On rebooting the lore of L5R, I feel that the most important part is making sure that it is internally consistent. For instance, some stories I have read seem to indicate that Rokugan is very large, while others (such as many of the stories of courtly intrigue) only make sense to me if Rokugan is small. Making it clear that Rokugan is the size it needs to be for a particular story might work, but some people might find it annoying. I don't have much history with the game, so I don't have any desire to reboot to the Clan Wars.

I would approve of a person's honour being controlled by the people around them, but this would be overly complicated if each player had to record how the clans see them. Perhaps the PCs could have a shared honour score that shows how the groups they have come into contact with view them, which would mostly be whether they like or dislike the PCs.

On the Reboot - that's why I think a reboot to something close to the Clan Wars is desirable. I really believe that the clans in the their current state are not reflective of their original intent. They've changed over time as a result of card mechanics and the outcome of tournaments, not because it is necessarily "appropriate" or "on theme" to have a story go in a particular way. While I think that having a meta-plot in a CCG is a cool idea, I don't know how faithful an RPG should be to that premise. I know there's a desire to see the two as "linked" and taking place in the same current universe - unless the RPG writers are constantly doing meta-plot updates simultaneous with the card game story-line that's a really difficult design philosophy to stick to. Though, to be fair, I have always been MUCH more a fan of the RPG than the card game which may explain my reluctance to embrace the change and also why I feel like I don't really lose anything if the story reverts. I don't have a relationship to it.

I'm not even saying it needs to go back to the "canonical" time of the clan wars - just to some time that a) is not dependent upon a deep understand of over 2 decades of CCG lore and b) presents the themes of the clan in a "pure" state such that they can easily be communicated to new players and will be recognized by players who maybe have been away for a little while but are coming back for the new edition and designers.

As for the honor discussion:

I actually think that this could be tied into the court mechanics somehow. As some people on these forums have stated, I agree with the idea that there should be a "micro" as well as a "macro" game for courtly politics. The way I ran my court games was always in "seasons" with each season taking place at a different court or at two geographically close courts. While it could mean extra book-keeping I think that the courtly exploits of the characters could be tracked at the level of these various courts. While there maybe dozens of possibilities I think that only a handful need to be fully detailed out by the designers - so long as some guidance is given on how to generate and track things like influence, glory, favors, and yes even perceptions of honor as to the character in that court.

Regardless though, I also think that there should be an individual component to honor as well - I just don't know what that should look like. Maybe bonus dice depending on your character acting in a way that emphasizes a Bushido virtue in which he is particularly strong? Free raises? If roll & keep is not maintained - this could be something else entirely.

On the Reboot - that's why I think a reboot to something close to the Clan Wars is desirable. I really believe that the clans in the their current state are not reflective of their original intent. They've changed over time as a result of card mechanics and the outcome of tournaments, not because it is necessarily "appropriate" or "on theme" to have a story go in a particular way. While I think that having a meta-plot in a CCG is a cool idea, I don't know how faithful an RPG should be to that premise. I know there's a desire to see the two as "linked" and taking place in the same current universe - unless the RPG writers are constantly doing meta-plot updates simultaneous with the card game story-line that's a really difficult design philosophy to stick to.

You're right to point out that the clans have shifted from their original state as portrayed in the Clan Wars. But I'd argue that this is a good thing, to a degree. Part of what makes the concept of an ongoing, player-driven storyline interesting is how it can show how time marches on. In our real world, what was true of, say, Germany a century ago, has informed but is not indicative of what that nation represents today. Because L5R is a setting steeped in tradition, it's rare to see changes that will drastically alter the landscape of a clan's values and beliefs, but keeping everything totally static and timeless negates the longterm value of offering fans the opportunity to shake things up. Where I do think there is a problem is in how CCG tournaments had the greater influence on the story versus the RPG, by a wide margin. An RPG, moreso than a card game, derives the lion's share of its profit from a playerbase that is interested in the story and setting upon which it is designed. And I believe that allowing RPG players to shape that story and setting to a measure comparable to the LCG's players, would benefit the license as a whole.

On the Reboot - that's why I think a reboot to something close to the Clan Wars is desirable. I really believe that the clans in the their current state are not reflective of their original intent. They've changed over time as a result of card mechanics and the outcome of tournaments, not because it is necessarily "appropriate" or "on theme" to have a story go in a particular way. While I think that having a meta-plot in a CCG is a cool idea, I don't know how faithful an RPG should be to that premise. I know there's a desire to see the two as "linked" and taking place in the same current universe - unless the RPG writers are constantly doing meta-plot updates simultaneous with the card game story-line that's a really difficult design philosophy to stick to.

