The ships are all good to great, but that Lando Upgrade ....

What am I missing?

Force Screed to re-roll one of his recently converted hit-crits? I dunno. It's like a mini-evade token.

Iggy's for soonts or jans, I guess ?

Aggressor is basically a worse firespray unless the meta becomes real squadron heavy

imo, the only real oddity is the yv-666. it's a dedicated anti-squadron rogue with heavy; very bizarre

Yeah I think the idea is IG-88 is a meta response to specific squadron builds, notably to take out Intel ships through an Escort screen I would assume.

Aggressor seems like roughly an Imperial rogue X-Wing for +3 points. I agree that the Firespray seems superior for now, but it's conceivable that with enough squadrons it could have time to shine.

The YV-666 does seem like a mystery. Basically I see it as running CAP (due to the low speed) and desiring some kind of cheap fighter escort (TIE Fighter, most likely) to keep enemy squadrons stuck in place while it hammers on them. It can't get stuck in place by a single sacrificial squadron, so it can keep chasing after bombers... I admit that's a stretch, though. I'll have to play around with it and see if there's something I'm not seeing just yet.

The firespray is not very efficient anti-squadron. It's on par with a TIE bomber. The aggressor is a nice anti-squadron addition to your all GSD1 build and perfect for trumping the enemy Firesprays.

The ships are all good to great, but that Lando Upgrade ....

What am I missing?

Force Screed to re-roll one of his recently converted hit-crits? I dunno. It's like a mini-evade token.

No, force him to reroll ALL of his hits and/or crits. It's like a 1 use MEGA evade.

No bad ships in wave 2 as far as I can tell.

Except the raider.

Have some evades! But no long range duce.

Oh, you're dedicated anti-ship? Well, here's some black dice. You now have the shortest anti-fighter range, and a title that says squadrons MUST attack you if you get close. Oh and two dice is enough to stop the following squadrons:

Except that's not what the title does. It locks squadrons with Grit in place AND isn't affected by intel, both of which are extremely relevant at this point. If you're running an anti-squadron raider WITHOUT a pair of TIE escorts, you're pretty plainly "doing it wrong".

As for those dice, I think you're looking at them the wrong way.

A Raider-I with two black dice and Ordnance Experts can absolutely SHRED squadrons in combination with even a few lowly TIEs in support lending a hand. By far the most dangerous anti-squadron ship we've seen, and still capable of punching into a ship afterward.

One pass from the Instigator will slow an approaching bomb wing down and damage every squadron in it significantly, or tie up a special Grit rogue to prevent him from hitting what he wants for a turn.

The Impetuous can pretty reliably deal a minimum of two damage to any squadron with brace, not to mention forcing them to spend their braces before your squadrons ever start firing.

I've been cruising a pair of raiders around the table, and I plan to buy a handful more once the wave drops officially. Love em.

The firespray is not very efficient anti-squadron. It's on par with a TIE bomber. The aggressor is a nice anti-squadron addition to your all GSD1 build and perfect for trumping the enemy Firesprays.

we have to be careful when comparing to bombers

they're on par with Tie Bombers specifically when it comes to expected anti-squadron damage per point spent

this is an essentiaal distinction because firesprays lack heavy and have rogue; making them far and away superior at dealing with squadrons than bombers could ever hope to be (even if they remain cost inefficient; they're not helpless)

Having played none of the Wave 2 ships, here are my thought (being a rebel player):

ISD - Awesome. Speed 3 monster.

MC80 - Looks like an awesome anchor for a rebel fleet. Spd 2 is sad, so, Engine Techs.

Raider - Awesome. Looks like a great support for the imps. Increases their activations at a low price and brings some anti-squadron.

MC30 - I'll buy one but honestly it seems very points-intensive for a suicide ship and runs very differently than the way I like to run. Not sure I will use it much.

Rogues and Villains - Disappointed here. Two reasons: 1 - So many rules means more things to remember or worry about. 2 - Sad that they will likely supplant the traditional fighters.

Ackbar - Wave Winner!

I think I do not know becuase it ain't been released yet... you dirty rotten (EARLY) crab you!

