or Rhymer Ball, and I'm sure they'll be quite effective too!

then again, x-17 now craps on Projectors and the ISD is looking scarier than ever, so there's that too

I've been contemplating the anti-Ackbar as well, after watching a double MC80 list in action last night. My main thought was to build around Independence as a way to get your B-wings into the fight. You should still use them as minefields, but your mines will get into action all the sooner. Add on long range comms, and you have the flexibility to run away from enemy ships while your B-wings sit on their nose and shoot, shoot, shoot.

Adding some silly bombers is a great idea that gives the build some flexibility in tactics on the table.

Pair that up with an AFIIB with flight controllers and expanded hangars for some flexibility in countering enemy squadrons...activate with whichever ship best fits the situation. Throw in Yavaris for more fun.

It leaves the ships pretty bare bones, but I'd expect the squadrons to do most of the heavy lifting.

I've been contemplating the anti-Ackbar as well, after watching a double MC80 list in action last night. My main thought was to build around Independence as a way to get your B-wings into the fight. You should still use them as minefields, but your mines will get into action all the sooner. Add on long range comms, and you have the flexibility to run away from enemy ships while your B-wings sit on their nose and shoot, shoot, shoot.

Adding some silly bombers is a great idea that gives the build some flexibility in tactics on the table.

Pair that up with an AFIIB with flight controllers and expanded hangars for some flexibility in countering enemy squadrons...activate with whichever ship best fits the situation. Throw in Yavaris for more fun.

It leaves the ships pretty bare bones, but I'd expect the squadrons to do most of the heavy lifting.

I've started to contemplate Independence as well. That's pretty funny considering I was one of those that dismissed it outright with the initial reveal. I've been wargaming with it and the speed 4 B-Wings are a serious and legitimate threat, especially when you can then keep them moving and shooting after that first move using Boosted Comms. You aren't going to shoot in the first turn, so you're not losing anything by moving them and not shooting except maybe a command token (pair with Garm and this is no longer an issue).

Boosted Comms more than anything is the squadron game changer for this wave. The threat radius for squadrons just got enormous. I'm terrified of Rhymer balls now, especially if those bastards have Intel floating nearby.

my avatar is apparently the last of the X-wing miniatures avatars

I would offer imperial advice, but due to the nature of basically everyone else playing empire around here I am the designated rebel scum for all but a handful of games. Closest the imps can get to Sillies are either Firesprays or Rhymer Ball, and I'm sure they'll be quite effective too!

So you admit that you are part of the Rebel Alliance and a traitor.

Take him away!

I'm not quite sure why these bombers are called 'silly', but you are a Rebel and your thinking about this sort of subject is bound to be heretical to begin with.

From the perspective of a Rhymerballer, it seems that I should have simply faced the Ackbar threat as I had been facing the way I had been destroying rebels and disloyal Imperial factions all along - send in the bombers! It was my desire to play with my new toys that got me in trouble.

my avatar is apparently the last of the X-wing miniatures avatars

I would offer imperial advice, but due to the nature of basically everyone else playing empire around here I am the designated rebel scum for all but a handful of games. Closest the imps can get to Sillies are either Firesprays or Rhymer Ball, and I'm sure they'll be quite effective too!

So you admit that you are part of the Rebel Alliance and a traitor.

Take him away!

I'm not quite sure why these bombers are called 'silly', but you are a Rebel and your thinking about this sort of subject is bound to be heretical to begin with.

From the perspective of a Rhymerballer, it seems that I should have simply faced the Ackbar threat as I had been facing the way I had been destroying rebels and disloyal Imperial factions all along - send in the bombers! It was my desire to play with my new toys that got me in trouble.

I'd have to see exactly how the battle went down, but based on the fact that you had FOUR SHIPS IN RANGE TO SHOOT YOU, I'm going to guess that you probably got a little charge happy. Silly Imperial.

I've been contemplating the anti-Ackbar as well, after watching a double MC80 list in action last night. My main thought was to build around Independence as a way to get your B-wings into the fight. You should still use them as minefields, but your mines will get into action all the sooner. Add on long range comms, and you have the flexibility to run away from enemy ships while your B-wings sit on their nose and shoot, shoot, shoot.

Adding some silly bombers is a great idea that gives the build some flexibility in tactics on the table.

Pair that up with an AFIIB with flight controllers and expanded hangars for some flexibility in countering enemy squadrons...activate with whichever ship best fits the situation. Throw in Yavaris for more fun.

It leaves the ships pretty bare bones, but I'd expect the squadrons to do most of the heavy lifting.

I've started to contemplate Independence as well. That's pretty funny considering I was one of those that dismissed it outright with the initial reveal. I've been wargaming with it and the speed 4 B-Wings are a serious and legitimate threat, especially when you can then keep them moving and shooting after that first move using Boosted Comms. You aren't going to shoot in the first turn, so you're not losing anything by moving them and not shooting except maybe a command token (pair with Garm and this is no longer an issue).

