OK, I need some help, because when I try and run anything "space combaty" it all doesn't seem to work very well.

This might turn into quite a long post, but please bare with me.

The group have a reasonably stock YT-1300.
They are feeling a planet that is surrounded by an asteroid field.
Being pursued by 1 Minion Group of 2 Cloakshape Fighters and 1 Skipray Blastboat. (I didn't want to fight to be too hard).

I started the bad guys at Medium and long range. (Granted this was possibly too far away).

The Initiative was: PC, NPC, PC, PC, NPC, PC PC.

I determined it would take 3 rounds to reach the asteroid field, and a further 3 to traverse the field before they could jump away.

Turn 1
PC Pilot takes 2 Manoeuvres and some ship strain to move a range band further away from the enemy.

Enemy are forced to do the same. So remain at Med and Long range.

Rest of the party have little to do, as nothing is in range.

Turn 2
Somehow I get the Cloakshapes into close range, and get a shot off... for little effect.
PCs shoot back, taking one out with a Crit, and damaging the other.

Turn 3
PC Pilot again takes 2 manoeuvres to move a range band, other PCs fire first dealing more damage.
Cloakshape HAS to spend 2 Manoeuvres to get close enough to fire.. for little effect again.

Turn 4
Pilot makes a 2P2R piloting roll to navigate the asteroid field... again 2 manoeuvres to move a range band from the enemy.

Cloakshape does the same.... hits an asteroid. Destroyed.

Skipray Was never even able to get into range, as the PCs could simply just run run run run....

It all seems rather pointless, and its an area of the game that we (as a group) are continuously struggling with, it is either a total waste of time, or the PCs nearly die. Their default tactic is to move away from the enemy as fast as they can, and I cant see any reason to say they cannot, or "yes but"

The Pilot Drops his Action so he doesn't take strain, puts 2 strain on the ship
The Mechanic then repairs the strain.

The enemy cannot get close unless THEY take strain (Unless I throw Speed 5 enemies at them), which means they cannot Aim, Evade, GtA, Anything, so are effectively hurting themselves to get to a place where they might be able to fire, and then get 2 turrets shots in their face for their troubles, and with a Targeting Array with a couple of mods, they are upgrade all their gunnery checks TWICE, AND getting True Aim to boot.

So, short of only throwing ships capable of doing Speed 5 (so they can close the distance faster), which limits me to pretty much TIEs and TIE variants

Start everything at a closer range, which at least one player is going to complain about "Well why couldn't we see them coming?" (Even if I spin their "Short range" sensors at them, it would mean I still have the issue of them Moving a Band a Turn, reducing my options to deal any threat at them)

Or, I am narrating things very badly, or just not "getting" how I am meant to really do this aspect of things.

I am aware of The Chase rules, which I guess I should have used prior to them getting to the asteroid belts.

Should I have made the pilot make TWO rolls to navigate the asteroid field, instead of just one, since he was taking two manoeuvres?

Should I have started everything at a much close range? (Short, as that's their Sensor range)

Or am I missing something else entirely here?

If you started a ground foot chase at medium and long range against minions armed with holdout blasters it would end the same.

I would say you should probably use the chase rules in a chase.

I'm not sure what the set up is as to why the PCs are fleeing or where the enemy is in regards to them, but if you give PCs a huge head start against minions they're going to out run them just using maneuvers. The chase rules allow minions to potentially catch the PCs with good rolls. You can add Pilot ranks to minions to accomplish that and it won't necessarily up their lethality noticeably.

If they're already at range, then the only way for them to be forced to close is: longer range weapons on the pursuers; pursuers ships are faster; terrain that requires them to slow down (asteroid field did it fine in this case, pilot was just good); OR ships in front of them they're being herded towards...

OK... So.... been giving this some thought.. and come up with some personal "rules" for me to "follow" when running a space combat.

(Please Note, these are not HOUSE RULES, or Rules Changes or intended for anyone else to use... they are specifically for ME as guidelines to help make space combat flow better"

*PCs will not know where the Enemy is until they are at Short Range, as thats the limit of their sensor range. Thus - All Enemies start at Close Range.

*If the PCs elect to "run" immediately switch to "The Chase" rules from the CRB. (Should this count as the Pilots Maneuver as if they were doing a Drive/Fly Maneuver?)

*Where appropriate, the Enemy will have longer range weapons (However that limits me to Quad Lasers, as everything else at Short range are Missiles)

What else would you suggest?

I'd be very careful paying too much attention to the sensor range on ships... There's no current attachment that will allow it to be extended and that means a ship could come under fire from something with medium+ range weapons without any way to identify what's shooting at them or from where...

