monkeylite said:

I suppose the only major difference would be the stance meter. GWFRPB would always be on agressive while Obama the RPG would always be on inactive, but social.

Armrek said:

I CONCUR AND REFUSE TO CRITICIZE THE GAME UNTIL I SEE HOW IT WORKS FOR MYSELF.

Everyone wants to blame FFG for this - it's GW's license. They tell FFG how to do it. It looks like the special dice system was already in place before it came over from BI, on request from GW and their myriad of "use special dice for commands/misses/etc." So even the special dice aren't really an original concept of FFG's. Maybe the way the dice are used is, but the fact that there were going to be special dice and a move towards the MMO experience was already in the "cards" so to speak.

What's funny is I keep hearing that this is Descent. It's similar, but not exactly the same at all.

I say call it IDS: Independent Dice System

Luther said:

If WFRP is the Obama of RPG's then Its gana screw up everythnig turn RPG's into Maoist China...YAY!! no i disagree with that 200% This is more like the Lincoln of RPG's a game that will liberate the inslaved with the help of U. Grant ( those that like the game)

hmm some good recipes out there. Might try one of them

btw I think Obama deserves the nobel price. Not that it matters but I am from the country that awards it. Its our way to influence the big countries.

From a peace loving nation

watch this wonderful commercial:

Mal Reynolds said:

i would rather see Al Gore with 5 more then Obama EVER getting that one...he didnt deserve it one bit......and I hold the Nobel Process in less respect then before.....he hasnt done ANYTHING close to what he got it for....but enough of the politics...lets get back to gaming!! : ) i have a game this weekend...my first session of the final 4E dnd campain

Mal Reynolds said:

Beautiful poem. Thanks. It was nice to be able to read it on English, but more powerful for having heard it in its native language.

Farin said:

Maybe you`re right, I agree lets not talk politics. At least watch this

McClaud said:

What gave you that idea? I got the impression GW just said "yeah that sounds cool, whatever" and left it up to FFG.

NezziR said:

aah thanks saying that. we are a very patriotic people, so when you people like you says so, it makes me well...prouder.

Thanks!

Farin said:

Yeah but "Dubya" Bush left a scary impression on the rest of the world. People think that it is abnormal and positive when an american president ISN'T listening to his itchy trigger finger, starting arbitrary wars and such. The impression is that american presidents can't wait to get stuck in with the next good war.

The way they see it is that Obama seems to focus his efforts on issues within the US borders rather than getting into more conflicts with other countries like certain yahoos from texas who should not be mentioned by name seem to enjoy doing.

Of course, the way Obama handles things in the US is debatable. Some people don't like the idea of spending tax money on public healthcare, some do. But in comparison of choosing between bombing the hell out of poor people in third world countries just because the prez "feel threatend" by some little warmongering despot over there, squabbling about public healthcare seems pretty insignificant.

So in that regard, Obama is an improvement. That being said, it's not that hard to be considered an "improvement" when the last guy in office was "dubya" Bush.

Let's keep political discussions and punditry to other forums and keep discussions focused on the appropriate forum topics.

macd21 said:

The fact that Jay Little still has to clear every change with GW before they put it to print.

It was rather obvious from the FFG presentation at GenCon that GW still has tight reigns on the project. He stated they set the format the game should come in (3 books, expansions, etc) and what the expectations are. Little even says they clear every change through GW before they go to development with it.

ynnen said:

with that in mind, "So in that regard, Obama is an improvement. That being said, it's not that hard to be considered an "improvement" when the last guy in office was "dubya" Bush." no he is the worst president ever. BUT IT MOST END HERE. WE ALL SAID OUR MINDS AND WE MUST AGREE TO DISAGREE.

ON WARD TO GAMING!!!!!!!!

some good names would be

Symbolic Dice System: SDS

Symbolic Dice Card Reference: SDCR

Card Token Custom Dice: CTCD

The first 2 seem, to me, to be the best ways to discribe this new system without leaning to far to one side ( haters or likers ) and i think it would be smart, like WotC, for FFG to name the system and use the Open Game Licence deal so let people Mod the system....would be very cool : )

I apologize if my comment/metaphor attempt at humor led us down the road to political discussion. It was meant as a one-off (neither pro-O or anti-O), and not meant to spark debate.

I actually like SDS, Symbolic Dice System, Farin.

McClaud said:

I could be wrong, but I think Jay and Co. designed the system. They had to run certain things through GW to make sure that they didn't violate the 'cannon' or bleed into an area they are not authorized to use (ones that may be reserved by GW for future expansion), but I think the game mechanics are all FFG. GW would probably reserve the 'final word' on things, just to make sure no one devalues their property, but I think purchasing the license gives you certain privilages.

NezziR said:

very true but GW nows a good game when they see it so....im sure if GW ok'ed it then its gana be good

The Bauble Beraucracy TM

Necronomicus said:

i dont get it lol....explain?

