I've just started running Dark Heresy, and I have quite a few story ideas, but there's one that I've got in my head that really excites me, and I'd like to bounce it off of all of you to see what you think.

The rules for warp travel mention that a vessel in the Immaterium can sometimes arrive at it's destination before it leaves, which gave me an interesting idea. The players' Inquisitor receives an astropathic message from [insert hiveworld of your choice]. The message is urgent; a warp breach has occurred on the planet, millions are dead, civil order has been lost, and the government is crumbling. The Inquisitor contacts all of her acolyte squads and instructs them to rendevous at [hiveworld] in an attempt to restor order. The PC acolyte squad boards a vessel headed for [hiveworld] and makes the warp journey, only to discover that they've arrived two days before the reported warp breach. They now have 48 standard hours in which to discover the cause and put a stop to it before millions die.

Basically, it's a plot stolen from about a billion sci-fi shows.

Now comes the tricky part. If the PCs stop the warp breach, then their Inquisitor won't receive the astropathic message asking for assistance, which means that she won't send the squad to stop it (ah, time travel stories are always a headache). This would mean that the PCs will be at [hiveworld], while at the same time their past selves are in another part of the sector. There are now two sets of them. Is there any precedent in the the 40k universe for situations like these? I mean, the "arrive before you left" idea is canon, so has it ever been brought up before? How has it been handled? How do YOU think it should be handled?

Any input that you could give me would be greatly appreciated.

Whelp said:

IIRC, there was an anecdotal story i heard where this happened to an Ork Warboss. he ended up hunting himself down and killing himself because he really loved his gun and that way, he could loot himself have two of the gun he really liked.

However, if you want to take a more reasonable path less open to farce, then perhaps the whole flow of time isn't quite as malleable as you would initially think. Granted, if one were to arrive somewhere else before they leave, they would still need to leave in order to arrive. This absolutely must happen and time will insure it dose, usually, as all things in the universe, by fallowing the path of least resistance.

So, the PC's head out to plug a warp hole, they arrive 2 days before said hole opens and stops it from opening in the first place. To time, the reason they were sent to that planet is irrelevant, only that they warped to it. So, they plug it up and contact their Inquisitor who, knowing where his or her acolytes are (which is no where near that planet) never mind the fact that there's no reports of a warp breach there, is suspicious. Wanting to get to the bottom of things, the Inquisitor sends out the team of acolytes to investigate who will arrive 48 hours earlier, stop a warp breach, and all is as it should be... with just a few very minor snags.

For extra points, it could have been them arriving 2 days too early that caused the events that opened the warp breach in the first place that made them go and investigate, going back in time to cause the events that would create the warp breach and then sealing it up thus causing the event that would have them sent out to investigate possible warp breaches, or doplegangers, or cone men, or...

Edit: even more bonus points if they are initially sent out to investigate people claiming to be them claiming to have sealed up a warp breach from the git-go!

It seems to me the notion that there would be 2 sets of acolytes is fascinating to the extreme. It may bring up the question of what set of acolytes is "real". Imagine that a group of warp entities conspired to arrange the warp breach, and the disruption within the immaterium that caused the acolytes to travel through time. Why would they do this? The warp beings need to create time paradoxes in order to physically manifest, in essence becoming one of the two sets of acolytes. They are capable of maintaining their physical forms for as long as they can keep the resulting time paradox from being resolved.

or that when the acolytes go back they unwittingly cause the warp breach and then are tainted and when they call the second team to the breach you can now have the acolytes play two sets of teams one to be pure evil and one to be good and have them fight eachother to see which one deserves to survive muwahahaha

For interesting ideas about time travel, take a look at the Prince of Persia and Legacy of Kain series. They both explore the theme of time travelling predestination vs. free will. "Let's Play"s of both games can be found on YouTube and similar platforms.

However, any time travelling story dealing with Predestination should be very carefully woven by the GM - if you want to retain that element instead of completely leaping over to Free Will, you'll have to keep your PCs on the rails of the game, but if they notice that, they'll cry foul, meaning you'll have to plan for a lot of contingencies.

Graver said:

Hehe, that's would be Warlord Grizgutz. The funny thing is that one of his two selves had actually launched a full scale Waaagh! but because he insisted on hunting his doppelganger down he stopped it dead in it's tracks.

You gotta love the mind of an Ork: "Oi? I'ze seem to 'ave travelled back fru time, whot am I gonna do?... I know, I'll hunt myself down so I'ze can 'ave TWO of my favourite shootas. Har har har!"

