Scum Boba Fett with VI, EU, Proton Bomb, and the crew of your choice... You've now got PS10 and the sith hunters become the hunted.

the biggest thing I took away from facing the shuttle-variant of this list was:

100 point squadron > 71 point Squadron + guaranteed die result

sure, it's "only" a shuttle, but the Omnicron pilot farts out just as many dice and with the exact same potency as freaking Soontir. If you can arrange it that the shuttle isn't taking part in the exchanges, generally through obstacles and that travesty of a dial, then that one die result isn't going to go too far when the aces are stranded against the entirety of your list.

This is quite true.

It's also why, as the person playing the list, you need to forget about keeping the Emperor alive and just slam the shuttle into combat. You need the dice, you need the distraction, and you need to not have it become your endgame ship.

I've considered using Tactical Jammer on the Palpmobile if I have a point left.

From flying a version of the list I can tell you what my thoughts are on some of this: 1) I run 34 point targeting computer soontir and I always want him to die with Vader as healthy as possible because Vader is the real force in the list. 2) don't go after the shuttle first, just don't. It will give me exactly what I want since I just use it as a blocker and occasional 3 dice gun platform. 3) if they don't roll the shuttle into the middle of the board to have it block and shoot they're wasting it because it's fat and just gets in the way so nicely. 4) soontir and Vader are so flexible that it's hard to counter that list flown well. They can both turtle, both go full offense with tl+focus and they can both arc dodge and range control with boost and barrel roll. If you're finding you can smash someone flying it then they probably could be flying it better since so far it feels like the sky is the skill limit.

I like Targeting Computer. I think it's good in that list, because I often find you can ignore Soontir for a turn, more if he gets a bad roll. A Target Lock makes a big difference there.

I've played this list quite a bit, but I haven't run it against TLTs. How have versions of the list fared against it?

Pilot Skill bid over 9 (or a way to boost multiple ships over PS9, looking at you Roark...)

4BZ

Swarms

Really, anything can beat it, but it helps a lot if you have higher PS or a huge firepower advantage. Kill order is usually going to be Shuttle->Vader->Fel

Gotta be careful a bit with that kill order. Fel is king closer.

TLT x 4 is definetly a potential threat, but it might still take a little bit of luck (but that will happen in a 7 round tournament where you get matched up against it 3 times or w/e). If 3-4 of the TLTs are able to focus on Fel on the first pass they can get him. Tends to be one hit that slips through on the first volley knocking out the stealth, then a couple more on the second volley, which is about how much time you have until 1 ywing dies typically. Vader can then be plunked down pretty easily with the reduced firepower, and even 1 surviving y-wing can get the shuttle.

Scum Boba Fett with VI, EU, Proton Bomb, and the crew of your choice... You've now got PS10 and the sith hunters become the hunted.

Except for that whole PS 11 vader thing.

No one mentions Ten Numb....Soontir runs from Ten when he's loaded with VI and Mangler...oh..you roll 15 dice and modify them...so...take a crit. :-) The only problem is, you better kill fel before help arrives! Biggs is almost a given in the list, to protect Ten....then you can fill out the rest accordingly.

And then this kind of list gets rolled by TLTs, which isn't a TLT complaint, but an example of how people always respond to these types of threads (TLT threads included, phantom and falcon threads in wave 4 etc.) with random "hard counters" that would have way too many bad matchups in the meta to consider. People had all sorts of goofy ordinance lists to shred a falcon back then that phantoms/tieswarms/biggs + bs w/e would kill back then. Can't look at stuff in a vacuum. And if you're just playing one game at a hobby store, you're kind of a jerk if all you do is go "what list are you playing? K give me ten minutes to get this hard counter" lol.

Pilot Skill bid over 9 (or a way to boost multiple ships over PS9, looking at you Roark...)

4BZ

Swarms

Really, anything can beat it, but it helps a lot if you have higher PS or a huge firepower advantage. Kill order is usually going to be Shuttle->Vader->Fel

Gotta be careful a bit with that kill order. Fel is king closer.

TLT x 4 is definetly a potential threat, but it might still take a little bit of luck (but that will happen in a 7 round tournament where you get matched up against it 3 times or w/e). If 3-4 of the TLTs are able to focus on Fel on the first pass they can get him. Tends to be one hit that slips through on the first volley knocking out the stealth, then a couple more on the second volley, which is about how much time you have until 1 ywing dies typically. Vader can then be plunked down pretty easily with the reduced firepower, and even 1 surviving y-wing can get the shuttle.

