Is an all wave 1 fleet now obsolete? Sure wave 2 adds a lot more options and that's great, but does it mean that a wave 1 fleet will be completely outclassed now when facing wave 2's new toys?

So. . . Doom. . . And. . . Gloom. . . Great. . .

To answer you, no. Nothing has replaced the need of a Demolisher, the Assault Frigate, or even the VSD.

far from it, wave 2 merely adds more options in an already open game as far as fleet builds go.

AFIIs are now terrifying with Ackbar in the mix. Wave 2 has in no way made wave 1 obsolete. If anything it has made previous choices better. I foresee squadrons making aa big comeback. Mass firesprays moving independently are going to be a huge problem. The best counter? Lots of cheap fighters and the squadron command.

But, that being said, a Bigger Toolbox will (almost) always trump a Lesser Toolbox, when the relative skills of the people are fairly equal.

In what I've watched so far, someone with Wave 2 Equipment has had an easier time against people who have only Wave 1 things...

In Much the same way that someone who had only Multiples of the Core Set would struggle against someone who had Access to Wave 1 Expansions...

I think you guys are misreading the OP. They're wondering if a fleet comprised only of Wave 1 stuff will be outclassed, not if anything from Wave 1 is still good or functional.

Yes, Rebel scum can not stand against the righteous wrath of wave 2 Imperial might, surrender now.


Obsolete, no. At a disadvantage, probably.

wave 1 only rebels REALLY have a hard time putting out a "knock out" punch relative to wave 1 imps and both factions' wave 2 (outside of 3 yavbwings).

In terms of kiting and being annoying, a cr90 is still a cr90.

With the new card alone how things work changes. New support actions and combanations work to really hurt having wave 1 only ships and cards. And since most people by now know the combinations they know how to mess them up too.

If you play against someone with equal skill and you have only Wave 1 and he has both Wave 1 and 2 then he has an advantage over you. No question, but that doesn't mean you can't win. It means you ahve to accept you are running a most likely weaker fleet then he is.

If this post is about your worry of pay to win then you are half right half wrong.

A. They need to make money so they want you to buy the new ships. Seriously it's a company they need to pay people.

B. Options let fleets be more personlized and any play style can be used effeciently. Which is a really good thing cause I wanted black dice as a Rebel and now I have it.

C. To make a wave 1 fleet just as good as a wave 2 fleet you just need a few cards which you can trade for or get for free if you have friends that don't need them

D. Having Wave 2 ships doesn't mean you'll win but it does mean you have an advantage over Wave 1 only

E. Wave 1 ship will have a home in each fleet even Wave 1 Admirals and Cards. You tell an Imp player they don't need Gunnary Team on that ISD.

So. . . Doom. . . And. . . Gloom. . . Great. . .

I think you guys are misreading the OP. They're wondering if a fleet comprised only of Wave 1 stuff will be outclassed, not if anything from Wave 1 is still good or functional.

Yes that is exactly the question! Certainly some kit from Wave 1 will still fit in quite nicely in wave 2, as Lyraeus points out. But that's not to say necessarily that even though this is a points based game, that 400pts of just Wave 1 well played can expect for balanced results against an equally well handled 400pts of a fleet with Wave 2 options.

Maybe 400pts of pure wave 1 can do just as well as 400pts of equally well handled fleet with wave 2 options? I'd love to see some fleet build ideas and AARs that indicate just that, buy honestly I'm not sure. I'll be getting in such a game soon. But I expect my opponent's better skill at this game will make it hard to tell how much wave 2 options, that I will not have will, be helping to decide the issue.

well, it's not really Wave 1 vs Wave 2

it's Wave 1 vs [Wave 2 & Wave 1]

putting that in perspective helps

(plus there's the obvious joke that 300 points of Wave 1 should lose to 400 points of Wave 1 + 2 or something is very very wrong...)

but ignoring the new ships, what exactly is Wave 2 bringing (for rebels)?

well, Akbar is basically going to rewrite the meta. Before, it was all about dem Glads bout dem Glads (no vics) and playing around their close range devastation. Welp, now we also have to deal with the exact opposite

That's going to put a damper on my "B-wings or bust" style for sure; going to have to compensate with some long range firepower

If you play against someone with equal skill and you have only Wave 1 and he has both Wave 1 and 2 then he has an advantage over you. No question, but that doesn't mean you can't win. It means you ahve to accept you are running a most likely weaker fleet then he is.

If this post is about your worry of pay to win then you are half right half wrong.

That seems like an honest answer that directly addresses the question.