Depending on how well this system is doing grim dark and smooth playing, I want to adapt it for use with Thieves World. (in fact, FFG should grab that license, I think).

Some of the classes shown seem generic enough.

It'll be great if FFG releases Thieves World SDS. For now I'll just have to adapt Thieves World d20 to do the job.

Bauble

1. A small, showy ornament of little value; a trinket.
2. Archaic. A mock scepter carried by a court jester.

Bureaucracy

.
1. Administration of a government chiefly through bureaus or departments staffed with nonelected officials.
2. The departments and their officials as a group: promised to reorganize the federal bureaucracy.
2.
1. Management or administration marked by hierarchical authority among numerous offices and by fixed procedures: The new department head did not know much about bureaucracy.
2. The administrative structure of a large or complex organization: a midlevel manager in a corporate bureaucracy.
3. An administrative system in which the need or inclination to follow rigid or complex procedures impedes effective action: innovative ideas that get bogged down in red tape and bureaucracy.

Buable Bureaucracy ( a small, showy ornament of little value, a trinket) the dice, the tokens the puzzle pieces the cards in 3E ( The administrative structure...) is the rules system that uses the Baubles.

So therefore.

Bauble Beureaucracy: A rules system administered with the use of petty objects of amusement.

Necronomicus said:

wasnt sure on the Bauble.......thnx : ) and i can see that......but thats a big name...and rather negative....

McClaud said:

Clearing stuff with the licencor is standard procedure, but this game is clearly an FFG production. GW are just nodding their heads and saying "sure, whatever". The only thing GW probably insisted on was the timeframe for the setting (just prior to the SoC).

macd21 said:

ill send a Email at Jay to see what he has to say about this

ynnen said:

ehm, you`re right. I was just distracted about the political comments. But I agree heartily, lets not go into politics guys. Nothing can wreck a gaming night for my party as much as a political debate. I`m sorry for contributing to it.

Sincerly a political engaged roleplayer.

I find it funny that so many people are suggesting that WFRP 3E isn't coming up with something innovative or new. They then go on to put forth 20 different games that did various things that WFRP is doing. Using this same logic, Tolkien wasn't special because he wasn't doing anything that others didn't do before him. White Wolf's storytelling games were unoriginal. D&D was a rip off. Magic: TG is another game that had nothing new in it. It's all been done before.

I've never heard of or seen an RPG that is innovating using the same logic people are using against WFRP. Name anything, I dare you.

The problem with this line of thinking is it ignores one simple thing: WFRP is combining a lot of ideas into one package. Show me the game that does this all together, and maybe we'll have something, but no one has done it yet. Why? Because it doesn't exist.

Also, why would FFG want to rerelease 2E? If everyone is so upset with 3E being different from 2E, why does it matter? You still have 2E material, 2E books, and 2E rules. If your group doesn't want to make the switch, where is the harm? Do your books burn up when 3E comes out?

Listen, I'll tell you why 3E as being put out by FFG is better then a minor upgrade over 2E.

1. WFRP 2E is basically competing in a bloated market. D&D4E is out, and a direct competitor to WFRP. Games like Dark Heresy and Rogue Trader can afford to be the way they are because they are a different them entirely from D&D. WFRP isn't. It's fantasy. It's just a different set of rule and a different world. That's pretty much it. If someone wants to play fantasy, and they go to pick up a new book, chances are they are looking at D&D. It's got the market share, you can't deny this. So, making 3E just an update to 2E isn't innovative, new, or intelligent. It's what already exists out there. And we aren't even talking about 3.5/Pathfinder.

2. If 3E was just an update to 2E, it would be insulting. Why buy the game you already have? Why but a small upgrade? Books don't burn when a new edition comes out. FFG is even offering up the WFRP books up as PDF's, so you can find what you might be missing and still play the game if your group enjoys it. Bringing in new players isn't difficult because you can still get the books. However, if 3E was just 2E, you're target audience (2E players) might not buy into it. Why not? Why should they. Either the game is close enough that you don't need it, or it's new enough that it changes a lot of things. FFG went with something completely new.

3. 3E as described is a great way to get people into playing role playing if they've never played before. It appears simple enough that you don't have to spend time learning the game, but rather you can introduce a player to the game and they are having fun playing the game. I'm sorry, but too many RPGs feel the need to infect their books with lots of charts and what not. Frankly, I don't want to open the book at the gaming table. I want everything in front of me, easy to read and ready to go. People mock the power cards of 4E, but really, it's just an easier way to organize and handle powers. I'd rather have cards then flip through the book every time I cast a spell. Seriously! Power cards are just another way of organizing spells! More intelligent, even.

Seriously, if WFRP 3E isn't your type of RPG, your in luck! Their are many, many, many more games you will probably be happy with, including 2E. However, for someone who WFRP 3E would interest, there aren't many, if any, options out there. I just don't understand the complaints. If 2E is so good, why do you want to switch to a 3E so badly?