The Wrestling Thread

By FTS Gecko, in X-Wing Off-Topic

...yeah, I like to watch old men in their speedos pretend to beat each other up. What of it?

Injured NXT star Sami Zayn is set to make his first official appearance since his shoulder surgery at EVOLVE this weekend. This is big news, as Gabe Sapolsky's northeast promotion looks to have secured a partnership of sorts with the WWE (as highlighted in recent weeks with Tomasso Ciampa and Johnny Gargano linking up with NXT).

Speaking of NXT, I'm going to be heading to Blackpool (yes, THAT Blackpool) for NXT's show at the Empress Ballroom in December. William Regal's homecoming. Good times.

See, I used to watch the wrestling 20 odd years ago. You had the likes of Hacksaw Jim Duggen, Rowdy Roddy Piper, Rick Rude, the Hart brothers, Brutus the Barber, Hulk Hogan and the Ultimate Warrior. Those guys were entertaining to watch. And pretty much everything happened in the ring. The interviews that would suddenly erupt into a fight. Golden stuff.

It just seems so lame these days by comparison. I know the fighting is fake and it's all about the performance. But at least the older guys knew how to fake a punch. Hell, sometimes they even connected. But some of these newer guys throw a punch that misses by a foot or more, and the opponent still gets flattened by it. And then there's the over dramatised back stage soap opera. Who gives a rat's behind about that?!?

Given the choice, I'd rather watch a rerun of WrestleMania 2 than watch WrestleMania XXXII.




Best wrestling game EVER !

See, I used to watch the wrestling 20 odd years ago.

So did I. First started watching (at the behest of my dear old grandmother, a legitimate handbag-swinging front row civic hall die-hard fan, bless her soul) back in the very early nineties, when I was in my early teens. I think it's safe to say I didn't really get it, at first. There was Hogan of course, and the evil Sergeant Slaughter (playing an Iraqi sympathiser during the Gulf War), and the rope-shaking Ultimate Warrior (RIP). Bright neon, over the top characters and literally unbelievable action. I was amused, but I didn't really understand why my gran loved it so much.

Then I watched Summerslam '91 (match made in heaven/match made in hell), and specifically the Intercontinental Championship match between Bret Hart and Mr Perfect (RIP), and I was hooked for life. It wasn't the characters that got me, the music, the bright lights, the superstars.. just two really talented guys telling an incredible, convincing, physical story. Making you suspend disbelief, if only for a second.

From then on, it was always those kind of performers which kept me interested and invested. Randy Savage (RIP), The British Bulldog (RIP), Owen Hart (RIP), Eddie Guerrero (RIP), Shawn Michaels, Kurt Angle (pre-TNA), and so on - people who could legitimately keep you on the edge of your seat, even though you knew it wasn't actually real.

I watched the fall of WCW, the rise (and fall) of ECW,.. when WWE finally killed off it's competition, I drifted away for a while - they moved away from the kind of spectacle I enjoyed, and struggled to create compelling characters. They switched to a PG-rated TV product, which limited what their performers were able to say and do (and hopefully has helped to protect their performers from long term injury). They (like everyone else) started broadcasting in HD, and while production values improved, it also exposed the in-ring action to greater scrutiny and made it much more difficult to hide the shortcomings.

That's changed in the last five years or so. WWE has started picking up more and more talent from independent promotions like Ring of Honour, EVOLVE and PWG. While their main show still tries to cater to a PG audience and all comers, they've also recently introduced their development territory as a brand in it's own right - NXT. Comparing the two is like the difference between listening to pop music and listening to metal.

I think it's easy to look back on the rock and wrestling days with nostalgia - hell, WWE does it themselves - but when you watch the shows from way back then, in all their analogue, made-for-small screen glory, they don't really hold up.