Sort of. You need to kill either Vader or the Shuttle asap. if you kill the shuttle you could go for Fel if the opportunity presents itself, but I'd rather go for the more predictable target. Fel can be annoying, but he'll spend more time running for his life if you kill Vader/Palps unless you have already basically lost.

Honestly, having played numerous times vs. VI ten with mangler and two hlc fcs blues... I really don't care about ten... If he shoots Vader it hits shields, and soontir is my targeting computer sacrificial pawn so as long as I trade some good damage I'm okay losing him. Between them they can kill a b in 2 turns and often an x in one so a crit or two being forced onto soontir honestly is okay with me.

Maybe that's just the way I build the list heavy on Vader being king, and the cavalier way I use soontir, but it's not really that scary to me.

... soontir is my targeting computer sacrificial pawn ...

Huh? I get that you are putting Targeting Computer on Soontir but I don't understand that statement at all.

No one mentions Ten Numb....Soontir runs from Ten when he's loaded with VI and Mangler...oh..you roll 15 dice and modify them...so...take a crit. :-) The only problem is, you better kill fel before help arrives! Biggs is almost a given in the list, to protect Ten....then you can fill out the rest accordingly.

In this matchup you don't even need Biggs. Ten loves two- and three ship lists; it's swarms he fears.

I would be curious to see how N'Dru with Homing Missile, Glitterstim and Crack Shot (25pts) fare against Soontir.... if only he was PS9 so that Soontir have trouble dodging the arc... maybe Veteran Instinct instead of Crackshot... although shooting 5 dice with TL+F versus 4 dice -1 Evade Result and no Evade token sounds tasty....

I might give a try to this build, if nothing else, it,s the same cost as Biggs and will do exactly the same thing!

I ran the Lone Wolf 100pt version this list at the UK Team Championship and went 3-2 (including a very satisfying 14-0 win in a mirror-match with a 99pt VI version of the same list). My two losses were to a twin-Phantom/AP list (where I was just comprehensively outflown) and to a ****ing horrible VI-Gunner-Tactician-K4-EU Bossk backed up by Boba. That 180-degree firing arc is no ****ing joke.

And yeah, as someone else said, generally I'm BEGGING my opponent to ignore my aces and go after the shuttle first.

Oh, and my name for the list is "Always Two There Are... No, Wait, That's Three."

... soontir is my targeting computer sacrificial pawn ...

Huh? I get that you are putting Targeting Computer on Soontir but I don't understand that statement at all.

Usually one of the aces bite it before the game ends, unless the game is wildly one sided. Usually people are more afraid of soontir, so if they spend several rounds burning him down and leave Vader mostly healthy then I'm very pleased. I consider him expendable, which makes it that much better when opponents focus so hard on him.

Oh, and my name for the list is "Always Two There Are... No, Wait, That's Three."

I never got that whole "always two" thing. There's the Master and the Apprentice. Then there's the Apprentice's secret apprentice that he's planning on betraying the Master with. The Master knows what's going on (because he was once a scheming Apprentice himself) so he has his own secret apprentice waiting in the wings for whenever the inevitable betrayal occurs or when the Apprentice proves himself not worthy by being defeated by something that the Master throws him at.

Oh, and my name for the list is "Always Two There Are... No, Wait, That's Three."

I never got that whole "always two" thing. There's the Master and the Apprentice. Then there's the Apprentice's secret apprentice that he's planning on betraying the Master with. The Master knows what's going on (because he was once a scheming Apprentice himself) so he has his own secret apprentice waiting in the wings for whenever the inevitable betrayal occurs or when the Apprentice proves himself not worthy by being defeated by something that the Master throws him at.

Honestly that quote never bothered me as much as, "Only the Sith deal in absolutes." Uh.... Maybe you want to take a minute and reevaluate what exactly you're saying their, Darth Kenobi.

Oh, and my name for the list is "Always Two There Are... No, Wait, That's Three."

