So we recently had no less than 3 topics discussing the imperial elite fighter, and we seem to have decided on a good fix for it. But the Rebel Ewing is in a worse position, with only one pilot ever being taken outside epic.

What makes corran good? Is he good, or is he just decent at convienet point total for a 2 ship list? Would "Fixing" the Ewing make him as OP as Advanced fix Vader, or can we design a fix that corran doesnt like?

What is the Ewing good at? it's got tie advance durability with a better gun and better dial, and it's got both a System and Astromech slot. What does the Ewing need to be worth it's points?

What new upgrade cards help the Ewing that we may be overlooking? (Juke, for instance) What kind of combos work on the Ewing... and what kind of combos SHOULD work on the Ewing, if it had the right slot or pilot ability?

Lets have a good discussion here. Dont let this thread die till we get our Rogue Squadron Ace Pack.

Targeting astromech may function as a sort of savior

I say sort of because red vets have native epts while blackmoons don't

Crackshot/juke seem to be the future of mid PS ships and the blackmoon can run either with r2-d6 and FCS but the t-70 stole its thunder ito useable generics

On the other hand eathn was always great; corran just lived for the 2 ship meta with PS 8 and doubletap for fat ships

Now-outdated fix the E-Wing thread.

I think most of what was said back then still holds true. There is some design space in astromechs, modifications, and title upgrades to fix the E-wing. A good fix will take Corran Horn into account, but I think we can point to Darth Vader as an example of how even a very aggressive fix does not necessarily put a relatively good ace pilot (relative to other ships of the same type) over the top.

Perhaps we could also see a discounted tech slot at this point. A card that exchanged the system or astromech slot for a tech slot and discounted it may be interesting. a lot of the upgrades that make CH really dangerous are in those two slots. Take them away and you may defang CH relative to the other E-wings, and elevate them to a similar plane of balance.

R2-D2 makes Corran good. No doubt about it. Any new, cheap, offensive astro would help generic E's quite a bit.

Etahn and Corran are good. Generics are in a weird spot. That's about it.

E-wing stares longingly at the T-70 and thinks "Shoulda been me... :("

The first thing is to figure out the E-wing's role. I don't know what it's supposed to do now with the T-70 being what it is.

I think the fix is similar to the Advanced, it needs a unique System upgrade.

Corran is good, but so is Etahn, as his ability works on himself.

The real problem is that they are overcosted, meaning the generics NEVER get fielded, and they only have 2 hull, leaving them vulnerable to being 1-shotted by Adv. Homing Missile and the influx of proton bomb's new viability.

Astromechs could be a fix, systems could be a fix, Titles are always a potential fix, and anything that is E-Wing specific, like a E-Wing only mod, or E-Wing only System could also be a fix. I'd like to see the E-Wing become leave the world of 3-attack dice ships and become a 3+ ship. Meaning that you can add either a damage, a crit, or cancel defender dice... or optionally add an extra die.

I'd like to see a Torpedo slot option that could be a viable solution for not JUST the E-Wing, but any ship that has only a single torpedo slot. Maybe something like a 1-time extra damage die on primary attack, that you discard when using. Make it E-Wing or X-Wing only perhaps?

Blackmoon and Onyx both need EPT slots. Period.

At no further cost, period.

Maybe a systems upgrade that offers a continued reward for as long as you attack every turn. If there is a turn that you do NOT attack, then you lose the bonus?

Beginning of combat - If you attacked the last two turns, you may take a free action.

Another thing to consider is that lore wise, the Ewing and the R7 astromech were made for each other. But in this game, the only overlap is with FCS.

What about a Ewing only mod, title or system to the tune of "when you spend a Target lock, gain a target lock on the same target immediately." So in a joust you can drop a torpedo with TL bonus and still R7 the return fire.

The only real solution that I see for E-Wings is to give them something along the lines of a Chardaan Refit to modify their cost. Etahn and Horn are great, but they quickly become points sinks when you start to add upgrades.

Etahn costs the same amount of points as Whisper; Horn? There's only one small based pilot who costs more.