I'm personally not worried about having to "pay to keep up." I can expend more money on hobbies than just about anyone in my area. I already have Wave 2 preordered and paid for myself, but I am a bit concerned though for gamers who have much less ability to do that and may put off about continuing in the game. I use to play a certain steampunk tactical game for which I recall that the company play-tested reverse balance to earlier releases with each new release. In the years I played that game I thought they did OK with that as I just stuck with my basic original force and did well enough and had fun. It was not a "main game" for me so I was not interested in trying to "keep up" on that one. I still had fun bucking the updating trend and enjoyed the game as a nice break from my "main" game.

I'd like to think this game is getting a lot of reverse release play-testing for balance and that the coolness factor alone of new ships would compel sales on its own right. Maybe they do and maybe we'll see some Wave 1 only fleets still rock on?

if said steampunk tactical game is Warmachine, it's a bit different

there are no upgrades in Warmachine outside of unit attachments (which can be viewed as fixes in the same way FFG fixes X-wing miniatures), just new units/jacks/casters etc.

Wave 2 introduces new ships and new ways to customize existing ships, which keeps the existing ships relevant and the money flowing out of our wallets

In case of limited funds, easiest thing to do is proxy. If you're running just Wave 1 ships with Wave 2 upgrades available through proxy, you're going to be a-okay.

2nd easiest is borrowing from local group

3rd is card hunting on ebay

Glads still have their use, they will just have better long and medium range support now.

B-Wings are even deadlier I think. With long range squadron commands, one can use them on their own further out from a ship. This means wider screens. Sad that the Yavaris can't take Boosted Coms

I'm thinking from a rebel v rebel perspective

chasing down broadsides with B-wings is stupid difficult; they're much harder to pin down with mine-field squadrons than GSDs simply due to their range

that's probably where the Silly Bombers, which move 150% the distance of Bs, may shine

option 2 is try to beat out akbar enough to force him into engagement

best I can manage there is two Escort Nebs (on Yavaris) with 4 Bs (one keyan) and Jan

then Salvation + Raymus on a support refit followed by 2 CR-90a with TLRCs

I don't think it will be a giant problem. The wave 2 isn't BETTER, just more options. Those options can lead to a far greater variety of fleets. That said, smart buying will allow a single faction player to do just fine with a minimum of purchases. HOWEVER, don't expect to get by with just a core box. They do need to be willing to buy enough ships to field a reasonable fleet. They just don't have to buy everything.

if said steampunk tactical game is Warmachine, it's a bit different

there are no upgrades in Warmachine outside of unit attachments (which can be viewed as fixes in the same way FFG fixes X-wing miniatures), just new units/jacks/casters etc.

Wave 2 introduces new ships and new ways to customize existing ships, which keeps the existing ships relevant and the money flowing out of our wallets

In case of limited funds, easiest thing to do is proxy. If you're running just Wave 1 ships with Wave 2 upgrades available through proxy, you're going to be a-okay.

2nd easiest is borrowing from local group

3rd is card hunting on ebay

I think the point was that that game system made a public point of at least trying to ensure balance was maintained between releases. I'd like to think its happening with the game as well.

i was toying with a 2 VSD 4 Raider lists.

Raider I-Class Corvette (44pts)

Raider I-Class Corvette (44pts)

Raider I-Class Corvette (44pts)

Raider I-Class Corvette (44pts)

Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (73pts)

Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (73pts)

This leaves you with 78 points for upgrades, running ozzel makes this deadly still having 58 points to play with.

My ISD, glad and vic where wiped out by two vics and a glad. Mainly due to the other players carrier and rhymer ball.

Come round 2 even moving at speed two for bother fleet those bombers moving at 5 where in range with rhymer. Four black hit dropped my front shield. He had good dice roles.

But it all comes down to planning and setup. Think rhymer is a must. At 43 points you get four black dice bombers

Wave 2 is, essentially, the same as Wave 1 for the core set. Core was garbage. Wave 1 gave more options and made the game feel more like a game; however, it was/is still missing a lot of things. Wave 2 basiaclly "completes" the game. It gives the full range of options to both factions and the entire game functions like a well-oiled machine now. As people have said: the game is done and everything after is just gravy.

In my opinion screed+acm glads (for example) will still be competitive and motti/Tarkin vics will find as much place as Vader ISD's.

While wave 2 will obviously give me increased flexibility, the main lists I am looking at still revolve around the same core ideas as wave 1 (for imps anyway) which will mean that very similar lists to what we have now may still be competitive .

From a rebel perspective in a mirror match I don't think wave 1 has a chance against Ackbar...

It's interesting how among my buddies, the VSD has found its way back into builds when looking at 400 point builds.

It's interesting how among my buddies, the VSD has found its way back into builds when looking at 400 point builds.

The extra 100 points really helps fill the field.

I can honestly say that 400 pts has made me want a third Victory. I have had plenty of great games with them. Wave 2 has just given them more options to play with.

tractor beam VSDs...hmmm, who's speed 2 now!?!?