I never got that whole "always two" thing. There's the Master and the Apprentice. Then there's the Apprentice's secret apprentice that he's planning on betraying the Master with. The Master knows what's going on (because he was once a scheming Apprentice himself) so he has his own secret apprentice waiting in the wings for whenever the inevitable betrayal occurs or when the Apprentice proves himself not worthy by being defeated by something that the Master throws him at.

Honestly that quote never bothered me as much as, "Only the Sith deal in absolutes." Uh.... Maybe you want to take a minute and reevaluate what exactly you're saying their, Darth Kenobi.

THANK YOU!!! That bit still bothers me to no end! Goddam pretentious Jedi.

The sith need to be two becuse they are prone to rampant murdering in their own ranks.

And most of the underlings are chumps that have no hope to alleviate the workload for the true sith.

Fight Sith lords with Sith Lords I always say.... Made a post in the Squad List forum... lemme fish that up... here

Vader

Predator

XX-23 Tracers (unreleased)

Title

ATC

Inquisitor (unreleased)

PTL

Title (unreleased)

AT

Soontir

PTL

AT

title

Stealth device

99-100 points, if you want to run the missiles... WHILE THERE IS NO DATA ON THE DIAL for the inquisitor I imagine it being akin to the interceptors dial allowing for all sorts of shenanigans.

Oh, and my name for the list is "Always Two There Are... No, Wait, That's Three."

I never got that whole "always two" thing. There's the Master and the Apprentice. Then there's the Apprentice's secret apprentice that he's planning on betraying the Master with. The Master knows what's going on (because he was once a scheming Apprentice himself) so he has his own secret apprentice waiting in the wings for whenever the inevitable betrayal occurs or when the Apprentice proves himself not worthy by being defeated by something that the Master throws him at.

Honestly that quote never bothered me as much as, "Only the Sith deal in absolutes." Uh.... Maybe you want to take a minute and reevaluate what exactly you're saying their, Darth Kenobi.

THANK YOU!!! That bit still bothers me to no end! Goddam pretentious Jedi.

The quote requires the context of anakins quote. Only a Sith would make an absolute statement like that about a person that he has known for so long. Whereas Jedi allow for some "you're my friend but you are pissing me off right now" flexibility.

The line comes off clunky right out of the gate though, in what is normally one the prequels bright spots (ewan mcgregor)

Back on topic though, i've actually been informed that my original build for this question clocks in at 101 points. So my new question is how to make the most of that 100.

I like the suggestion of targeting computer on soontir but I fear it makes him too squishy. I'm considering the ever popular veteran instinct for Vader/initiative bid, or wingman to keep soontir fed but his dial open, as I run them pretty tightly once I achieve the flank.

Back on topic though, i've actually been informed that my original build for this question clocks in at 101 points. So my new question is how to make the most of that 100.

I like the suggestion of targeting computer on soontir but I fear it makes him too squishy. I'm considering the ever popular veteran instinct for Vader/initiative bid, or wingman to keep soontir fed but his dial open, as I run them pretty tightly once I achieve the flank.

Lone Wolf works although you'd need to keep some distance between Fel and Vader for Lone Wolf to trigger. Juke is the same cost as Lone Wolf and would be a really nice EPT for a guy that always has at least two crits and can spare an action to Evade.

From my reading of The Internet the 4 TLT Y-Wing build is unable to be beaten by any squad existing or future. As this list falls in to the category of "any squad" then 4 TLTs will beat it! Done!

But seriously, this is why I love X-Wing. Because this list is so far the opposite of 4 TLTs, and is just as horrible to fly against.

*I also hate the fact that this list is yet another of the "buy the huge ship you'll never play to get a single card that makes your other ships so much better, a la 3PO.

My Raider arrived today. All in all it's the finest product I've bought from FFG: superb model, innovative cards, the advanced reborn, a brilliant mini campaign, and a bucket of style. I'm really impressed I have to say!

I would be curious to see how N'Dru with Homing Missile, Glitterstim and Crack Shot (25pts) fare against Soontir.... if only he was PS9 so that Soontir have trouble dodging the arc... maybe Veteran Instinct instead of Crackshot... although shooting 5 dice with TL+F versus 4 dice -1 Evade Result and no Evade token sounds tasty....

I might give a try to this build, if nothing else, it,s the same cost as Biggs and will do exactly the same thing!

If soonts allows himself to get in arcat 1-2 of N'Dru, then he deserves everything he gets - a sentiment I'm sure the red baron would agree with himself!