As for the Timeline Neutrality discussion, let me point the following:

It's different to argue for a clearly defined time period when releasing the RPG ("The Emperor is now Iweko I, Spider are around and hunted like pesky arachnids, folks are fighting all around, alliances are X, Y, and Z"), and giving people an information dump (something that I think is what kinzen was referring to). The background in 4th Edition, previous and future ones, can, and has been, restricted to just a timeline with major events that spans 2-3 pages. I think that's easily manageable for everyone.

What I at least mean with my stance against timeline neutrality is that I want said time period for the RPG to be clearly defined... and to be assumed that said period -is- clearly defined. Not the half-and-half approach we saw in 4ed, where it was heavily hinted at the current time, but at the same time it was said it was timeline neutral. The "it's not fish, but also not meat" approach is something I personally don't like at all.

Regarding lethality: as a GM, I HATE killing PCs (much more so than when I'm playing and my character is killed) and will almost never do it as the result of a dice roll. It will almost always be a clearly defined choice, "You can do X, but you are going to die if you do." Now this may come after a failed dice roll, but I will still present that choice. But that is my GMing style , I still want a system that reflects the fiction of the world, whether it be lethal or non-lethal. The system guides the players to realistically portray their characters within the setting (a lethal systems will discourage players from attacking a superior force with the expectation that they will win and not be injured), while the style of the table ensures that the type of story we are trying to tell can be told (the players choose to attack a superior force knowing it will likely lead to their deaths, because that is the type of story they want to play).

Isn't the only difference between your approach and the lethal one me and others were arguing for, the fact that:

A) We consider all fights lethal - so we force people to think twice before going all swords-blazing at the minimum oportunity (I call this the "D&D Complex: If you see a problem, hit it with a sword")

B) We don't say players -will- die if they do X... we say they -may- die. That way, we safeguard our position as GMs, as it is not the GM (as in, the individual) that kills the character (which can turn ugly with some players), but rather a mix of bad luck and player choices.

No, I don't think so. Because with regards to A) I consider all fights potentially lethal and B) I am never the person who kills a character, it is always up to the player of that character. While what you propose suggests that bad luck and player choices can as a mix lead to character death, I try to remove bad luck from that as much as possible - purely a stylistic approach.

Again, I'm purely talking about gaming style not system, when discussing my personal approach to gaming. I want a system that emulates the fiction (which in the case of L5R, I perceive to be a highly lethal setting). But if the setting is reimagined or reworked by FFG to be less lethal, then I would want a less lethal system to go along with it.

I guess in the end, I'm hopeful that people who are arguing for a less lethal system are looking at the setting, system, and style to find where their disappointment is coming from. Does the setting not meet your expectations (is it too lethal for your taste)? Does the system not match the setting (is the setting not lethal, but the system is)? Or is it the style of your game (the GM wants the dice to fall where they may, but you want a more narrative focused game)? If it is a style or setting issue, changing the system isn't really addressing the issue.

Sndwurks Brought out a few Good points. The role and keep system must be retained and maintained. Roll & Keep is the best combat dice roll system for rpg ever.

I am confused about insite system being obsolete. Acrewing experience points to advance the character. How else would you do that? I'm not against a change. but just how else?

One thing that started in 2nd edition was lets not suggest to much violence. A decapitation shot became the euphemistic called shot. What are we calling? The 3rd vertebra. Medieval combat was deadly really-deadly. Keep it deadly. Also Praying became meditation, silly and confusing.

The art of the duel: The art of settling down crab players "you'll do fine stop crying." I like it and I usually played lions. I wish there was a mechanic for seduction like there was in Victory games James bond rpg

Never warmed up to spells in the traditional rpg since I thought keep the focus on the rings as the shugenja source of power. I essentially visualised attack rays base on the preferred ring. Ceremony spells where a good idea

I am angry today. Angry and confused about this change darn angry. Twenty years ago i declared i like L5R rpg. Like it I loved it. It was L5R, it was a RPG and it was the best RPG rules I ever read and still are. In that moment of my blissful happiness I knew I really felt I had just doomed it! If I like it; it would die! Twenty years ya that's a good run. But I thought we could of killed D+D with it.