An easy solution (though not as interesting as others, I will admit) could present itself in the form of interference with Astropathic communications. There are examples of them "echoing" and being received at far different times than they were sent. Why wouldn't the warp breach cause the message , and not the Acolytes to be sent back in time? Even better, as they grow closer to the warp breach they could perhaps receive other temporally shifted transmissions. Anything from coded communication for cults and such from the past, which could give them crucial clues, or things like Exterminatus orders from their Inquisitor but from the future.

Also if you really wanted them to go back in time this solution can still be used. Even if their Inquisitor in this timeline never sent the message he did once and the message is still bouncing around in the warp to be received because of the warping effects of the breech.

Even better, the Acolytes could be investigated when a Inquisitorial kill-team gets sent for clean up to find the problem they were sent to help compensate for is gone.

Admittedly, this means no meeting yourselves.

You could have the Acolytes actually get killed at the end of the scenario........

Then just switch back to the other set.

A bit simple but maybe quite fun and avoids headaches......kind of......

I don't recall the title off hand, but I remember reading a short story in one of the official anthologies for 40K that involved a group of Space Marines that ended up traveling back in time against their will.

The set up was that they were part of a task force investigating the actions of (if memory serves) a segment of a Tyranid Hive-fleet. As the Marine starships look into things they notice that a mysterious Eldar ship is lurking just on the edge of sensor range. The Farseer onboard this Eldar ship has already forseen all of this and has his reasons for being in this place at this time, but this is obviously a real mystery to the Imperials. Not trusting the Eldar, but needing to focus the bulk of their assets on the bigger threat to the Imperium, a small team of Marines is sent to investigate what the Eldar are up to. It seems the Eldar ship is parked in the EXACT location and time that a carefully timed activation of their warp-drives will open a brief vortex of time-flux in the warp-window and when the Marine launch is too close to avoid the the portal the Eldar triger the event and swiftly move their ship out of position and leave the area. Weird, but then the Eldar are like that.

The Marines then investigate a nearby planet and things are pretty routine until they find a true mystery. They come across an aging fortification bearing the markings of their own Chapter and staffed by the ancient remnants of a Marine unit that also bears the heraldry of their own Chapter. The really strange part is the Chapter has NO history of having ever set foot on this world before! Clearly sorcery is afoot, and they clear the place out, then practical Marines that they are, they set up in the old fortress as a basecamp to make scouting and exploration easier.

A bit later they discover that there is a terrible Xenos threat on the planet and due to the small size of their force, the Marines retreat to the old fortress and mount a heroic stand against the surging alien force. They are battered and suffer terrible losses, but the old fortress enables the Marines to ultimately prevail and limp back to the fleet with utterly strange tales.

Now for the kicker: The real story here is that the Eldar had forseen the alien threat and the need to eliminate it, but were unwilling to bear the terrible cost in lives that sending the Craftworld to war would cause. Thus they set in motion a complicated plan that attracted the Marines to come investigate "annomalies" in the area, then deliberately allowed the Imperial ships brief sensor glimpses of the single ship sent on this mission. True to form, the Marines were suspicious as to what the Eldar were doing and sent a small force to investigate. This was the entire point of the Eldar plan, to get the Space Marines to this exact place at this exact time! They open a warp-portal and quickly move their ship out of the way, while the Marines plunge through the portal, only to emerge right where they already were! There is no sign of the Eldar vessel, nor of the Imperial fleet. Who can truely understand the motives of the Eldar, and their own fleet "is obviously looking after the Tyranid threat" so the always-dutiful Marines sent on a scouting mission decide to make use of the time before their fleet returns to scout the planet. The place is baren and desolate. Time passes and the fleet does not return. The Marines realize they may be here for a while, and construct a fortress out of local materials then stand a long vigil in the lonely place. Long time passes and most of the Marines age and die. The few survivors are quite old and the fortress is slipping into a state of disrepair when a strange thing happens. A group of Space Marines wearing the markings of their Chapter are spotted investigating the area: The fleet must have finally returned! As the newcomer Marines draw closer the aged survivors are shocked to realize that the bold young Space Marines coming to investigate their fortress are actually THEMSELVES!

ZillaPrime said:

Uh... *Looks around, raises hand* Sir, ' fr3nzy is confused. * Would this not require them to have gone back in time, then on the second 'pass through time', either; Not be sent back in time, and merely investigate the planet, meet up with old 'selves, etc.

OR , be sent back in time again , but to a different, uh. Past?

I also have other issues with the story as stated, a few of which undoubtedly stem from the time-travel trope itself. Now, the original post is too far gone for me to see it in the 'history' arrayed below, and I remain too afraid of this 'new' forum set-up to try anything even remotely tricky for fear of loosing mai wurds, so I shall henceforth just ramble on, mostly without aim or purpose.