I dunno. I kinda liked the more no-nonsense entertainment that they offered back then. Loved to watch Goldberg, Stone Cold Steve Austin and Jake the Snake. They just got in the ring and did the business. Also loved watching the aerobatics of the likes of Jimmy Snuka. And there was a tag team (I can't remember their name) that seemed to spend more time in the air than on the mat. You'd just watch in wonder at how they could propel themselves to the heights they did and come slamming down on their poor victim. Or suffer an unexpected reversal. And every dude had his signature finishing move, and no one else would use it. It was almost like they had a copyright on it. I mean we knew the fighting was fake, but the stunts were just incredible sometimes.

There's some talent in the game these days, but there's too much soap opera and not enough action. Back in the late 80s-early 90s, two wrestlers would spend months niggling at each other, interrupting each other's fights, pulling silly stunts to rile the other guy. Mean Gene would interview them and they'd rag on the other guy, then the other would do the same, then it was all on. Then it would culminate in an epic fight at some big event. And that was it. They'd sorted it, and it was onto the next pairing. They were loud and growly and intimidating. There was none of this ongoing dribble that we get these days. These days they just seem to be repeating last week's fight, and next week they'll do it again. I think they've lost a bit of the flavour from back then that made it successful as entertainment.

And these back stage "scenes" are so badly scripted and poorly acted, they're not likely to convince a 10-year old with half a brain. Let's face it, these dude's aren't actors in the normal sense of the word. They're massive, muscle-bound behemoths that excel in chucking each other around in the ring. Let them get on with it.

And I don't think the HD versus crusty old analogue has much to do with it. When I see a guy miss with a punch by a foot or more, even the old analogue would have picked that up. They just seemed to be sharper with their moves back then. I think this generation of "sports-entertainers" could learn a thing or two from the older guys. If there's any of them still around, that is.

If you loved the athleticism (like I do), then you really should check out some of the current roster...

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Edited by FTS Gecko

That's what I'm talking about! What the hell was that?!?

I'm not sure we get NXT here in NZ, I think it's only RAW and Smackdown. It's usually on after midnight here, thanks to the censors and their suggested timeslots. :angry: And by that stage, I'm heading for bed, not the TV.

On an unrelated note, good to see that the craziness that is the Roberto Rodriguez-inspired Lucha Underground on El Ray Network has thankfully been renewed for a second season. Total and utter insanity - in a good way.

I'm not sure we get NXT here in NZ, I think it's only RAW and Smackdown. It's usually on after midnight here, thanks to the censors and their suggested timeslots. :angry: And by that stage, I'm heading for bed, not the TV.

NXT is pretty much an exclusive on the WWE Network now anyway (although you can see highlights on Youtube here and there). A shame you can't get it though, as one of your compatriots (Evie) recently made her debut on NXT as well. She's bloody good as well!

Going back to the original post for a second; one of the other reasons I love watching wrestling: following some of these guys careers. It's an industry like no other in the world - there's really barely a handful of places in the world where a guy can actually earn enough money to live off; and generally they can only hope to do so for a limited amount of time.

Only a tiny percentage of the guys who pretty much dedicate their lives to this kind of thing go on to make it. The vast majority do it for love more than money. Some get incredibly close, only to have the rug pulled out from under their feet at the last moment.

Take Nigel McGuiness, for example. British wrestler, same age as me, started wrestling in the 90's, travelled to America, became a huge star for Ring of Honour, and it looked like he'd signed with the WWE in 2009 at the same time as Bryan Danielson - his big, breakout opportunity. Unfortunately, the WWE withdrew their contract offer due to a pre-existing arm injury - his own doctors had cleared him, but the WWE's doctors wanted him to have corrective surgery, which would rule him out for almost a year (and the operation alone would cost thousands). He couldn't afford the surgery - and couldn't afford to be out of work - so his big opportunity passed him by. He joined TNA instead, worked there for a while, but his career was cut short when he was diagnosed with hepatitis and forced into retirement. He still works in the USA, crowd sourced a documentary and has tried to crowd source his own series. So close, yet so far.