I'd be very careful paying too much attention to the sensor range on ships... There's no current attachment that will allow it to be extended and that means a ship could come under fire from something with medium+ range weapons without any way to identify what's shooting at them or from where...

OK... So what should I allow my players to sense, with their Short Range sensors?

If they can pick up ships at a longer range, they will just run sooner... making the Sensor Range utterly pointless.

Plus, one of my players seems to have this idea that Sensors work and give as many details as Star Trek Sensors do... ships on a planet, number of life signs, etc. Which is not supported in Star Wars to my knowledge.

So do I ignore Sensor range? or find some other way to utilize it?

*If the PCs elect to "run" immediately switch to "The Chase" rules from the CRB. (Should this count as the Pilots Maneuver as if they were doing a Drive/Fly Maneuver?)

I'd be very careful paying too much attention to the sensor range on ships... There's no current attachment that will allow it to be extended and that means a ship could come under fire from something with medium+ range weapons without any way to identify what's shooting at them or from where...

OK... So what should I allow my players to sense, with their Short Range sensors?

If they can pick up ships at a longer range, they will just run sooner... making the Sensor Range utterly pointless.

Plus, one of my players seems to have this idea that Sensors work and give as many details as Star Trek Sensors do... ships on a planet, number of life signs, etc. Which is not supported in Star Wars to my knowledge.

So do I ignore Sensor range? or find some other way to utilize it?

Emperor Norton came up with a workaround as well that's not too shabby.

The issue i have with allowing a Chase AND Let the Pilot a Maneouvre as normal, is they would just keep using Fly Drive to get further from the enemy.. making the entire encounter fairly pointless.

I've seen Nortons stuff... but I am trying to avoid changing the core rules if I can avoid it..

The chase rules explicitly state maneuvers may not be used to change relative distances.

Page 241 in EotE core rulebook

I'm AFB and could be wrong about this, but...

For sensors, they still require a Computers check to scan the enemy, otherwise all they might see is blips (if in default range), with no indication of friend or foe (therefore, no reason to run). A default Computers check is PP. I've never liked the minimal sensor ranges in the rules, so I'd allow +1 difficulty for each range increase, possibly upgraded or increased more if the target has a hidden signature, there is terrain in the way, etc. Just the scanning alone can increase player participation beyond the pilot.

If you don't use the chase rules, flying through terrain requires a piloting check to get to where the pilot intends. Otherwise they're basically doing loop-de-loops, making no progress because they've had to avoid too much terrain. So if it takes 3 turns to get through the asteroid field, then they need 3 successful piloting checks to get through. If they fail, then the opponent has a chance to catch up.

I'd skip the "3 turns beyond the asteroid field", because that's just a straight shot with no skill required, just speed, which means you're back to double-fly. Just say the target is to clear the asteroid field. (On a side note, personally I'm not a fan of allowing double-Fly...I get that the rules are "abstract and narrative", but it's just too weird to have to explain. There are already plenty of means to increase speed and range that don't break the immersion as much as double-Fly.)

Your NPC pilots don't all have to be minions, they could be Rivals and Nemeses, and have talents like Full Throttle. They could have a wingman, which might add some Hull points and Linked(+1) to the Rival's profile, and maybe it soaks up the first crit. Plus there's no reason the ships themselves couldn't be modified with better engines and equipment. That Gozanti, with a default speed of 2, could easily be a special prototype with almost no cargo capacity but ridiculous engines...

The chase rules explicitly state maneuvers may not be used to change relative distances.

Page 241 in EotE core rulebook

THAT is useful.. thank you.

@whafrog.

ALL useful.. im starting to see my errors, and where to correct them.... I just hope my brain retains all this (which I will put money on it not doing so, in its current state)... my next adventure doesnt involve any space combat... so... hmm

I'd be very careful paying too much attention to the sensor range on ships... There's no current attachment that will allow it to be extended and that means a ship could come under fire from something with medium+ range weapons without any way to identify what's shooting at them or from where...

OK... So what should I allow my players to sense, with their Short Range sensors?

If they can pick up ships at a longer range, they will just run sooner... making the Sensor Range utterly pointless.

Plus, one of my players seems to have this idea that Sensors work and give as many details as Star Trek Sensors do... ships on a planet, number of life signs, etc. Which is not supported in Star Wars to my knowledge.

So do I ignore Sensor range? or find some other way to utilize it?

I wouldn't ignore sensor range. It says they can passively see out to that range, if you let PCs see as far as they like regardless you end up with the problem you're having. There is direction for active scanning and Sam has said you can see as far as you can shoot, but to me that would require manning weapons actively. If they want better sensors I think the easier option is to just houserule installation of a better sensor array and bill HPs as you see fit.