I made my 3 raise and spent my void points got a few explosions. I kept the faith!

That's very true of the setting.

The system of magic, however, doesn't really have much synergy with the setting material. For the most part, the system of magic in L5R 4e could easily be used for any magic in any setting with just a new paint job and almost no modification under the hood. There's nothing really there to distinguish Rokugani "magic as an extension of a kami-based religion" from POWS (plain olde wizzard spells) magic. Flinging spells as a Shugenja in the L5R RPG doesn't really feel that much different from a spell-caster in any other system/setting combo.

Oh come on... Then a Lion Deathseeker is an awesome berserker that every Lion wants to be because of their power on the battlefield? Nope, because it's a dishonored Lion wanting to regain his honor or dying doing so...

Also, you say there's nothing that shows system-wise the fact that they are based on kami? How about the universal spells that you have even before selecting your spells? Commune, Sense and Summon. These three spells are directly in this direction. Also, the fact that you have to roll a Ring instead of a trait shows that have to work with your spiritual connectivity with kamis of this elements.

Are you suggesting that they should remove "Spellcasting Skill" and use "Theology skill" instead? Will that make a difference? A priest doesn't mean it should be a frail healer, heck look at the Kuni Shugenja, they are far from being a frail healer and they aren't afrain to throw everything they have, even themselves, against an Oni. I really wonder what is your definition of "Priest" because if your definition is really "A frail healer praying to god" then change it, because that's not the definition of a Shugenja...

I am suggesting that they should be focused on doing priestly things. Blessings, curses, divination, the ability to absolve the followers of their faith of their sins ( go talk to a shugenja, get back a portion of the honor you lost performing a misdeed. How cool would that be?). The ability to commune with the divine (sense, commune, banish). That's all they need to do their job. They don't have to be ultra versatile and effective at everything.... even before they spend xp on actual skills.

I don't think that's actually too much to ask, do you? that the warriors be the best at waging war?

On lethality;

I find it interesting that Wick, in revisiting samurai rp after L5R, went on to bring the PCs current daimyo, village, etc to greater mechanical relevance. I can't recall whether he made rules or suggestions for family / close knit characters to play after a PC dies, but I'd consider that a viable answer to PC death.

Put me in the "yay, lethality" crowd.

This is a setting where a poor choice of words can lead to your character being ordered to carve their guts out,and refusal to get on with said gut-carving is regarded as worse than death. A sword fight should be a dangerous affair, where death or maiming are very real possibilities.

Everyone in Rokugan is walking on eggshells, whatever bluster they may make about not fearing death. And that's something I like about it.

There's ways to have that feeling without making the combat system "go first or die".

There's ways to have that feeling without making the combat system "go first or die".

My experience and yours have evidently been quite different.

I've had some downright killy guys who didn't go first... ever.

Kinzen - please, look at it with eyes of beginners. Become a child once more as a novelist and RPG veteran in general, your perspective is kinda biased and I think that you may have certain experience with world building and invoking universal motifs .

I'm flattered. <g> But I don't know that L5R is ever going to be an appropriate "gateway drug" for people who are novices to RPGs -- it's just not that kind of game. Going by the experience of the two friends I introduced to L5R, as well as my husband, it works just fine for people who are at least somewhat experienced with the whole RPG thing. The mechanics seem to be a far bigger hurdle than the timeline-neutral approach to the setting.

I don't understand all this "Lethality" problem. The 4th edition already offers ways to work around with the lethality. I don't have the book right now, but there's a side-page that state if you want less lethality game, just give more wounds per wound rank. (Earth x 3, Earth x 4, etc.) It's already in the corebook. I personally like the fact that player have to be sure before going into a fight, so I like the way the current lethality. They also have to prepare themselves with tactics, make sure it's not a trap and work with the setting by asking some Ashigaru to help them. I feel that brings a lot to a game.

I will admit that I'll join up with what Bayushi Karyudo said: "We don't say players -will- die if they do X... we say they -may- die." I don't like to kill my players, in fact, I never killed one yet, but a lot of them were very close to die and they like it that way. Of course, if they decide to do something really stupid, I'll give them a warning, if they still decide to do it, it's their fault. Also, if a player knows that he will not die because this option isn't there, he will just go in every fight knowing there will have no consequences.