:lol:

I love all of the new ships and all of the old ships... bet yeah the model is just as cool as everything else. Game wise considering what the expansion brings it has a lot of win.

...from what I can see (since I have not bought into ARMADA officially yet) it is all good in Wave II.

I'm not a fan of the Raider. Not necessarily because its bad, in fact i think its really good, but because it doesn't fit with the Empire's naval philosopy. Not having excellent small & maneuvrable capital ships to counter fighters is persistently shown as being the Empire's main weakness throughout both the movies and the EU that came after. In fact the Lancer-class was designed post-Yavin just to counter fighters, but had major flaws in that it was slow, unmaneuvrable and poorly shielded. Now suddenly we have this awesome ship that locks down fighters, is highly maneuvrable and fast, and still packs a punch vs capital ships too. Just doesn't make sense.

The generic YT-1300. At two speed, it's only good at escorting B's. For the same price, an X-wing gives you far more flexibility and is a far more dangerous escort (and anti-ship threat... and less lore-breaking than a pack of Han wannabes). And yes... I know it's a squadron in Armada, but c'mon, we all know the Falcon's a ship.

On a more serious note, I don't think any of the Armada "ships" are bad, but there are definitely some where the cost + risk seems to outweigh the expected reward, or where the cost + risk outweighs the tactical flexibility of the unit. For Wave I, that was the Neb for me (and, in certain games and lists, a Vic I... not that we had much choice in Wave I...). For wave II, I feel like the MC-30 sees the greatest disparity between cost/risk and expected reward/flexibility. For a lot more than a Neb, and just marginally less than an AFII (assuming it's naked, no title), it's got less hull and shields than an AFII, and no brace to make up for it. With the recent change to XI7, this will hurt more than we originally thought. It's tactical advantages are small: it's a speed 4 gunboat, so that's something, but it really wants to be up close, where it's most vulnerable. With Ordnance Experts, you have a pretty good shot at triggering a crit effect, but it's not guaranteed in the same way a Glad + Ordnance Experts + Screed (or Vader) can virtually guarantee a black crit, even after Evade rerolls. And it's significantly more expensive than a Glad I with those upgrades, and probably similar cost to an AFII, but less sturdy than both against anything with XI7s.

The Raider isn't much of an improvement in survivability (at least on paper, we'll see when they hit the tables), but they double as anti-squadron cover and as a speed 4 ship, both of which the Empire sorely needed. They're also quite a bit cheaper, so the points you have to invest in them isn't nearly as high. A fully-upgraded anti-squadron or anti-ship Raider is hard-pressed to come in at over 60 points (unless it's your flagship). Ultimately, similar risk but at significantly less cost, and with far more tactical flexibility and chance of reward with the Raider, than what you get with the MC-30.

This is not to say the MC-30 doesn't have its uses or that they're bad, but there's less tactical options with them than with the similarly-priced AFII (if you're keeping them at long range with Ackbar, you're better off having an AFII with Gunnery Teams in almost every case; which means to win back value, they have to be close-range; they're also inferior carriers and have less engineering, so again, that's a tactical limitation). You can of course shore their weaknesses up with certain commanders (Reikken or Mon Mothma), or with gameplay built around a commander's strengths that avoids the ship's inherent weaknesses (kiting with Ackbar), but in either case, that's more tactical limitations and telegraphing. It's hard to come up with more than a couple of scenarios (close-range double-arc shot on a solitary ISD that I achieved through superior activation economy) where I wouldn't rather have an AFII.

I don't understand the analysis of the mc30

First, the incredible black dice payload and expanded Nav chart give it MORE options than the afmk2, not less. The exchange is it loses durability and squadron support.

Second, just because it has black dice doesn't mean it wants to be in close range. It just means it CAN (with benefit, as opposed to the fattie which just doesn't want to be there). Add foresight and Akbar, and you got long range superiority.

The afmk2 is not strictly superior, not even close. Its a different Ship.

Akbar will almost certainly be better served by taking a mix of these broadsides, rather than just crutching on one type. The shrimp provides maneuverability and a close range options that fatties simply do not have. Fatties, meanwhile, won't crumple in a stiff breeze .

