tractor beam VSDs...hmmm, who's speed 2 now!?!?

My isd

I think the biggest winnder from Wave 1 here is the Assault Frigate MkII. Ackbar turns this guy into a monster, and with the shields of an ISD, it is potentially even MORE powerful than the ISD now with the right build, and will come out to less points. An imperial player opting to go with zero squadrons now, is going to have a significantly more difficult time.

Corvettes are also a huge winner with Ackbar. In fact, the only Rebel ship that isn't boosted tremendously now is the Nebulon.

Ah yes, the AFII... No longer do I worry about what it is doing. The speed 3 cheese wedge has taken many of my fears of the AFII dancing around me away. Now I just hunt it down.

I think the biggest winnder from Wave 1 here is the Assault Frigate MkII. Ackbar turns this guy into a monster, and with the shields of an ISD, it is potentially even MORE powerful than the ISD now with the right build, and will come out to less points. An imperial player opting to go with zero squadrons now, is going to have a significantly more difficult time.

Corvettes are also a huge winner with Ackbar. In fact, the only Rebel ship that isn't boosted tremendously now is the Nebulon.

200% increase in red dice out the sides is pretty good.

Sure, but the Nebulon's strongest side is it's front. You generally don't want to expose your sides with a Neb, due to their weaker shielding. Additionally you can take the title and turn crits into double damage as well, so with a focus fire and slaved turrets you can potentially roll 10 damage out your front arc. Combine that with 3 shields in the front, and that's STILL my pick for which side I want pointed at the enemy.

Granted they DO still get a benefit from ackbar,..... just not as significant as the other ships do.

the benefits from akbar are pretty exaggerated on the forums seems like

the CR-90 does not actually get that much out of it. It's a defensively frail little thing (which akbar does not help with in the slightest) which only gets some slight flexibility when Akbar marries it's front arc to its side; not a terribly significant benefit given Akbar's cost nor the shorter width of that hull zone

CR-90s are good under akbar not because akbar's good with CR-90s but because CR-90s are just good ships

the Afmk2 and Shrimp benefit far more than any other ship due to their focus on broadsides and how much their maneuverability depends on it

the shrimp benefits the most because the scout variant becomes a credible long range threat as well as a close range terror

The Nebulon-B is still kind of the red-headed stepchild of the Rebel fleet, but wave 2 does have some nice things for it. Slaved Turbolasers seem like the perfect fit for them, as they generally only want to be firing out of the front arc anyway. Turbolaser reroute circuits are another nice upgrade for them, particularly for the Salvation. Finally Rieekan (sp?) makes the 7-Neb list interesting (along with hilarious).

CR-90s are good under akbar not because akbar's good with CR-90s but because CR-90s are just good ships

I don't see it as an exxageration at all. A CR-90 can stay at long range, throwing 4 red dice per turn. And they are cheap so you are throwing down a ton more ships that way as well. 3 CR-90s in an Ackbar build are straight up fierce. I'm not saying they are bad ships, but I am saying 3 of them cut down a Victory from long range with very little effort in my last game. All while being at range 3 and having evades to protect them from my counter fire.

And they are worth so little points, that at least when playing against an Imperial opponent, I'm not as likely to throw my front arc against them and dedicate myself to hunting them down.... Instead I'll try to return fire withside arcs of 1 or 2 red dice.... which stand a very good chance to do zero damage when my opponent has evade tokens available.

I do agree that the afm2 gets a huge benefit. (Haven't playtested the MC30 yet). The MC30 is going to be fun to use. I really think Ackbar has shifted the balance of power so much that the rebels are the new boss of this wave.

I can't wait for the full release of wave 2...reading about all the great combos and new exciting stuff to really "tie the room together" of wave 1 gives me that lovely sadistic feeling.

However is wave 2 heading more towards a squardonless build? Or am I just reading into it poorly?