In the end, I prefer people to add some custom ruling than "removing ruling". What I mean by this is, nothing stops a storyteller to do like WHW said with the current rule: "Your character isn't dead, he lost and got captured.", but I feel like the otherway around will be less appreciated. I said it a couple of time, I like to apply my own stuffs in the game I'm storytelling, but I don't remove the rules from the corebook because that brings confusion from the player. For example, for combat, I use maps and miniatures. I decided that each squares are 5 feets and knowing there is a few spells/techniques that aren't 5 based, I house-ruled them to round them up to 5 feets. My players know it and they like the whole system because it's a lot more visual. In the end, it's something my group like but some other group may not like. Should it be core? I don't think so, because some group may not like this, but as an optional rule/house rule, it's very nice.

I said it in the R&K discussion, there is no perfect system, but nothing stops a storyteller to adapt the system in a way that the group really like it. The best way to do this? Bring the points that you feel flawed and discuss them with your group to find an adaptation to remove that flaw. The game is too lethal? How about playing with more wounds per rank just like the optional rule in the corebook suggest. Feel bad at social rolls being "mind controling"? How about building a result table where you have "Fail but...", "Success but...", etc. But these things should be discussed with the group, unless you know your players and will play and enjoy anything you're doing, in that case, just do it but present it to prevent any surprises.

Edit:

We should be lucky. Unlike video games RPG, if a rule is really hated by everyone, we can house-rule it. In the video game, you cannot do anything about it but playing with it.

Kinzen - please, look at it with eyes of beginners. Become a child once more as a novelist and RPG veteran in general, your perspective is kinda biased and I think that you may have certain experience with world building and invoking universal motifs .

I'm flattered. <g> But I don't know that L5R is ever going to be an appropriate "gateway drug" for people who are novices to RPGs -- it's just not that kind of game. Going by the experience of the two friends I introduced to L5R, as well as my husband, it works just fine for people who are at least somewhat experienced with the whole RPG thing. The mechanics seem to be a far bigger hurdle than the timeline-neutral approach to the setting.

It's not the setting (despite some of my comments about the heavy-handed un-westernisms) that makes L5R 4e like wading into the thickest of bamboo forests.

Even after playing a wide array other RPG systems (multiple D&D, several oWoD, WEG d6 Star Wars, two editions of HERO, multiple custom systems I helped with, Deadlands for a bit, etc, so on, and so forth) it's the mechanics of L5R 4e that are dense and strange to parse.

Oddly enough, my experience is the exact opposite of yours and kinzen: I tried to get my current playgroup to play L5R, and the biggest complain was the fact that the setting was so alien, specifically the social interactions (and what is expected) between characters and NPCs. The whole "walking on eggshells" was a turn-off for them.

Ultimately, I think it goes down to individual preferences. It's a fool's errand to think we can make a setting and/or mechanics that please everyone (Greeks and Trojans and all that). Best we can do is define the target audience, and work for them.

I think my comments about killing PCs have been misinterpreted. I'm not saying that I just kill PCs. What I'm saying is that in a scenario where the PC is trying to save someone before he falls off a thousand-foot cliff, I have the PC make an appropriate roll. If they succeed, they save the person. If they fail, I will offer them a choice like, "you can still save him, but your going over the cliff and are going to die doing it." Or in combat I basically NEVER have an adversary kill a PC, instead if the PCs are defeated, the adversary will typically give them a choice "join us or die" or some other choice. It is never my decision to kill a PC it is always up to the player, and I will never blame the dice or let a bad result kill a PC. That's just not the style of game I want.

Oddly enough, my experience is the exact opposite of yours and kinzen: I tried to get my current playgroup to play L5R, and the biggest complain was the fact that the setting was so alien, specifically the social interactions (and what is expected) between characters and NPCs. The whole "walking on eggshells" was a turn-off for them.

That's entirely understandable. It isn't an issue of timeline neutrality, though: whether the book presents a broad overview of Rokugan at different points in history, or a specific "present day" with all the detail that brings along, you still have to walk on eggshells or meet Mr. Three-Foot Razor Blade. :-)

True.

