I was wondering if it occurred to anyone one else that the Force power Move (levitation if you will) Seemed to have an unspoken limitation on it.

In the Clone wars series, I found it funny how nearly any time some one was Hanging from the edge of something, ready to fall to their deaths, The Jedi, who could Lift MASSIVE objects with ease, would leap forward and try to pull the hanging person up with the Arms.

So it appears that If your target it hanging from a cliff edge, You are unable to use your Force powers to save them.

Oh, Also, if you don't have a Hand free, you also seem unable to use the Move power.

Luke can lift the chair that happens to have a droid in it, but not the droid itself, eh?

I dislike it as a rule as it seems like the limitation exists without a logical reason. Matter is matter.

The rule that comes in to play more often is the rule of cool. It's more dramatic to see a chap do the dive and grab than yawn and lift the person with his mind. As a player I want to my character to look awesome so if I have a decent Coordination or Athletics it's likely I'll be asking to roll that.

(That said, if I were playing someone with Move I could have fun rolling my eyes and lifting the people to safety rather than roll in the dirt like some oaf. )

I dislike it as a rule as it seems like the limitation exists without a logical reason. Matter is matter.

Oh i am not suggesting it should be a rule or limitation.. I just Roll my eyes Every time it happens.

And sure, I understand the Rule of Cool, but I also like Cool to make sense, and these situations just don't make sense to me. If I was a Force User, you would think My instincts would have developed to the point where my first act would be t attempt to use the force to save them rather than put myself in jeopardy as well.

In one situation, Anikan even had to Let One person fall to save another.

And I just had to shake my head sadly every time He "Moved" multiple objects before and after that event.

In the episode where they are on onderon (i think), ahsoka uses move to lift someone off a cliff IIRC. Although she fails in the end because she gets distracted by something.

Which might be why they prefer to use their arms.

Sorry, I haven't had much sleep.

Star "Plot" Wars my friend XD

Like Arrow, or other series that I don't remember actually, people use to have "plot accuracy, power, talents" like other aspects like hyperspace and its "plot speed".

The biggest individual thing moved is a 22.02 meteres Confederation vehicle, of course, multiple smaller targets.That's one of the reason I considered to limitate the size limit on Move to 4 and maybe 5, not sure yet. Range seems an important limitation too and the main one, with plot permission XD, concentration, focus and awareness.

Seems that when a character is relaxed, on peace, can do extraordinary things (if believes enough) and even with not so advanced training. The Force, at low level, seems pretty intuitive and easy, but at high levels, seems a problem even for the most powerful users.

I can imagine it is easier to reach out with the force to grap a target that is moving at the same speed as you are (falling, standing still, etc.) but that it would be a lot more difficult to reach out and move a target that is falling/quickly moving away from you. It is something I give setback dice for.

There is nothing I have ever seen regarding this, but I would consider it appropriate for setback die for peaceful movement of living beings. Here is my reasoning - all living beings are connected through the Living Force. Offensive use of Move tends to be short and to the point offering little chance for any resistance, but peaceful applications tends to be more sustained and give the recipients mind a chance to react, even if on an instinctual level, to the unnaturalness of being moved, The connection to the living force would translate the reaction into some resistance.

Alternately, non-consensual use of Move on a living being could be considered to be automatically Opposed per the Resisting Force Power Checks (FaD 283). I recently re-watched a Clone Wars season 1 episode where Anakin used Move to assist Padme in making a jump between speeding train transports and he very specifically told her what he was going to do before doing it, in effect getting he buy in and making sure the use of Move was unopposed.

Do we assume everyone is doing the most effective thing all the time, are calm and collected in the heat of the moment and always have full control of the Force and their Force Powers?

Anyhow, I`m glad it isn`t an issue in the Rebel Era and the default setting of the game, since Jedi doesn`t exist anynore, only sensitives who are dipping their toes in the Force pool... Well, there are Sith I guess...

Know or know not, there is no guess...

Oh, Also, if you don't have a Hand free, you also seem unable to use the Move power.

One of the unproduced arcs (on Utapau) shows Obiwan and Anakin discussing how to work together to prevent a huge kyber crystal from falling, and discussing how and where to hold their hands. The story problem is that they can't have both hands free, so it makes the task harder.

I'd say being able to gesture is the default. If you can't, then applying setback seems reasonable.

Know or know not, there is no guess...

That is why you fail. At Guess Who?

I see a lot of talk of adding Setback dice, but this is a Force die roll.

I imagine you have to surround the entire person with the force and move them upwards making it much more difficult to do it on a moments notice. Only some jedi might be disciplined enough to gather the force fast and precise enough the instant a friend is falling to their demise.

Grabbing a rock with the force and hurling it across the room is pretty easy, but if you do that to a living being you have to be carefull where you apply the grip so you don't accidentily snap the spine or hold onto something squishy that will rip off, internally or externally.

Using the force requires intense focus and concentration. This is mostly given as the reason why force attacks aren't very common in duels because the concentration is spent on staying connected to ones limbs. Also in several books it is mentioned that force users shield themselves with a cocoon of protection from force attacks, which given enough strength can be overpowered.

I see a lot of talk of adding Setback dice, but this is a Force die roll.