I've been waiting on the MC80 since the game was launched, and they've shown me very little to keep me from getting excited about that sucker. My finances are very tight right now, and I won't be buying everything day one, but the MC80 will definetely be my first purchase.

I don't really see anything that "sucks" in wave 2, and very little I don't want at least one of. If I had to rank from most to least wanted, Raider probably is last, but I'm mostly a Rebel commander anyway.

I don't understand the analysis of the mc30

First, the incredible black dice payload and expanded Nav chart give it MORE options than the afmk2, not less. The exchange is it loses durability and squadron support.

Second, just because it has black dice doesn't mean it wants to be in close range. It just means it CAN (with benefit, as opposed to the fattie which just doesn't want to be there). Add foresight and Akbar, and you got long range superiority.

The afmk2 is not strictly superior, not even close. Its a different Ship.

Akbar will almost certainly be better served by taking a mix of these broadsides, rather than just crutching on one type. The shrimp provides maneuverability and a close range options that fatties simply do not have. Fatties, meanwhile, won't crumple in a stiff breeze .

It's a lot of black dice, but last I checked, you still have to use them at close range. This ship wants to be at close range, but doesn't have the wherewithal to stay there against any of the heavy hitters. Activation advantage is your friend, but this ship isn't cheap (easily Vic/AFII territory with any upgrades), so it's not doing you any favors if you're trying to have more ships than your opponent.

All I'm saying is that there's a lot of cost + risk tied up in maximizing this ship's potential. To be used to the fullest, it needs to be in black range: either because you go there or you force your opponent to come there. For a similar cost, an AFII has more hull, brace, and doesn't lose hardly any oompf if you stay at arms length the entire game. You can take the Shrimp if you want insurance against a close-up rush (Glad spam?), but if that rush never comes (or you're up against an opponent who's content to slug it out at long range), it's not going to be giving you as much as an AFII.

I agree they're not the same ship (though it's not insignificantly more expensive than its nearest comparison, a Glad I). In a 1 vs. 1 fight, in a vacuum, the MC-30 probably wins consistently over the AFII. But in a full-on fleet engagement, where there are multiple ships, I feel there's less risk and more mileage to be had in taking an AFII over an MC-30, at basically the same price point.

Just my two cents.

Hum at the two event i ran with the mc80 iy took a beaying and keep on ticking. I dont see the assault frig being able live through a glad frontal shot amd two bow shots from a ISD.

You said a assauly has dame fire power as a MC80 i disagree. The assault is 3 red/1 blue side. With EA that 4/1 and ackbar it becomes 6/1. While the mc80 is 3R/3B stock with ackbar that be 5R/3B and you can toss on x17 vs EA. With 3 blue you have a better shot at locking down his brace and other defense tokens.

Yes it slow, but can take a beat down. Where i seen a ISD get scuttled by two VSD II and a rhymer ball in a single turn

I like to think of the MC30 as insurance. It's a deterrent against any (and I mean ANY) ship that wants to close to close range with the rest of your fleet.

And enemy fleets will likely want to get up close, unless you're up against another kiting fleet. In which case the shrimp frigate doesn't mind getting in THEIR face, which it can do with speed 4.

YMMV, but I take comfort in having insurance.

If I had to rate the ships (No upgrades).

1st Place: Raider I-Class Corvette.

Look, I've been dancing around Imperial players for these last few months. Why do you ask? Because I've abused my fast attack options! At medium range my CR-90 A outfitted with Enhanced Armaments (My normal setup) can obtain a max combined "die to roll" (DTR) of 5 red and 2 blue die (If you include Concentrate Fire)! And you'd be surprised how often I get to pull off a two hull zone / one target attack. The Victory Class Star Destroyer is a very big target, and it's kinda hard to miss.

Now we have a newcomer, a nice little underdog that at I scoffed at in the beginning. But lets take a look at this thing! I don't think it's built to wreck a CR-90 (Trust me... 1 v 1 a CR-90 would win). But with that impressive frontal ark, we can get (Lets just throw Expanded Launchers on there) a max combined DTR of 6 Black and 3 Blue Die (With Concentrate Fire)! And with the tightest un-assisted turn radiuses in the game, I can see this little dart dodging around a MC-80 and just punishing that behind!