However, to the OP ; I have wondered a similar thing, ever since I read the same/similar passage. Such as a timeline/flow like that below;

Message of Distress ** > Reactionary Choice *** > Warp Jump/Time Travel > A Tense Past ^ > Death/Investigation-ness ^^

Something you could do is run something similar to my idea above, and have some/most/all of the other cells time-travel, leaving the Acolytes very much alone, surrounded by mystery and calamity. Warp communication is knocked-out (accident on own ship, others dead/lacking. Or just have 'Nids), no one in-system is communicating or noticeably alive, the shattered remains of a familiar craft or two tell that you've arrived late to the party but not what date it is, etc.

Could have a hold-out enclave or two of surviving/amalgamated cells left to help fill-in the blanks, and/or discern from battlefield remains. Depending on your tastes, this could be heavy on combat or mostly investigative - the time-travelers eliminated most of the threat, leaving you only mop-up and discovery.

Granted, this means your group didn't get to dance the time-warp boogie, but it's a great way to rise to your Inquisitor's attention/esteem if that's needed or desirable. Alternatively/As-well-as, your Inquisitor could be intruiged by this potentially-exploitable phenomenom (sp?), and assign the Acolytes to discovering a better method of activating it. Which could lead them to arriving at this original planet before/with the time-traveled and exterminated group...... Opening up the "I'm in the <time here>! I can see my house/where my house will be/was from here!" moments, as well as allowing a few strange indeciphrable comments from the hold-out enclaves before they get toast.

To prevent some headache, allow your players to discover plenty of clues, so that when they travel back, they can avoid the mistakes they made "last time". And then, rather sick of time travel, not tell their Inquisitor anything at all.....

Phew. That ended up a lot longer than I originaly thought, and more than a little jumbled, but hopefully you can draw something from my mess, or at least safely ignore.

* An admittedly common occurance.

** In my idea, 'twas a report of Tyranid invasion.

*** Again, my version saw a detatchment of Marines pick up the report and decide to do some squashin'

^ Arrive void-side; "Oh look, bugs! All killing full!" 'But, sir, we....can't see any of our other ships!' "Silence!! All shooty-things forward!" *Zoom into Captains face as he leans forward on his captain-y chair, stroking his chin and assuming Heroic Pose #964. Whispers quietly into the DramaticMoment* "It's boom time.."

^^ Rest of the force arrives at about 'normal' time, only a small remnant of the first group there, fighting and dying with typical marine stubbornness. Rest of Chapter; 'Wtf? lul."

Bah, can't seem to 'Edit'. Clearly I require some teaching to off-set my noob.

Anyway, as to canon; That despicable, thrice-cursed, can't-write-marines-to-save-his-life, yes-I-desire-his-death author, Dan Abnett, has had an occassion of 'canon' time travel in the last of the Ravenor books. But then - I *think* - they went back to around the 'present' and it was all explained as "Well, it's the Imperium - it's big, we can't be expected to know what happened at X around the date of Y. "

Basically it was a Dues (pretty sure I mangled that latin) so that Ravenor could have major surgery without using up time in his, ahem , 'race against'. Although it did happen, and they affected the timeline, because there's a small note in history saying the person who helped them got executed for Heresy (through her past-y actions).

Anyway, that's me.

killfr3nzy said:

Uh, what?

From what I've read of Abnett's contributions to the Horus Heresy series, I have to say that he's one of the few authors who were actually able to write the astartes so they seemed like interesting characters. So I strongly disagree with you there...

Varnias Tybalt said:

Drat, countered by someone with greater knowledge than my own. I tend to stay away from most/all BL or even Warhammer novels, as I quiver with indignation everytime one of 'them' counters something I know to be true in my Imperium. So, to clarify; I stayed the hell away from the Horus Heresy series, and rapidly evacuated from every tidbit or smatter of knews I came accross. Therefore, my comments on Abnett's percieved lack of skillz was drawn from - possibly entirely, mehaps only in part, can't recall everything I've read - his 'Gaunt's Ghosts' series. I also have other issues with him, but since those who know me commonly refer to me as a/an <bad>, I'll leave them out.

Have you read those in said series that detail marines? I suppose I could claim that you're a terrible person and don't know what you're on about first , but think I'll inquire to start with. But regardless, he may have improved since then. As I lack perhaps a third of my keys on this device and am possessed of no small measure of lazy*, I shall wait for other informed responses.**

And now Blizzard tells me my dead, hacked account is getting hacked again. It's dead **** you, leave it be. Please excuse me while I change my password to something completely ridiculous.