Then there's Lionheart - a Scottish wrestler, flirted with joining TNA for years, but wrestled primarily in the UK. Broke his neck wrestling in a small event a couple of years ago, he's since (terrifyingly) made a return in England, but it's doubtful he'll ever get a chance at the top level. Kris Travis, another fantastic young British wrestler, had an opportunity with TNA last year, looked like he was impressing - was then diagnosed with stomach cancer.

So it's a real feel-good moment when you see someone who has been wrestling in bingo halls in front of 50-100 people for 10 years, earning $50 (if that) per appearance finally get an opportunity to appear on TV and potentially become household names, superstars or role models.

Edited by FTS Gecko

So just you and me then, Gecko?

Holy **** Seth Rollins. I'd forgotten how ****ing brilliant that guy is.

Also: it's weird how the Red Arrow looks less impressive in slow-motion.

Takeover: The End was pretty great. I'm REALLY enjoying seeing Nia Jax get better every time she's in the ring - the current crop of women is all-caps GREAT but adding a proper monster to the ranks can only be a good thing. I thought the tag match completely stole the show, though. I might... kind of love The Revival? Or that might just be the harmonica in their theme song talking. AA losing the belts kind of suggests they're not long for this roster which worries me a little because Raw is where tag teams go to die.

I was literally going to send you a message last night Rodafowa - I think the Revival and Alpha are the kind of guys who could feud with each other for the next ten years and I wouldn't ever get bored. Both great teams, different styles, but work so well with each other.

I was nervous after Gable reversed that double team move near the end of the match, looked nasty like he'd landed on his head. Incredible match though.

I think there's going to be a fair few call ups soon, what with the upcoming brand extension and all. I'd surprised if those two teams weren't among them.

A couple more things as well... Tye Dillinger's gimmick is AMAZING fun. He had a comedy match in Blackpool with Bull Dempsey (who was also fun) which had the crowd cheering the roof off the Empress Ballroom.

Looking forward to the Cruiserweight Classic this summer too. Zack Sabre Jr gets a well-deserved outing on WWE TV, as does Noam Dar (I've been following both these guys for years now, and it's great to see them both get a shot).

Say it quietly, but British wrestling is having a bit of a revival at the moment, with Will Ospreay and Marty Scurrl both getting rave reviews on their work with NJPW and EVOLVE as well.

Edited by FTS Gecko

Shamefully, my knowledge of wrestling is entirely based on the telly with the occasional dilettante dabble in Chikara (King Of Trios 2012 was basically the thing that got me back into wrestling after I tapped out during the grossest excesses of the post-Attitude Era). So I'm super excited for the Cruiserweight Classic to introduce me to a bunch of guys I've not seen before.

Also: super excited by the prospect of Balor/Nakamura. My wife's going to be torn - those are easily her two favourite guys in NXT, like, ever.

I first saw Noam Dar and ZSJ about 5 years ago, was impressed with them both then, and they've come a long way since. Zack's took the Finn Balor route to WWE, wrestling around Europe, Japan and recently EVOLVE. Noam's highlight so far was probably in TNA's British Bootcamp, where he memorably cut a promo on Samoa Joe in Hebrew.

Another one to watch out for who'll be debuting on NXT shortly is Nicola Glencross, aka Scotland's own Nikki Storm.

My gran used to make me watch it during the "Big Daddy" and "Giant Haystacks" era but it always felt staged and weak and I have never watched it as an adult. However - I watched "Beyond the Mat" last week and that documentary changed how I have been looking at it, and I started watching "The Resurrection of Jake The Snake" last night on Netflix (but fell asleep).

Jesus Christ Antonio Cesaro. Are we 100% sure he's from Switzerland and not, f'rinstance, Krypton?

https://twitter.com/tagropemag/status/744715250231042048/photo/1

Money In The Bank as a whole left me a bit flat. Loads of objectively good-to-great wrestling that by and large I didn't really care about, either because we've seen it a million times before or because the outcome wasn't ever in doubt. Still! We've got the prospect of a Shield triple-threat galloping rapidly into view and presumably Natalya dragging poor Becky Lynch into her vortex of terribleness leaves a nice Boss-sized hole where the challenger for the women's title needs to go.

