I find it funny that this is the Sith Lords list. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Soontir isn't a sith Lord, right? Carnor Jax, however...

Homing Missile Push the Limit Green Squadron Pilots did for Vader the other day...

...admittedly, we were playing Epic...

Paul Heaver's been running an Obsidian Swarm with Crackshot that should also be pretty solid against this.

WOW!

Paul is so good he gives Elite slots to ships that don't have them

Stupid TIE naming conventions.

lol, normal swarms do not beat this, that is terrible advice. sure the shuttle looks weak, but a good player using this will not even move the shuttle out of the corner until about turn 4 so you wont be able to kill it until the two killers are on your flanks. they will then arc dodge most of your ships and pick you apart with relative ease.

the reason the feedback swarm works so well is that it stops the arc dodgers being remotely effective. if you keep you Zs together they often need to kill two in a turn to keep themselves from taking 2-4 damage from the arrays, which is often enough to kill them. either that or just keep circling and doing no damage, which means the swam wins anyway.

In my experience having played this list quite a bit (the real Sith version, see below), this list doesn't do well against good players when the shuttle sits in the corner. It makes your aces vulnerable and decreases your firepower by 33%

I find it funny that this is the Sith Lords list. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Soontir isn't a sith Lord, right? Carnor Jax, however...

I'm sad it took 25 posts for someone to point this out. My nerd respect for these forums has decreased

Blank Dice

Ooh, I like the sound of this list, sounds like just my type.

That said I'm not a bgi fan of the shuttle - any good substitutes for that?

Not really. But, having played one game with it, and that being the first time I ever used the shuttle, you may want to give it a whirl. I love the flexbility Palpmobile + 2 Aces has. I personally like Carnor. Man, does that screw up the opponent, not being able to modify their attack dice while also having to deal with Palpatine. So brutal.

I actually felt bad when I used Fel + Carnor + Autothrusters and Stealth device. The TLTs almost stripped Carnor of his Stealth device once. But, Palpatine.

The same list, but with PS bid.

Vader + VI + ATC + EU, Soontir + PTL + AutoT + TC, OGP + Palpa = 98 pts

This is the version i fly. It's my favorite list currently.

it does have a hard counter, and that is the Feedback Swarm (7 scum Zs with feedback array), which absolutely eats the face off this thing.

...

The folks who are advising to get a higher PS are underestimating the power of Palpatine. He shines in situations where there are few dice rolls. If you bid higher so you can attack first, then your opponent can just burn Palpatine to provide evades.

I think you underestimate how annoying it is for Soontir and Vader to be arc-dodged themselves. Sure, Palp will help until he is dead.

My friend plays this list extensively. If you kill either the Shuttle or Vader quickly the list struggles much more. I typically go for the shuttle since it is easy to counter deploy, forces him to waste Palp's ability, and goes down quickly regardless of rolls. If you have more ships, like 4BZ, you can just go after the aces, since if you know what you are doing it is hard for them to consistently dodge your powerful attacks, even if they have a free evade a turn from Palps.

If you can't beat it with swarm, the problem is you don't know how to fly swarm. Both Soontir and Vader are susceptible to blocking and the shuttle melts really fast. In short, all the things swarms are good at doing.

I find it funny that this is the Sith Lords list. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Soontir isn't a sith Lord, right? Carnor Jax, however...

I'm sad it took 25 posts for someone to point this out. My nerd respect for these forums has decreased

This was literally the first thing to come to mind when I read this thread and was going to post something, but you guys are already on it.

Technically the OP list can still use the title. Palp and Vader are Sith Lord s plural. The third wheel doesn't have to be a Sith.

I prefer the name "Sheev Miller Band" anyway. Debating on the last three points though.

Stealth Device on Vader? Maybe? Vader can't get the double focus shenanigans but would still do work against a non-swarm opponent but potentially wasted points after one bad role.

Hull Upgrade? Meh?

Prockets? Not enough better than an ATC range one shot.

Advanced Homers? You are going to drop plenty of crits with Sheevy and ATC. Situational but not great.

Tie Mk2 and a 2pt initiative bid? I thinks that's the winner right there.

Played against this list last week with brobots and think I ended up losing one or two shield. Ignored the shuttle the entire game, first round of combat stripped the shields off Vader, blocked Soontir on Round 2 who turtled Round 1(A green hard 2? Surprise!) and used Crackshot to negate Palpatine to finish him off. (Which felt great)

Finishing Vader after that was easy and my opponent conceded after that with the shuttle at full health.

The list can be scary, but having both your damage dealers being completely vulnerable to being blocked/extremely action dependent is a glaring weakness. That and a 3rd of your list is tied up in a shuttle. Granted I've flown enough variations of the 3 ship, Emperor-Shuttle build to know how to counter it, but I've never thought this list was strong enough to be considered top-tier (although it is fun).

Non-evadable damage.

Vader crew, feedback arrays, assault missiles, ionization, that sort of thing.