If you wanted to see more E-Wings on the table I reckon that you'd need to knock 2-3 points off the base cost. If that happened a fully loaded Etahn (well the way I load him) would come out at 39 or 40pts -

Etahn A'baht

R2-D2, PTL, AS

Cheers

Baaa

The only real solution that I see for E-Wings is to give them something along the lines of a Chardaan Refit to modify their cost. Etahn and Horn are great, but they quickly become points sinks when you start to add upgrades.

Thankfully, I believe the designers are more creative than that.

The only real solution that I see for E-Wings is to give them something along the lines of a Chardaan Refit to modify their cost. Etahn and Horn are great, but they quickly become points sinks when you start to add upgrades.

Thankfully, I believe the designers are more creative than that.

So the designers are going to make an already overpriced, underused ship more attractive by adding more expensive upgrades?

An E-Wing only Title. What exactly is that going to do? Take an upgrade slot to provide another upgrade slot that costs more points?

More Astromechs? Unless you make them E-Wing only they're going to be put on every other ship that can has an Astromech slot; so where does that leave the E-Wing? On the shelf where it is at the moment.

Cheers

Baaa

The only real solution that I see for E-Wings is to give them something along the lines of a Chardaan Refit to modify their cost. Etahn and Horn are great, but they quickly become points sinks when you start to add upgrades.

Thankfully, I believe the designers are more creative than that.

Probably; so far every 'fix' has used different mechanics as far as I know. Chaardan refit was a little ham-handed if you ask me; it highly discourages use of any missile upgrades in an environment where missiles are hardly ever taken. It would have been better as a -2 point modification or title to the A-wing. (Although the mod slot now competes for Autothrusters)

So the designers are going to make an already overpriced, underused ship more attractive by adding more expensive upgrades?

An E-Wing only Title. What exactly is that going to do? Take an upgrade slot to provide another upgrade slot that costs more points?

More Astromechs? Unless you make them E-Wing only they're going to be put on every other ship that can has an Astromech slot; so where does that leave the E-Wing? On the shelf where it is at the moment.

Cheers

Baaa

They could create a fix more along the lines of the Advanced fix, offering a new, heavily discounted slot instead of a more straight-up discount, or offer some other free upgrade specific to the E. There are many more options other than a discount.

The only real solution that I see for E-Wings is to give them something along the lines of a Chardaan Refit to modify their cost. Etahn and Horn are great, but they quickly become points sinks when you start to add upgrades.

Thankfully, I believe the designers are more creative than that.

So the designers are going to make an already overpriced, underused ship more attractive by adding more expensive upgrades?

An E-Wing only Title. What exactly is that going to do? Take an upgrade slot to provide another upgrade slot that costs more points?

More Astromechs? Unless you make them E-Wing only they're going to be put on every other ship that can has an Astromech slot; so where does that leave the E-Wing? On the shelf where it is at the moment.

Cheers

Baaa

Or, they could make something along the lines of the V1 title, something that adds some unique ability to all E-wings. You cannot limit yourself to thinking about adding slots or reducing costs. Or thinking of fixes as one piece.

E-wing stares longingly at the T-70 and thinks "Shoulda been me... :("

The first thing is to figure out the E-wing's role. I don't know what it's supposed to do now with the T-70 being what it is.

I think the fix is similar to the Advanced, it needs a unique System upgrade.

Poe with R5-P9 & Autothrusters > Corran Horn with FCS and R2-D2 and Shield upgrade.

Cost of Poe build < cost of Corran build.

Nuff said, the E-wing has been replaced with a cheaper and more powerful option.

E-wing stares longingly at the T-70 and thinks "Shoulda been me... :("

The first thing is to figure out the E-wing's role. I don't know what it's supposed to do now with the T-70 being what it is.

I think the fix is similar to the Advanced, it needs a unique System upgrade.

Poe with R5-P9 & Autothrusters > Corran Horn with FCS and R2-D2 and Shield upgrade.

Cost of Poe build < cost of Corran build.

Nuff said, the E-wing has been replaced with a cheaper and more powerful option.

No.

So the designers are going to make an already overpriced, underused ship more attractive by adding more expensive upgrades?

An E-Wing only Title. What exactly is that going to do? Take an upgrade slot to provide another upgrade slot that costs more points?

More Astromechs? Unless you make them E-Wing only they're going to be put on every other ship that can has an Astromech slot; so where does that leave the E-Wing? On the shelf where it is at the moment.