* And copy-pasting a word in letter-by-letter can grow so tedious.

** And I apologize to Whelp , also. I should have known better than to bring up a subject that people hold very different belief's on. Likely we will, at best, each agree that the other is a fool, so I shall try and keep it brief.

ThenDoctor said:

The evil team will all have goatees... even the chicks. It would be awesome.

Extremely simple and elegant solution:

1) If the Acolytes fail to stop the warp breach the planet will fall into disarray. =][= will arrive and look around because they are not in the prearranged meeting place... "Oh, there you are, now lets sort out this place..." Proceed to next scenario, probably with a theme of "How to Kick a Whole Rioting Planet Back Into Imperial Law"

2) If the Acolytes stop the warp breach the planet will be okay. =][= will arrive and look around because they are not in the prearranged meeting place... "What the hell? There is nothing wrong here..." Proceed to next scene where the Inquisitor tracks the person who sent the message and finds out that the message was sent by a local Arbitor who had been spying on Acolytes. When he overheard their blabbering about warp breach and whole planet being thrown into disarray he sent a warning of what might happen to the =][=, who interpreted the message as not a warning but something that had happened... Or did he? Anyway, proceed to next scenario.

The very easy, and sometimes elegant way, is to have the Warp and good old Chronos to automatically correct any discrepancies, and just redo the entire timeline so that they have always just been there, and none of the time before the completion of their "assignment" happened. They just found out about the nefarious world eating plot, because they for some reason, now fabricated by time, just HAPPENED to be there. All of their old motives are gone, just to be replaced by some new and rather mundane reason. The Inquisitor sent them there to check on some minor cult, who turned out to be the ones planning to wreck the planet. THAT would be the easiest way for time and the warp to correct itself.

I'd be inclined to frame it such that the astropathic message comes from a future which happens without the involvement. Once you arrive at 'the event' in proper chonrology, you find that the astropathic message hasn't been sent and thus was an 'imaginary echo' from some other deeper, more mysterious and esoteric depth of the warp. Perhaps a delusion of tzeentch guised as a message, perhaps absolutely what you witnessed.

For an intriguing take on things, I recommend James Swallows' The Voice to be found in Tales of Heresy . Rather enjoyable stuff.

As a further example: Bring in two new sets of the acolytes. One a unit which arrived from 'within the warp' who're younger than themselves at the moment (simply strip out the last, oh, three or four missions'/games' worth of XP, wounds, equipment etc). Then do a bit of levelling up on some of them. Add in a few bionics, maybe the odd Dark Pact or Halo Device and itnroduce a future version of themselves.

Then introduce these new sets as whatever the hell you want . You can introduce rather remarkable penalties. Any wounds/harm/death inflicted to the younger/'present' selves can cause tremendous impact for the present/future selves.

It's certainly fun, but provided the acolytes aren't crossing into their personal history, I find it to be quite compelling. So if their younger selves appear, the PCs might imagine that they're distinct from themselves. The death of a PC's youngerself could then simply cause the present one to cease existing. This sort of metaphysics (and chronophsyics) doesn't need to be consistent, but I imagine the players will appreciate a degree of consistency.

One imagines that a character's ability to deal with the sanity-loss involved ought to be very fun and interesting.

For the record, I FRIKIN' HATE TIME TRAVEL! "Hey, guess what guys? You know that hot chick I met at the bar? Dude, I'm my own grandpa now!" *stomps up and down on the thought with Terminator armour* Die, filthy continuity breach, DIE!

*sighs*

Feeling much better now.

I've spent too much time watching Doctor Who...

Ahem. I'll put my suggestion for what you might want to do in that adventure and then put my grand idea (which I've been thinking about for another game).

The players can do nothing about the warp blast/thingy but they don't know that. First half of the adventure is tracking down what the warp blast source is and then finding out they can do nothing! However they are now free to order an evacuation & chase after the evil genius who created it. All the while they are trying to stay clear of the blast area.

Queue climatic battle with the evil genius whilst the place goes up. Players recover in hospital 2 days later. However do give them something, like when they where sent out the reports were 100 million were dead, now it's only 7 million, possibly due to their actions.

My grand idea is to seed a campaign with stories of a great disaster in the past where a great and loyal warrior/ship/army of the Emperor seemed to turn mad and did some evil works/actions before dying in a dubious way/massacre of his forces.

My PCs get accidentally transported into his retinue and they take part of the historical actions within the context of a great hidden Chaos infiltration. They have to help get rid of Chaos and avoid the massacre at the end which dooms all the people they are with...