Yes, you might have a small personal library of scrolls, but how many are you going to have on hand in a given moment?

Lots and lots. And more lots. And then some more lots. If my job requires either knowing the spells or having scrolls for the spells, then I should be expected to at all times to do that. I expect an Archer to have arrows (and a melee weapon or three). I expect a melee type to have a weapon that can hit more than 3-4 things before its a broken, badly designed club (and a second weapon, and a ranged weapon). Why wouldnt I expect the guy who can use scrolls to cast spells to have scrolls to cast spells? Hell, my l5r courtier carries multiple weapons (and regularly bisent-ects bandits, because being a courtier in most L5r settings is the equivalent of playing a Wizard in a Pathfinder game where you wont get to level 5 for the next 8 months) and this is someone that, unlike a shugenja, be nowhere near physical combat as often as possible.

I do also find spells per day/session to be one of the worst spell systems possible and results in horrifically designed magic systems.

Lots and lots. And more lots. And then some more lots. If my job requires either knowing the spells or having scrolls for the spells, then I should be expected to at all times to do that. I expect an Archer to have arrows (and a melee weapon or three). I expect a melee type to have a weapon that can hit more than 3-4 things before its a broken, badly designed club (and a second weapon, and a ranged weapon). Why wouldnt I expect the guy who can use scrolls to cast spells to have scrolls to cast spells? Hell, my l5r courtier carries multiple weapons (and regularly bisent-ects bandits, because being a courtier in most L5r settings is the equivalent of playing a Wizard in a Pathfinder game where you wont get to level 5 for the next 8 months) and this is someone that, unlike a shugenja, be nowhere near physical combat as often as possible.

I do also find spells per day/session to be one of the worst spell systems possible and results in horrifically designed magic systems.

Well, I've seen plenty of people play courtiers from Rank 1 to 5 (and beyond) and they never touched a weapon... It's all a matter of knowing to take advantage of a courtier's strengths.

Regarding the shugenja and your comparison to bushi... well, a shugenja can use the same scroll over and over again. By your own metric, he should make do with just 4-5 scrolls... as each of them is the equivalent of a "weapon". So if the bushi can make do with just a handful of them, so can the shugenja... Again, using your own metrics here.

Of course, if your bushi can create earthquakes, cause floods, summon storms, throw fireballs, among an endless number of other supernatural and massive effects, then... sure, you can argue that the shugenja should carry as many spell scrolls as he wants

So, I didn't read the other posts yet and am just answering to the opening post:

There have been several places of discussion (and argument) regarding the L5R RPG and what it should look like under the FFG release. It is presumed that there will be an FFG release, likely in 2018, due to certain comments made by the FFG official Twitter feed.

FFG has a history of certain successful, and not so successful, RPGs. It is unknown at this point if the Roll & Keep system that the L5R RPG has used since its inception will also be sold to FFG, but at this point? Let us not assume that it will be.

So, aside from the actual physical mechanic of the Roll & Keep system, what do you feel is iconic to the L5R RPG? What do you feel should be changed to make the RPG better? What do you feel should be kept?

Here is my list:

• The setting of Rokugan - This is a gimme and a base line, true, but it should still be said and examined. I want the RPG to focus on Rokugan, with the possibility of supplemental material on the Colonies, the Yobanjin, and the Burning Sands. The focus should remain on the Emerald Empire, however.
• Timeline Neutrality - This is a mixed bag of worms and centipedes, but a step I think 4th Edition took correctly. L5R RPG should present Rokugan in a defautl iconic state, with the inclusion and support for all the Great Clans, including Spider and Mantis. Just make sure that the Unicorn, Spider, and Mantis come with sidebars explaining their historicity and how they operate in the canon timeline.
• Courtiers, Bushi, and Shugenja, oh my! - The three strong archetypes in the L5R RPG should be the warrior bushi, the social courtier, and the spiritual shugenja. Even if you take out Monks or relegate them to an optional rule, these three archetypes should be the heart of the game.
• Honor, Glory, Status, Infamy - Characters should have all 4 of these, and they should not be inherently opposed. Glory should be positive reputation, Infamy negative reputation, and you should be able to be recognized for either. Honor should be a mechanic central to the game as well, as how a character interacts with Bushido is a key thematic element.
• The Balance of the Five Rings - However these wind up getting used, the Rings need to be woven into the system on both a thematic and a mechanical aspect. All fields of conflict should be influenced by each of the five Rings. Combat in 4th Edition is a good example of this. Air and Earth are your defensive Rings, Water and Fire are your offensive Rings, and Void is your utility Ring. Each Ring has an associated Stance, each Ring impacts a different part of combat, and each Ring (save Void) is tied to a key Attribute for combat effectiveness.
• Schools & Techniques - While I feel that Insight is a bit of an outdated mechanic, reflecting the linear progression of its time, the idea of Techniques as closely held secrets of the Clans should remain. A Doji Courtier should feel and play different than a Bayushi Courtier. A Mirumoto Bushi should fight differently than a Hida Bushi. An Isawa Shugenja should approach magic from a different angle than an Iuchi Shugenja. Schools and Techniques were an effective ways of representing this.
• Spells - Remove Mastery Level. Return to the flat Difficulty (TN) of the 1st Edition, based on the effects of the spell. Mastery Level ties the spell too much to a sense of leveling, and is very inconsistent in its power steps. Instead, allow shugenja to learn a spell through use of a scroll, and let them try to master more powerful or rarer spells by either discovering them on their own through communing with the kami, being taught by a sensei, or uncovering magical secrets.
• Keep Mass Battle - The Mass Battle rules of L5R are some of the best at representing large scale conflicts and allowing the PCs to feel like they are part of it. Allow room for the development of an army system, like how the Way of the Daimyo tried to, but the Mass Battle Table is one of best preserved items from 1st Edition. If anything? Make it more accessible to PCs by rewarding risky behavior.
• Add Courtly Intrigue - L5R RPG is sorely lacking in clarification in exactly how Social skills work. Is Courtier mind-control? Does a character nailing that Sincerity check make you believe he is telling the truth, or merely that he THINKS he is telling the truth? How does a master of a courtly delegation get anything done when all her subordinates are useless? L5R RPG needs a solid Courtly Intrigue system wired into it from the bottom up.
• Big System, Little System - Just like Mass Battle & Skirmishes, there needs to be a way of addressing scale in L5R RPG. Have a Social Combat system? You also need a Mass Court system. Have a spell casting system? You also need a Ritual system where a bunch of shugenja work together.
• The Core Pillars of L5R - L5R RPG needs to maintain its focus on the three (or four) core pillars of what makes the game awesome: action-adventure, courtly intrigue, and supernatural fantasy. L5R RPG is not a game about exploration and survival, collecting loot and leveling your character, immortals and power games. L5R RPG is a game where samurai in a magical world struggle to live by an impossible, contradictory code while never being more than a sword's swing from death. As a game, L5R RPG has been able to handle hardcore horror, fascinating investigation, and many other styles of games. However, at its very core, it needs to support the action-adventure, courtly intrigue, and supernatural fantasy.
• Lethality!!! - L5R RPG needs to remain one of the deadliest RPGs in the world, but one where death is taken very seriously. Death is central to the samurai narrative, and like a good Western, no one should ever be comfortably free of the threat of a drawn weapon.

So, those are my thoughts for now. I would love to hear your thoughts, or your replies to mine. Anything is welcome, and as a request, please steer clear of the R&K vs. Star War Dice debate appearing everywhere else.

The setting of Rokugan : I totally agree with you!
Timeline Neutrality: I'm with you here too, but you forgot the Scorpion. They were exiled for a few years after the Scorpion Clan Coup, should be mentioned in a sidebox too.

Courtier, Bushi and Shugenja: I would make the Shinsei-Monks an optional thing, since they are sort of difficult to play. But for the Togashi-Monks, the Kuni-Withchunters and the Asako-Henshin: They could be part of the Corerules. At least the Togashi.

Honor, Infamy, Glory, Status: Well, I handle it in a way where one can have both Glory and Infamy at the same time, so I totally agree with you on that point. I would appreciate a mechanic to bring those four stats more into the game and make them more important. Something like high Status gives you a bonus on Social Skills against Samurai of lower Status. Glory and Infamy might have an impact on social interaction too, something like a free raise or an enforced raise. And I really love the Honor-Roll, but still it bothers me that it is practically useless for most Scorpion-Samurai and the like.