Well... that was unexpected.

I literally cannot wait.

So many guys involved who've paid their dues get a crack at the big time. A couple of old hands and some top names from around the world. TJP, Akira Tozawa, Kota Ibushi, Zack Sabre Jr, Drew Gulak, Noam Dar, Tommasso Ciampa, Johnny Gargano, Cedric Alexander, Rich Swann... This is going to be awesome.

So... is Hunt going to get taken on a one-way trip to Suplex City, or is Lesnar going to get KTFO?

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The smart money's on Hunt, but Lesnar is an absolute animal. This could be a lot of fun.

Edited by FTS Gecko

Think Randy Orton stands a chance at Summer Slam against the Beast Incarnate?

Think Randy Orton stands a chance at Summer Slam against the Beast Incarnate?

Suuuuuuuuuuper intrigued by the draft next week. Not wholly thrilled by the prospect of the brand split, because I don't really want to have to find an extra 2 hours to watch wrestling each week, but if it leads to more TV time for some of the underused talent on the roster that can only be a good thing.

Also: holy **** Kota Ibushi.

Yeah, I like to call Orton the Mahogany Man, because his delivery is as wooden as his skin tone.

I do like a lot of what the guy does - he's one of those few turn-of-the-century WWE products who can go with anyone. Gained a lot of respect for him as well when he protected Bryan following Bryan's stinger injury.

His return against Brock though, yeah, kinda predictable. It'll be a game of cat and mouse, Randy trying to avoid Brock, then getting taken to Suplex City for 90% of the match, then RKO outta nowhere (maybe during an F5 attempt?). I love watching Bork Lazor do his thing, but his thing isn't really about telling complex stories in the ring. Just ragdolling people for twenty minutes.

On 16/10/2015 at 0:52 PM, FTS Gecko said:

On an unrelated note, good to see that the craziness that is the Roberto Rodriguez-inspired Lucha Underground on El Ray Network has thankfully been renewed for a second season. Total and utter insanity - in a good way.

RISE, THREAD! RISE, AND DO MY BIDDIIIIIIIIIIIIING!!!

Shamefully late to the party here, but I've been making my way through LU's second season and hot ****. I've just watched the (first?) trios match between (trying to avoid spoilers) Team Mega Faces and Team Worst People In The World and seriously: mind. Blown.

My favourite low-key awesome thing about the show: the crowd clapping the drumbeat from the Terminator theme for (they call him) Cage.

I've heard a lot of good things about Lucha Underground (it's a Robert Rodriguez project, so it was always going to be good) buy I haven't had chance to watch it yet.

Caught the UK Championship tournament in Blackpool back in Hanuary, was god stuff. Pete Dunne is an absolute beast, and Tyler Bate is really good as well. Hopefully we'll be getting a UK-based weekly show soon

On 10/15/2015 at 5:31 PM, Parravon said:

See, I used to watch the wrestling 20 odd years ago. You had the likes of Hacksaw Jim Duggen, Rowdy Roddy Piper, Rick Rude, the Hart brothers, Brutus the Barber, Hulk Hogan and the Ultimate Warrior. Those guys were entertaining to watch. And pretty much everything happened in the ring. The interviews that would suddenly erupt into a fight. Golden stuff.

It just seems so lame these days by comparison. I know the fighting is fake and it's all about the performance. But at least the older guys knew how to fake a punch. Hell, sometimes they even connected. But some of these newer guys throw a punch that misses by a foot or more, and the opponent still gets flattened by it. And then there's the over dramatised back stage soap opera. Who gives a rat's behind about that?!?

Given the choice, I'd rather watch a rerun of WrestleMania 2 than watch WrestleMania XXXII.

Not 20 years ago....That was closer to 40 years ago. Time she is a flyin'