Boosted Comms more than anything is the squadron game changer for this wave. The threat radius for squadrons just got enormous. I'm terrified of Rhymer balls now, especially if those bastards have Intel floating nearby.

Agreed. On turn 1, you have basically nothing to lose by moving the B-wings at speed 4 (unless you're first player in forward deployment during Fleet Ambush, perhaps). Add a Gallant escort at close range, or a Yavaris escort skirting around medium range, and things should escalate quickly on turn 2.

I'd have to see exactly how the battle went down, but based on the fact that you had FOUR SHIPS IN RANGE TO SHOOT YOU, I'm going to guess that you probably got a little charge happy. Silly Imperial.

Hehe, I was playing with Admiral Ozzel!

Besides, there's just something fun about two Imperial star destroyers going speed three in close range of one another, and both executing a 2-yaw turn at the end to change their heading and head after the Rebel fleet. (No, the bases did not collide with one another.)

Was it smart? No.

But it was fun!

Agreed. On turn 1, you have basically nothing to lose by moving the B-wings at speed 4 (unless you're first player in forward deployment during Fleet Ambush, perhaps). Add a Gallant escort at close range, or a Yavaris escort skirting around medium range, and things should escalate quickly on turn 2.

I've been looking at it from the Yavaris angle. You can get those B-Wings in medium range double tapping, but keeping yourself at long range from the enemy ship. Even with just average rolls, I'm killing ISDs in a single round of attacks on turn 2. This is under admittedly ideal and controlled conditions (first player, minimal enemy fighter support and/or easily neutralized with Intel, ISD gunning straight for my fleet), but it's still impressive to watch.

Against imps B wing mines work well as they have to come at you, vs rebels they will be happy to skirt your bs

at long range as long as they can shoot ships. Unless the mission draws them in.

indeed, which is why Silly Bombers have my attention

or Independence, as several people have brought up

Here's an example of what I'm thinking:

Going All-In: Rebel Bombers! (390 points)

MC80 Command Cruiser (150 points)

Garm, Boosted Comms, ECM, Independence

Assault Frigate Mk. IIB (90 points)

Expanded Hangars, ECM, Flight Controllers

CR90B (39 points)

(Naked)

Squadrons: (111 points)

A-Wing x1

B-Wing x3

Scurrg x2

X-Wing x2

Objectives: Precision Strike, Contested Outpost, Superior Positions

This list gives you fairly survivable carriers, a long reach, enough activations to be competitive, enough squadron commands to cover everyone, enough squadrons to outflank a minimal fighter screen, and a 10 point bid to ensure you go first (if you want). The Independence can fling 5 squadrons at speed 4 (you choose B's and X's, or B's and Sillies) first turn, and then should play keep-away from enemy ships while the bombers do their work. If you face enemy squadrons, the AF should take the lead and boost whoever needs it. The list packs enough anti-squadron firepower that it should handle anything except a maximum fighter list. The Silly Bombers can operate as part of the blob, or can head out independently to flank/chase down stragglers. The Mon Cal and AF should conga line well together, and ought to be able to take down anything that makes it through your bombers.

Now, it would have been nice to get engine techs onto the MC80 for even more keep-away fun, but this would have required navigation commands instead of squadron commands. And the CR90 doesn't quite fit with the rest of the list (though it could act as a close range escort). Raider and CR90 swarms operating at speed 4 will be difficult to tackle. And a dedicated 133 point TIE fighter list with Howlrunner, Mauler, Soontir, etc etc would probably win out.

I've considered replacing the AF with Yavaris, and using the extra points for Keyan+Adar, or for more squadrons. I'm hesitant to do that as Yavaris has to be closer to work, is more vulnerable with in formation with the MC80, and doesn't have flight controllers. But double taps might still be worth it...

The more I think about this list, the more I like it. At long range, a single activation with Indepenence can throw 4 reds, 3 blues, and 3 blacks (3 B's and an X) - without using a token. In fact, the 4 blues and 4 blacks can hit beyond long range, if your squadrons are appropriately positioned (that's what turn 1 was for). The Scurrgs throw in their dice on their own in the squadron phase.

You could fiddle with the squadron mix...would a pile of Y-wings be better? Certainly more durable, but you have to balance sheer number of squadrons vs ability to activate them, or you risk getting cut up piecemeal. What about adding force multipliers such as Jan Ors, or a YT-1300? I focused on getting as much offensive output as possible, but perhaps more durable squadrons would end up putting out more damage over the course of the game?

I'm eager to see what holes we can shoot in this...before it hits the tabletop.

Speaking of Yavaris, here's my planned break down:

MC80 Command Cruiser

-Garm

-Independence

-ECMs

-Boosted Comms

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate

-Yavaris

Nebulon-B Support Frigate

-Salvation

-XI7 Turbolasers

-Wedge

-Dutch

-Jan

-Keyan

-3x B-Wings

392/400