Balance of the five Rings: I have nothing to add here.

Schools & Techniques: Well, I don't feel like it is an outdated mechanic. But I still agree with you that there have to be differences between the various Clans Bushi, Courtier, Shugenja and so on.

Spells: Since I started to play with the 4th Edition I can't say if I'd like it better with Mastery or with TN-Machanics, but it reads interesting. It may enforce the importance of the Spellcasting-Skill with it's importune and spellresearch emphases and that is something which I would like to see. It would also encourage the search for a spell to be the topic of an adventure.

Keep Mass Battle: Yes, deffinitly. I didn't really get to use it up until now. But I like the way the mechanics are designed. I'd live to see heroic and unheroic opportunities in teh corebook and I'd prefer them to be listed in themed tables, since it would be more overseeable and that way the GM could find a fitting opportunity faster.

Add courtly Intrigue: Yeah...it would be helpfull to have some clarifications on the social interactions. Like a guideline on how to reward players for acting their speech out, or what my happen if my Sincerity / Deceit-Roll is higher than the others Investigation roll and how it influences further social interactions. But up until now it worked out well the way I handle it as a GM.
Big System, Little System: Yep, like this idea. Especially regarding Perform: Oratory.

The Core Pillars of L5R: Again, I'm totally with you!

Lethality: Hell, YES!!! I'd be rather disappointed if that were to change! Still, I like the optional Earth*X for less lethality for other playstyles.

The things I miss:

Artisans:

Yes, there are the Kakita of course. And the Shiba, Tsi and the Kaiu, well the Kaiu are half Artisans. But, there were the 1000 years of peace, and L5R wants me to believe that there was no cultural and artistic flourish during this era? Really? I don't think so.

I'd like to see Artisans for the Unicorn and their Gaijin-Rokugan-Mixed ways and maybe the Mantis and the Ikoma and the Miya should get an artistic Alternate Path too.

And since the Shosuro Actors are the greatest rivals for the Kakita Artisans I really miss an artistic Alternate Path and an Advanced School which enforces their Artisan and Perform Skills.

I also would love to see something more artistic for the Kaiu, since they are described as Engineers and Architects who also happen to love to build toys and boxes with complex opening mechanics.

Poison and Medicine:

When I think about the Shosuro Garden and the few poisons mentioned in the corebook, something feels amiss. The same goes for the description of the Medicine Skill and its emphases. I miss at least a handfull of herbs for making antitoxins and balms/ potions for supporting your healing. I don't want a healing potion like in other RPGs, just a possibility to mix something which pushes your selfhealing for a short time after talking the remedy. IMHO the Medicine skill is pretty weak and if your group would happen to have no Shugenja or a Shugenja without the "Path to inner peace"-Spell the group may happen to die faster than you want. And I would love to see some more poisons.

But these things are optional to me.

Resources:

I don't mean additional Books or stuff like this. I mean a quick overfew on materials on can work with. Stuff like special woods, fruits, fish, vegetables. I don't need and don't want a book which is full of information about which Clans harvest rice in what way or how pickeled vegetables are made. I just wished that in the Emerald Empire where they talked about special foods in the various Clans, that they also mentioned some special ingredients. Like Crane have lots of rice and the Unicorn have buckwheat or something like this. One may wonder why I mention something "unimportant" like this. But I love to describe the meal the PCs get, when they are invited somewhere.

Re: Monks (& Shugenja)

I would also like to see the inclusion of the Togashi Tattooed Man in the base rules, along with the Spider Clan Sohei. However, the Asako Henshin, the Kuni Witch-Hunter, the Kokujin Tattooed Man, and the Brotherhood Monk? I would not put those in the Core Rules. They are, simply, not iconic enough.

What I would like to see, though? Is a means to bring the monks and the shugenja into alignment with one another. Have each be a means by which players can interact with the Supernatural / Spiritual / Fantasy elements of the L5R game. If anything, make the Monk classes function like a shugenja who are more focused on internal effects and less on external effects. I am not sure how I would do this, but there should be a method.

