Hey all

I've just created a lovely Sullustan Gunslinger for an online campaign. I was a bit surprised to see that in the stats for the species no attempt is made to account for the darkvision associated with them. Despite this fluff text in the physiology: "Their eyes are such that they can see up to twenty meters even in total darkness." (AoR core book p.60).

I know you can't really fit everything into the races presented in the books. Of course some things have to be cut out. This just seems like an odd thing to leave out since it is such an integral part of the physiology of this underground race. We could compare this to the Chadra-Fan, which ignore up to 2 setback dice from perception tests, Kel-dors which ignore 2 setback dice for darkness, and Chiss, which remove 1 setback dice added for lighting conditions. I'm sure there is more.

Has anyone seen any explanation from the game developers on this issue? I would have taken less starting XP and no ranks in Skilled Jockey for a little representation of the dark vision any day.

FFG has done a deliberate (and in my book, very successful) attempt at balancing species stats so that no one species is inherently more awesome than any other. Which means that many of the special qualities those species had in earlier iterations of the Star Wars game systems are gone. I get why someone would want X feature returned to their favourite species, but if you look at some previous SW games (West End Games' D6 version in particular) you'll find that some species have ridiculous amounts of special abilities while others have exactly none. Personally I vastly prefer this method.

I agree on your point about balance. And in no way are the Sullustan a favorite, it's the first time I play one. I'm mostly a GM when it comes to Star Wars.

The point I made was that some of the other abilities could have been dropped rather than having a race which lives underground and is described in the fluff on the same page as having perfect night vision up to 20 meters as blind in the dark as a Human. Or they could have re-written the fluff. Doing either of those would have been fine by me. Doing neither seems like an oversight or lazy game design.

This just seems like an odd thing to leave out since it is such an integral part of the physiology of this underground race.

We could compare this to the Chadra-Fan, which ignore up to 2 setback dice from perception tests, Kel-dors which ignore 2 setback dice for darkness, and Chiss, which remove 1 setback dice added for lighting conditions. I'm sure there is more.

Has anyone seen any explanation from the game developers on this issue? I would have taken less starting XP and no ranks in Skilled Jockey for a little representation of the dark vision any day.

Huh. Yeah, that seems a peculiar choice for them to make. Maybe they were trying to make them different to other dark-dwelling species by giving them Skilled Jokey instead of the setback removal. But it's not like every Sullustan works in space so no, that seems a poor choice.

Personally, I'd ask my GM for the setback removal rather than the talent.

They also may have had 2 different writers for the species section of the chapter. One who developed the crunchy rules, and another to write the fluff for the species.

Perhaps the intent was to show that we don't need to apply setback to all characters/species equally. If a Sullustan is in an environment where their attributes are "normal", then they make "normal" rolls and setback aren't considered. So a Perception roll for a Sullustan looking for something in an unlit cave is done with the base difficulty, whereas everyone else will be floundering around with multiple setback or can't even make the roll.

Possibly. If that was the intent perhaps they have said so somewhere?

They did. It specifically states they can see up to 20 meters. So there's no need for a mechanical modification.

He he, I'll try that with my online-GM. I'll let you know how that goes

Well, this GM would totally allow the dark vision. It seems crystal clear, and I can't quite imagine the argument against it.

That said, in a situation where there was lots of light and shadows, setback might still be applied because of the contrast. On a brightly lit day it might still be hard to see into a dark alley...I think I'd still apply setback "normally" in those cases, and those couldn't be removed like a Kel-dor might.

Setback is more about applying a tolerance range, and setback removal is about claiming a higher tolerance range. So a Sullustan might have the same "contrast range" as a human given a specific light intensity, whereas a Kel-dor has a higher contrast range.

You make a very convincing argument. I'll try to see if my GM agrees.

You make a very convincing argument. I'll try to see if my GM agrees.

He does.

You make a very convincing argument. I'll try to see if my GM agrees.

He does.

What a reasonable fellow

What a reasonable fellow

Shhh! You'll ruin my reputation here at FFG.

Remember to take the bad with the good. Sullustan eyes are vulnerable to bright light and tend to suffer from prolonged exposure to what other species consider "normal" lighting conditions.

Hench my purchase of tinted goggles!

Hench my purchase of tinted goggles!

OK, and everybody else purchases the goggles that negate darkness penalties, so it's a wash.

Hench my purchase of tinted goggles!

OK, and everybody else purchases the goggles that negate darkness penalties, so it's a wash.

Not exactly. The goggles he bought only cost 5 credits. Far cheaper than NV ones.

Hench my purchase of tinted goggles!

OK, and everybody else purchases the goggles that negate darkness penalties, so it's a wash.

Not exactly. The goggles he bought only cost 5 credits. Far cheaper than NV ones.

The goggles you mention are obviously the cheap no-named ones made by child labor on Nar Shaddaa. When you're protecting your eyes, you get what you pay for, so pay for the best.

Hench my purchase of tinted goggles!

OK, and everybody else purchases the goggles that negate darkness penalties, so it's a wash.

Not exactly. The goggles he bought only cost 5 credits. Far cheaper than NV ones.

The goggles you mention are obviously the cheap no-named ones made by child labor on Nar Shaddaa. When you're protecting your eyes, you get what you pay for, so pay for the best.

The children on Nar Shaddaa need work too...