...unless a Discipline roll is also required.

Okay, Look explaining it isn't th problem... As throughout the series we have seen them Lift and catch characters in mid fall all the time... The issue only arises when 'Plot' says "Hey we need a dramatic moment so lets hang some one by a cliffthat needs saving.

There are no other distractions around, yes some how they can't jsut use their force anymore LOl... I mean if Droids were shooting at them requiring them to defend themselves. it would make more sense.... but I have also seen them Wield their light sabers in defense while Lifting something at the same time.. so there is that..

I just like things to make sense.... Be in harmony with what has happened before.. and Ignoring consistency of action just for a drama plot just makes me laugh when it falls outside that consistency.

Interestingly, The Force Move does not state having a hand free is required....

For consistency, with everything seen in both canon and EU, I would probably require it or add setbacks myself.

I like how it was explained in the "Wheel of time" Series by Robert Jordan.

The users of "Magic" in the series explained that the gestures weren't really "required", but because that was how the User learned to use and manifest the power, it became harder to do the same effects without it. Kind of a Psychological self imposed block to using the power without the gesture.

Luke can lift the chair that happens to have a droid in it, but not the droid itself, eh?

I dislike it as a rule as it seems like the limitation exists without a logical reason. Matter is matter.

The rule that comes in to play more often is the rule of cool. It's more dramatic to see a chap do the dive and grab than yawn and lift the person with his mind. As a player I want to my character to look awesome so if I have a decent Coordination or Athletics it's likely I'll be asking to roll that.

(That said, if I were playing someone with Move I could have fun rolling my eyes and lifting the people to safety rather than roll in the dirt like some oaf. )

Except that we see R2 lifted on Dagobah while Luke is training and there are some scenes where Jedi do lift other people. So, the limitation is probably more one of "writers wrote them reacting" and not one where the power just isn't allowed to do it.

...sometimes you just don't have enough white pips...

I see a lot of talk of adding Setback dice, but this is a Force die roll.

...unless a Discipline roll is also required.

I see a lot of talk of adding Setback dice, but this is a Force die roll.

It is a good thing I haven't played a lot of F&D yet!

You can call it "rule of Cool" or whatever else, but we have examples where they have done it with/without gestures, with/without Droids, and with/without sentient meatbags (Rebels in the episode where Kanan is teaching Ezra on the back of the Ghost Kanan uses Move on Ezra).

I much prefer to use the "human element" to reflect the writer's need for drama. Remember, people do dumb things in tense moments, and tend to make snap reactions based on the situation than reflect upon the "best course of action."

Think about it like this - how many times have you knocked a cup of scalding hot coffee off of the table but still reacted by trying to catch the cup? Not smart, but you do it anyway because of the intensity of the situation. Our decisions in the moment are determined by the culmination of a million factors - location, emotional state, external inputs, relative social position among the assembled - all these things determine if, and how we react to a stimulus.

Mechanically, I would say there really isn't a need to add or subtract anything unless you feel its appropriate.

The way I see it, using the Force to move something requires concentration. Watching TCW, it usually seemed to be the case that the Force user would 'take a moment' before moving something. And yes, I'm including a lot of the times they do it in combat. More than once Anakin or Obi Wan would try to move something in a fight and then get interrupted whilst they tried. So there's that delay in achieving what you want and I'd also say, based on the times I've seen them use the Force to lift a person, that it's not the easiest thing in the world. The people wobble and bob all over the place, usually. A little like balancing a plate on a pole.

So if your dear friend is sliding off the roof of the Senate building and they're in lunging distance, I think it probably makes sense that someone would leap and grab them rather than pause, centre and then focus. I mean if you're Yoda then certainly. But most people probably go for the lunge in extremis. Just like they parry a lightsabre blow with their own lightsabre rather than gesture with the Force, even though there is clearly enough strength to move a lightsabre or the arm behind it. (If you can hurl a super battle droid down a corridor, a humanoid who weighs less can't be exerting more downward strength than you can handle).

In short, when rescuing your friends from cliff edges, your arm isn't going to vanish if you lose concentration. I agree it's funny however, especially so if I think of it like this:

Padmé: "Help me, Annie. My fingers are slipping!"

Anakin: "I've got you Padmé, don't be afraid..."

Anakin: she's so cute... after I get her back to the her senatorial chambers, I'm going to power down C3-P0 and then we're going to...

Padmé: "Aieeeeeeeeeeeee!"

Anakin: "Dagnabit!"

Cruel...just cruel... that could have been a Robot Chicken scene...

I could see a Discipline check being required in these cases.. Especially if something tries to disrupt your concentration.

Ahsoka did catch some one from going off a cliff with a speeder... but then she got shot in the shoulder and dropped the person.

How ever the Move attack I am not as certain about it taking concentration to deliver.. maintain yes, deliver no...

In the revenge of the Sith, the battle between Obiwan and Anikan, they used the Force quite often during their battle, even when using their lightsabers for attacks.

Given, these were two highly experienced and Powerful jedi/sith.

I just figure it requires a bit of concentration (and maybe calmness), and when your friend is falling over the edge of the abyss, the usual reaction is to dive in there and try to handle the situation physically.