Re: Artisans (& Courtiers)

Artisan schools should really be rolled into the Courtier archetype entirely. Have being an Artisan simply be a type of Courtier.

Splatbooks:

Actually, the "Three Pillars" approach to L5R RPG lends itself to this extremely well. Give a Core Book, a Setting Book (Emerald Empire, GM's Survival Guide), a book on Action / War (Bushi schools / techniques, deeper examination of Mass Battle, running a "War" campaign), a book on Intrigue / Court (Coutier schools / techniques, deeper examination of a Courtly Conflict system, running a "Court" campaign), and a book on Supernatural / Fantasy (Shugenja and Monks, deeper examination of the Spirit Realms and Fantasy Elements, running a "Horror" campaign). Or, if you prefer, a supernatural investigation campaign, but personally? I always found L5R RPG to be a very solid horror game, and I would love to see that brought back to the forefront in whatever comes next.

Splatbooks:

Actually, the "Three Pillars" approach to L5R RPG lends itself to this extremely well. Give a Core Book, a Setting Book (Emerald Empire, GM's Survival Guide), a book on Action / War (Bushi schools / techniques, deeper examination of Mass Battle, running a "War" campaign), a book on Intrigue / Court (Coutier schools / techniques, deeper examination of a Courtly Conflict system, running a "Court" campaign), and a book on Supernatural / Fantasy (Shugenja and Monks, deeper examination of the Spirit Realms and Fantasy Elements, running a "Horror" campaign). Or, if you prefer, a supernatural investigation campaign, but personally? I always found L5R RPG to be a very solid horror game, and I would love to see that brought back to the forefront in whatever comes next.

By "Core Book and a Setting Book", do you mean one book for rules, systems and mechanics in corebook and another one for the setting? Because I really hate this approch it feels like heavy to start a game just to try the game in the basic. Otherwise, I agree with the reste, seems interesting. I would also like some smaller supplements like for the different Era which includes the Clan's differences.

The Setting Book would be a combination of the Great Clans and Emerald Empire from 4th Edition, or the GM's Survival Guide in 1st Edition. The Core Book should be all you need to run an L5R Campaign. The Setting Book, however, gives you a far greater depth of the world of Rokugan, including the customs of the Great Clans, how the caste system works, what people eat where, etc. While the Core Book gives you all you need for the game, the Setting book gives you all you want for the world.

Does that make more sense?

Regarding the smaller books for different "eras" of history, I personally think the Imperial Histories were one of the best approaches for this. Unfortunately, like the Atlas, they have already been done and re-releasing them will literally add nothing to the game and just cost the publisher more.

Depending on the level of interactivity in the storyline, a robust "In Store Play" program for the RPG might also be good to sell books, though I think the future of "modules as RPG products" stray closer to the massive demi-campaigns that we are currently seeing in D&D and Pathfinder.

The Setting Book would be a combination of the Great Clans and Emerald Empire from 4th Edition, or the GM's Survival Guide in 1st Edition. The Core Book should be all you need to run an L5R Campaign. The Setting Book, however, gives you a far greater depth of the world of Rokugan, including the customs of the Great Clans, how the caste system works, what people eat where, etc. While the Core Book gives you all you need for the game, the Setting book gives you all you want for the world.

Does that make more sense?

Regarding the smaller books for different "eras" of history, I personally think the Imperial Histories were one of the best approaches for this. Unfortunately, like the Atlas, they have already been done and re-releasing them will literally add nothing to the game and just cost the publisher more.

Depending on the level of interactivity in the storyline, a robust "In Store Play" program for the RPG might also be good to sell books, though I think the future of "modules as RPG products" stray closer to the massive demi-campaigns that we are currently seeing in D&D and Pathfinder.

I think that make sense, as long as the corebook includes the overall setting, just like the 4th edition corebook. Sometime, you don't have to go very deep but enough to have the concept of what you're doing as a player and as a storyteller.

I have to agree that re-releasing "Imperial Histories" may add nothing more to the game. I haven't thought about them and I even have them.