I can't wait for the full release of wave 2...reading about all the great combos and new exciting stuff to really "tie the room together" of wave 1 gives me that lovely sadistic feeling.

However is wave 2 heading more towards a squardonless build? Or am I just reading into it poorly?

Reading poorly imo...wave 2 will kill all-ship lists. I'm pretty certain of that. The rogue keyword alone ensures this. People taking no squads will get hurt hard by fire sprays and YT-2400s and eventually start taking at least minimal fighter screens fairly rapidly.

I can't wait for the full release of wave 2...reading about all the great combos and new exciting stuff to really "tie the room together" of wave 1 gives me that lovely sadistic feeling.

However is wave 2 heading more towards a squardonless build? Or am I just reading into it poorly?

Reading poorly imo...wave 2 will kill all-ship lists. I'm pretty certain of that. The rogue keyword alone ensures this. People taking no squads will get hurt hard by fire sprays and YT-2400s and eventually start taking at least minimal fighter screens fairly rapidly.

So, back to the origional OP.

Sounds like wave 1 Rebels will be the "losers" due to how awesome Ackbar is.
Not down and out, just at a disadvantage. But, on the up side, many Rebel players are going to get two MC80s, so Ackbars should be up for trade. Or just copy a friends and leave huge "hints" about what you want Santa to leave you.

I think that Wave two is bringing out the firepower a bit, as opposed to the more maneuver/knife fighting-centric things I saw in Wave one. Ackbar is going to be a beast though.

CR-90s are good under akbar not because akbar's good with CR-90s but because CR-90s are just good ships

I don't see it as an exxageration at all. A CR-90 can stay at long range, throwing 4 red dice per turn. And they are cheap so you are throwing down a ton more ships that way as well. 3 CR-90s in an Ackbar build are straight up fierce. I'm not saying they are bad ships, but I am saying 3 of them cut down a Victory from long range with very little effort in my last game. All while being at range 3 and having evades to protect them from my counter fire.

you can do all of this already without akbar

the CR-90 is the most maneuverable ship in the game; getting double-arcs on a VSD or higher should not be terribly difficult

unless you're using it as filler for that essential extra activation, save yourself the 8+ points and get yourself a commander with other benefits (such as MM or possibly Riekan)

However is wave 2 heading more towards a squadronless build? Or am I just reading into it poorly?

Squadronless builds are less viable in Wave 2 - not only because of Rogue - but also because with the increased volume of fire that 400points allows, it is now entirely likely for a medium base ship to go down in one round, especially with squadrons in play. You need an answer for enemy squadrons or else they will simply eat you alive.

CR-90s are good under akbar not because akbar's good with CR-90s but because CR-90s are just good ships

I don't see it as an exxageration at all. A CR-90 can stay at long range, throwing 4 red dice per turn. And they are cheap so you are throwing down a ton more ships that way as well. 3 CR-90s in an Ackbar build are straight up fierce. I'm not saying they are bad ships, but I am saying 3 of them cut down a Victory from long range with very little effort in my last game. All while being at range 3 and having evades to protect them from my counter fire.

you can do all of this already without akbar

the CR-90 is the most maneuverable ship in the game; getting double-arcs on a VSD or higher should not be terribly difficult

unless you're using it as filler for that essential extra activation, save yourself the 8+ points and get yourself a commander with other benefits (such as MM or possibly Riekan)

Fair point I suppose, but perhaps you are just far better at setting up range 3 double-arcs than the folks I play with. Getting a double arc on a vic, while staying at range 3 might be doable SOMETIMES, but not consistently. To steer the right way it runs the risk of bringing you closer, and being closer both ruins your chances of Cancelling the dreaded double damage dice... and offers blue dice for your opponent's counterattacks. It's far easier to stay safe while relying only on a side-arc shot.

I do worry a little at increasing deadly-ness of long range. Really making the promise of black dice less rewarding. Time will tell, however.