2nd Place: MC-80 Command Cruiser

This is another one of those, "Hey Olwen?" the author asks his internet pen name. "Yea? What's up?" Olwen replies. The author furrows his brow trying to look serious "If I could make a ship... any ship that would utterly destroy the huge advantages that you've been able to enjoy over the last few months. How would you describe it?". Olwen looks shocked, even inhales sharply as if surprised "Well I would create a flying fortress of DEATH! One that can shoot the equivalent of a Victory II-Class Star Destroyer from two hull zones that take up the majority of the model's base! For just under 65 points less than two VSD II-Class." kind of moments.

Lets all have a moment of silence; and let that sink in.

3rd Place: MC-30 Scout Frigate

Look... If you have a need for speed? This thing can go speed 4!

You want to stay as far away from your enemy as possible while still dealing damage? It's got red die!

Oh wait! It's time to deal some real damage to the enemy? ("Oh no! What ever shall we do!!" Cried the author) Woah! It's Okay! We got black die!

And... if that's not enough for you. It's just survivable enough to play both rolls! ("BAM! Peace out! Mic drop!")

The problem with this one. Is that you need to be REALLY good with your command dial. That speed chart... Still not happy about that.

4th Place: You guessed it! The venerable Imperial Class Star Destroyer.

After all the hype. All the waiting. And totally, not quivering in my sneakers. Fantasy Flight Games just regurgitated a bigger and (And slightly) more powerful form of a Victory Class Star Destroyer. Only 2 extra die on the front ark. Only one more on the sides and rear. I mean... Dude... I was expecting something more. And for only 40 extra points. I can get two VSD II-Class.

And I know some people are going to scream "But it's speed 3 Olwen! That's Awesome!". As an occasional turncoat I should tell you. Your speed and lack of maneuverability, only helps your opponent.

The ships are all good to great, but that Lando Upgrade ....

What am I missing?

Force Screed to re-roll one of his recently converted hit-crits? I dunno. It's like a mini-evade token.

No, force him to reroll ALL of his hits and/or crits. It's like a 1 use MEGA evade.

Naw, make them reroll the accuracy dice. Since they have already passed the phase where they assign accuracy dice and fiddle with the dice to get more accuracy dice. You've got a 75% shot at freeing that critical brace token, redirect or evade. If their other rolls that have hit turn into accuracy dice, tough toboggins, they've missed the correct phase to assign accuracy dice to tokens.

The ships are all good to great, but that Lando Upgrade ....

What am I missing?

Force Screed to re-roll one of his recently converted hit-crits? I dunno. It's like a mini-evade token.

No, force him to reroll ALL of his hits and/or crits. It's like a 1 use MEGA evade.

Naw, make them reroll the accuracy dice. Since they have already passed the phase where they assign accuracy dice and fiddle with the dice to get more accuracy dice. You've got a 75% shot at freeing that critical brace token, redirect or evade. If their other rolls that have hit turn into accuracy dice, tough toboggins, they've missed the correct phase to assign accuracy dice to tokens.

Is that really how that would work? Wouldn't they then get to assign the re-rolled accuracy? Seems counter-intuitive, but certainly would make Lando more powerful.

The ships are all good to great, but that Lando Upgrade ....

What am I missing?

Force Screed to re-roll one of his recently converted hit-crits? I dunno. It's like a mini-evade token.

No, force him to reroll ALL of his hits and/or crits. It's like a 1 use MEGA evade.

Naw, make them reroll the accuracy dice. Since they have already passed the phase where they assign accuracy dice and fiddle with the dice to get more accuracy dice. You've got a 75% shot at freeing that critical brace token, redirect or evade. If their other rolls that have hit turn into accuracy dice, tough toboggins, they've missed the correct phase to assign accuracy dice to tokens.

Is that really how that would work? Wouldn't they then get to assign the re-rolled accuracy? Seems counter-intuitive, but certainly would make Lando more powerful.

Accuracy results are spent to negate the ability to spend the specific token. They are litterally no longer there to be re-rolled by Evades or Lando.

I highly suggest that people become more deliberate in their resolving of their attacks. Not resolving attacks in the manner the rules actually describe leads to incorrect concepts about how various effects may function.