Re: Monks (& Shugenja)

I would also like to see the inclusion of the Togashi Tattooed Man in the base rules, along with the Spider Clan Sohei. However, the Asako Henshin, the Kuni Witch-Hunter, the Kokujin Tattooed Man, and the Brotherhood Monk? I would not put those in the Core Rules. They are, simply, not iconic enough.

What I would like to see, though? Is a means to bring the monks and the shugenja into alignment with one another. Have each be a means by which players can interact with the Supernatural / Spiritual / Fantasy elements of the L5R game. If anything, make the Monk classes function like a shugenja who are more focused on internal effects and less on external effects. I am not sure how I would do this, but there should be a method.

Re: Artisans (& Courtiers)

Artisan schools should really be rolled into the Courtier archetype entirely. Have being an Artisan simply be a type of Courtier.

Splatbooks:

Actually, the "Three Pillars" approach to L5R RPG lends itself to this extremely well. Give a Core Book, a Setting Book (Emerald Empire, GM's Survival Guide), a book on Action / War (Bushi schools / techniques, deeper examination of Mass Battle, running a "War" campaign), a book on Intrigue / Court (Coutier schools / techniques, deeper examination of a Courtly Conflict system, running a "Court" campaign), and a book on Supernatural / Fantasy (Shugenja and Monks, deeper examination of the Spirit Realms and Fantasy Elements, running a "Horror" campaign). Or, if you prefer, a supernatural investigation campaign, but personally? I always found L5R RPG to be a very solid horror game, and I would love to see that brought back to the forefront in whatever comes next.

That goes right in my heart...PLEASE DON'T make the Artisans Courtiers. Make them an optional "class" but don't mix them with Courtiers. They play completely different! I'm playing my Shosuro Actress (which is supposed to be a Ni... ) as an Artisan, because I want to play with the Shosuro Actor School vs Kakita Artisan School thing from all the fluff. Yes, she has Courtier and Etiquette. But all her Perform-Skills are far better.

And Artisans have a completly different purpose than Courtiers. Courtiers are diplomats, politicians who may be able to do some poetry or play an instrument to impress their host or opponents or whoever. Artisans are that and may be able to do some political bargaining, like "ok, I will decorate your palace for the next Winter Court so everyone will be impressed, but I will only do it if I get your child to marry me." . This are completly different things.

If I were going to have Artisans as a "character class" (ugh), then I'd say that they should remain seperate from Bushi, Courtiers, Priests, and Monks.

Of course, my preferred character mechanics wouldn't have "classes" at all.

I would put Artisans in a sub category of Courtiers. I guess the best way to think of it would be what aspect of Rokugan / L5R do you see the Artisan interacting with?

If we divide storytelling in L5R into the Three Pillars (again, my framework which is not without its flaws) of Action-Adventure, Courtly Intrigue, and Supernatural Fantasy, Artisans do not fit well into either the Action-Adventure or the Supernatural Fantasy pillar. They fit best into the Courtly Intrigue pillar. Stories wherein Artisans can shine are ones which emphasize social interaction over hitting people with sticks (even if the Artisan can make a better stick) or dealing with a Magical World (even if the Artisans can create nemuranai).

I see Artisan as more of a method of Courtly Intrigue than entirely its own thing. Yes, you are not a diplomat and social mover, but that is the world wherein your character would shine. You are not a Courtier, but you are living in the Courtiers' world and should be able to sparkle like the diamond you are.

Similar to how Ninja in my framework would fall under the Action-Adventure pillar, and thus be looked at as a type of Bushi who does not particularly do traditional bushi type things. Monks would fall under the Supernatural Fantasy pillar, though they are not shugenja.

I agree with sndwurks' approach. Ninja, artisans, and monks as unconventional approaches to the "three pillars" is a good way to encapsulate where they fit in -- always bearing in mind, of course, that the pillars are not straitjackets, that you can have an artisan who mostly makes weapons and armor or a Lying Darkness ninja who's more supernatural than action/adventure or a monk who's up to his eyeballs in courtly stuff. Or, for that matter, a courtier who's a master archer, a bushi specializing in fighting weird stuff, or a socially adept monk. It's a perspective on what the tags are designed for overall , not a set of firewalls between them.