Until they make a ship that can shoot on someone else's turn, Demolisher remains the best ship in the game.

More options and more cards and ships to choose from are always better than less, so players using a mix of both waves should have an advantage.

But 'can wave 1 hang with wave 2?'

A pure wave 1 fleet would probably demolish a pure wave 2 fleet.

I think Nebs are good, but you can't anchor a fleet with them, and if its not Salvation, it better have something else on it to make it better.

It's a finisher. Be it the ship you hold back in the fleet or the one you fly wide and flank with, it's really only good for 2-3 turns in range of an opponent unless you want to sacrifice it.

I want to find a good fleet setup without Ackbar.

I think Nebs are good, but you can't anchor a fleet with them, and if its not Salvation, it better have something else on it to make it better.

It's a finisher. Be it the ship you hold back in the fleet or the one you fly wide and flank with, it's really only good for 2-3 turns in range of an opponent unless you want to sacrifice it.

I want to find a good fleet setup without Ackbar.

I don't know about that. The Rieekan Neb-B kamikaze jousting list sounds hilariously promising. It's not for me, but still something that could be fun. I'm looking for that non-Ackbar list as well. For rebels, I think that's going to be a squadron centric Dodonna list. I expect to see a major squadron comeback in this wave, and Dodonna is the best commander for them. Precision Strikes just begs to be used.

CR-90s are good under akbar not because akbar's good with CR-90s but because CR-90s are just good ships

I don't see it as an exxageration at all. A CR-90 can stay at long range, throwing 4 red dice per turn. And they are cheap so you are throwing down a ton more ships that way as well. 3 CR-90s in an Ackbar build are straight up fierce. I'm not saying they are bad ships, but I am saying 3 of them cut down a Victory from long range with very little effort in my last game. All while being at range 3 and having evades to protect them from my counter fire.

you can do all of this already without akbar

the CR-90 is the most maneuverable ship in the game; getting double-arcs on a VSD or higher should not be terribly difficult

unless you're using it as filler for that essential extra activation, save yourself the 8+ points and get yourself a commander with other benefits (such as MM or possibly Riekan)

Fair point I suppose, but perhaps you are just far better at setting up range 3 double-arcs than the folks I play with. Getting a double arc on a vic, while staying at range 3 might be doable SOMETIMES, but not consistently. To steer the right way it runs the risk of bringing you closer, and being closer both ruins your chances of Cancelling the dreaded double damage dice... and offers blue dice for your opponent's counterattacks. It's far easier to stay safe while relying only on a side-arc shot.

I agree. The skill-cap is much lower relying on ackbar sideshots vs. double arc skillshots at range.

the cost of lowering the skillcap on the offense greatly raises it on the defense. Having pitiful health and only one redirect at medium/close range = squishy cr-90s without MM. The defensive output you get from her (for cheaper than akbar) has a greater impact on their performance than akbar just squishing their arcs together

also, Nebs are a fine anchor to your list as long as you know how to fly them (speed 2 with a banked nav token). They don't deal a lot of damage, but they are surprisingly tanky for their cost and they can support squadrons (with commands and potent anti-squadron fire) to overcome their native lack of damage output

they're not something to spam as the entirety of a list, but 2-3 form a perfect anvil for you to hammer with some other part of the fleet, be it cr-90s, assault frigates, shrimps, mon cal or squadrons

Is an all wave 1 fleet now obsolete? Sure wave 2 adds a lot more options and that's great, but does it mean that a wave 1 fleet will be completely outclassed now when facing wave 2's new toys?

I think the Assault Frigates stay solid. My kneejerk about the lil fish (Corvettes) is to cringe. But, what do I know. Practice beats speculation almost every time. So START PLAYING!!!

/RickFlair WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

After playing with rebel ships for hours in a builder I ended up settling on an Ackbar-less list with a Nebulon-B...blasphemy, but I like to be a rebel! (No ISD imp here)