A doomshuttle with gunner should take out at least one of the small ships.

the biggest thing I took away from facing the shuttle-variant of this list was:

100 point squadron > 71 point Squadron + guaranteed die result

sure, it's "only" a shuttle, but the Omnicron pilot farts out just as many dice and with the exact same potency as freaking Soontir. If you can arrange it that the shuttle isn't taking part in the exchanges, generally through obstacles and that travesty of a dial, then that one die result isn't going to go too far when the aces are stranded against the entirety of your list.

I really like

4x Alpha Sq. Pilot

Omicron Group Pilot (Adv. Sensors, Fleet Officer, Intelligence Agent)

100 points.

But I guess that's no secret since I've posted it in a dozen places It's all there: the 3 attack dice, the somewhat swarminess of 5 separate attacks, and Intelligence Agent to facilitate blocking the aces to clean up. I haven't played it against a Sith Lords squad, but I wouldn't be very afraid (though I still might lose).

Long drops, mostly.

How about un-defensible damage? Vader crew, Proximity Mines, Autoblaster Turret, Connor Net, to name a few. Nice thing is that most of those don't need to be in arc, so the arc-dodging doesn't hurt you too badly either. If you can Prox Soontir, for example, that should buy you more time to kill either Vader or the Shuttle the old fashioned way.

AB and Conner Net work, but remember that Palpatine can affect Proximity Mine rolls. It does force you to burn him for the round, but you're probably not going to kill Soontir that way.

True, but you still stand an even chance of getting a damage through even then, and Soontir only has so many hit points.

I also forgot Anti Pursuit Lasers! Our U.S. Nationals winner so graciously gave us a preview of anti-Emperor tech.

How about un-defensible damage? Vader crew, Proximity Mines, Autoblaster Turret, Connor Net, to name a few. Nice thing is that most of those don't need to be in arc, so the arc-dodging doesn't hurt you too badly either. If you can Prox Soontir, for example, that should buy you more time to kill either Vader or the Shuttle the old fashioned way.

AB and Conner Net work, but remember that Palpatine can affect Proximity Mine rolls. It does force you to burn him for the round, but you're probably not going to kill Soontir that way.

True, but you still stand an even chance of getting a damage through even then, and Soontir only has so many hit points.

I also forgot Anti Pursuit Lasers! Our U.S. Nationals winner so graciously gave us a preview of anti-Emperor tech.

How is anti pursuit lasers anti emperor?

You block Soontir, and the Emperor can't stop the APL damage. It's more anti-Soontir, but the Emperor makes Soontir more Soontir-y.

Vader and Gunner on a Decimator create a fairly large no fly zone for Soontir. If Oicunn rams a high PS ship for damage there's a good chance that that ship will trigger Anti-Pursuit Lasers unless it is going long. Determination should have you tossing out at least a couple of cards dealt by Vader and a Palpatine.

Because of Soontir's allergic reaction to automatic damage the shuttle will probably be forced to engage because Vader can't handle Whisper and Oicunn by himself.

If Whisper dances around in Oicunn's shadow she'll make it hard for Vader or Soontir to come after her.

3 point initiative bid so you get to decide if you want Whisper shooting first or moving last.

the biggest thing I took away from facing the shuttle-variant of this list was:

100 point squadron > 71 point Squadron + guaranteed die result

sure, it's "only" a shuttle, but the Omnicron pilot farts out just as many dice and with the exact same potency as freaking Soontir. If you can arrange it that the shuttle isn't taking part in the exchanges, generally through obstacles and that travesty of a dial, then that one die result isn't going to go too far when the aces are stranded against the entirety of your list.

This is quite true.

It's also why, as the person playing the list, you need to forget about keeping the Emperor alive and just slam the shuttle into combat. You need the dice, you need the distraction, and you need to not have it become your endgame ship.

Reading only the thread title I would say: usually their apprentices. But since we haven't seen much force use show up that seems unlikely.

Best way to stop a sith hard:

In all seriousness, any sort of guaranteed damage methods can make the list crumple. Stress and ion tokens are also invaluable means to hinder these aces.

From my reading of The Internet the 4 TLT Y-Wing build is unable to be beaten by any squad existing or future. As this list falls in to the category of "any squad" then 4 TLTs will beat it! Done!

But seriously, this is why I love X-Wing. Because this list is so far the opposite of 4 TLTs, and is just as horrible to fly against.

*I also hate the fact that this list is yet another of the "buy the huge ship you'll never play to get a single card that makes your other ships so much better, a la 3PO.

*I also hate the fact that this list is yet another of the "buy the huge ship you'll never play to get a single card that makes your other ships so much better, a la 3PO.

Well, to fly that list you actually need three cards from that pack, and you get another twelve you also can use for non-Epic, not to mention a nice little ship.

No one mentions Ten Numb....Soontir runs from Ten when he's loaded with VI and Mangler...oh..you roll 15 dice and modify them...so...take a crit. :-) The only problem is, you better kill fel before help arrives! Biggs is almost a given in the list, to protect Ten....then you can fill out the rest accordingly.