Cheers

Baaa

They could create a fix more along the lines of the Advanced fix, offering a new, heavily discounted slot instead of a more straight-up discount, or offer some other free upgrade specific to the E. There are many more options other than a discount.

The Tie Advanced Title gives you a 4 point System Upgrade slot for 0 points. So if you use it, you're effectively getting up to 4 pt discount off the base cost of the ship.

Cheers

Baaa

So the designers are going to make an already overpriced, underused ship more attractive by adding more expensive upgrades?

An E-Wing only Title. What exactly is that going to do? Take an upgrade slot to provide another upgrade slot that costs more points?

More Astromechs? Unless you make them E-Wing only they're going to be put on every other ship that can has an Astromech slot; so where does that leave the E-Wing? On the shelf where it is at the moment.

Cheers

Baaa

They could create a fix more along the lines of the Advanced fix, offering a new, heavily discounted slot instead of a more straight-up discount, or offer some other free upgrade specific to the E. There are many more options other than a discount.

The Tie Advanced Title gives you a 4 point System Upgrade slot for 0 points. So if you use it, you're effectively getting up to 4 pt discount off the base cost of the ship.

Cheers

Baaa

There's a discount in there, but it's a far cry from a straight-up discount. It's a much more nuanced fix than a simple discount from the base cost, and as far as I'm concerned is the gold standard for fixes right now.

Recently played with:

Blackmoon Squadron Pilot

R2-D6

Lone Wolf

Sensor Jammer

Stealth Device

Actually wasn't that bad, and incredibly survivable. Though uncomfortably expensive (39pts...). I'll probably drop the SD in the future (and down to a more reasonable 35pts!), as LW and SJ were the bits really responsible for keeping him alive. He's definitely nice for trolling TLT carries with. Didn't help any I was flying him with a pair of no-Procket As, which meant I was incredibly tanky but had little killing power (especially if the BSP is busy running in circles staying alive). But drop the SD, switch up some EPTs... can at least get one volley in there! Prockets for both if I sacrifice thrusters from one...

Or, they could make something along the lines of the V1 title, something that adds some unique ability to all E-wings. You cannot limit yourself to thinking about adding slots or reducing costs. Or thinking of fixes as one piece.

The problem with any title fix for the E-Wing is that you have to make a title slot for it. To me, there's only one logical place to put that, and that's in the Torpedo slot.

Is it going to be a 0 pt title? It would need to be and the title effect would need to be really good, or we're back to adding points to an already expensive ship.

I'm not disagreeing that there are a lot of good ways to make the E-Wing more attractive; but let's be honest, the real reason that we don't see too many of them are that they're simply too expensive.

Cheers

Baaa

There's a discount in there, but it's a far cry from a straight-up discount. It's a much more nuanced fix than a simple discount from the base cost, and as far as I'm concerned is the gold standard for fixes right now.

I'm not disagreeing that the Tie Advanced Title is great; but the Tie Advanced named pilots were better value for points before the fix than the generic Knave Sqn Pilot.

Only Juno and Vader cost more than a PS1 generic.

Cheers

Baaa

Or, they could make something along the lines of the V1 title, something that adds some unique ability to all E-wings. You cannot limit yourself to thinking about adding slots or reducing costs. Or thinking of fixes as one piece.

The problem with any title fix for the E-Wing is that you have to make a title slot for it. To me, there's only one logical place to put that, and that's in the Torpedo slot.

Is it going to be a 0 pt title? It would need to be and the title effect would need to be really good, or we're back to adding points to an already expensive ship.

I'm not disagreeing that there are a lot of good ways to make the E-Wing more attractive; but let's be honest, the real reason that we don't see too many of them are that they're simply too expensive.

Cheers

Baaa

We don't see them because they're not cost-effective, not because they're expensive - there's an important distinction there. You could definitely give them an upgrade that cost points, but made them worth the cost.

For an unreasonable example:

[system]: E-wing only. When defending, you may cancel enemy [hits] and [crits] with your [blank] results. 1 point.

Now there's an upgrade I would buy, and would make E-wings very competitive, I suspect. And it still cost me 1 point.

Also, ships don't need a 'title slot' to take titles. Any ship can take titles, in the same way any ship can take modification upgrades. There is no 'title slot'.