You're right to point out that the clans have shifted from their original state as portrayed in the Clan Wars. But I'd argue that this is a good thing, to a degree. Part of what makes the concept of an ongoing, player-driven storyline interesting is how it can show how time marches on. In our real world, what was true of, say, Germany a century ago, has informed but is not indicative of what that nation represents today. Because L5R is a setting steeped in tradition, it's rare to see changes that will drastically alter the landscape of a clan's values and beliefs, but keeping everything totally static and timeless negates the longterm value of offering fans the opportunity to shake things up. Where I do think there is a problem is in how CCG tournaments had the greater influence on the story versus the RPG, by a wide margin. An RPG, moreso than a card game, derives the lion's share of its profit from a playerbase that is interested in the story and setting upon which it is designed. And I believe that allowing RPG players to shape that story and setting to a measure comparable to the LCG's players, would benefit the license as a whole.

I do agree that this CAN be a good thing. I don't argue that the clans should retain their clan war flavor because things should be timeless. I argue simply that you should be able to communicate the themes and essence of a clan without engaging in a ton of discussion about lore. Pointing to any point in time really could do the trick, though, some time frames are more simple than others to understand. Clan war is, in my opinion, the natural place to look to because that is where the clans were defined in the first place. Trying to use the four winds, or wrath of the khan era would be much more difficult - because these eras are dependent upon a whole host of events having happened first. Heck just look at how often the Yasuki have changed hands, or the Agasha, or the minor clans that have been absorbed into the Mantis. I mean these are hugely complex events to describe on the geopolitical stage of Rokugan.

The example I can easily think of is really the Mantis - I had a game where someone wanted to play a Wasp clan archer. Great. So if I play in the current era I have to talk about how the Wasp were once independent and did not have great clan status, then they entered an informal association, then they were fully absorbed, then the clan that did the absorbing maybe broke apart, and now they may or may not be back together again.

The reason the above matters is because the player wants to be able to orient his character in the world vis-a-vis the NPCs and the other PCs. NPCs and PCs are going to have a very complex opinion of this character, and the player should be able to understand what that opinion is likely to be in broad strokes (obviously leaving room for individual prejudice etc.) so that he can portray that character in a way that makes sense. He also, as it turns out, did a whole bunch of reading in the first edition materials, but the game was set during the four winds era. So yeah, basically he did something good (reading lore) because he was interested in it, but because of the historical setting I had to be like, while most of what you've read is true, some of it maybe didn't happen that way and all of it is out of date. Awful thing. Granted I didn't tell him that there were some supplements that had been written before the date of the current game, but still.

The current world is just not all that accessible - especially if you're returning to the game after a hiatus or you never really played the CCG.

With regard to RPG players being able to help change the world - I totally agree that this is fun. I think the place for this however is in independent or semi-associated living campaigns rather than trying to do this in formalized way like the CCG has done. The way that Pathfinder Society or the old living D&D campaign did this I think was probably the right approach. E.g. Make the core product a toolbox with simple and accessible concepts. Support the game with lore, but don't make knowledge of the deep lore a requisite to being able to truthfully portray the character. The world of Rokugan and the strictures of Bushido etc. are complex enough already.

I guess what I'd like to see is not a Rokugan "any way" but a Rokugan "two ways." One, the information in the core rules and supplements that establishes a "pure" version of the game. Personally, I would love it if it went back to clan wars because I think that this presented the clans in their most essential and easiest to communicate to new players way. But again, any time period, even a full blown BSG style re-imagining would do it for me so long as it's easy to grasp for new players. You can go deep into the histories and what not the way 1st ed did, but don't make it required.

The second way could be a semi-associated living campaign. This game, with support of FFG, would attempt to track the current story line of the LCG - and would give players who choose to participate in the living campaign and want to/have the time to dive deep into the lore and stay current on the LCG happenings the ability to do so. This would also be an easy way to give RPG players the ability to help influence the meta.

On rebooting the lore of L5R, I feel that the most important part is making sure that it is internally consistent. For instance, some stories I have read seem to indicate that Rokugan is very large, while others (such as many of the stories of courtly intrigue) only make sense to me if Rokugan is small. Making it clear that Rokugan is the size it needs to be for a particular story might work, but some people might find it annoying. I don't have much history with the game, so I don't have any desire to reboot to the Clan Wars.

That's one of my giant pet peeves when it comes to writing, whether it's fiction or a game setting or whatever -- treating settings and/or characters as mutable contrivances that can be whatever the writer wants them to be, in order to tell THE STORY that the writer wants to tell. Character can be shrewd in one story, and foolish in the next... cynical in one, and gullible in another... combat-competent in one moment, and helpless in another. In something like the L5R RPG, that's handled by many writers and subject to having its chain yanked by the CCG event results, it gets even worse.

The world of L5R has at least 6 different "origin myths" if you include the LBS materials, all mutually incompatible, and there are more incompatible details if you keep digging. They're all pretty much presented as objectively factual. The presentation of the setting kinda veers vaguely between 3rd person objective, 3rd person subjective, and almost 1st person subjective, without ever really being clear what is fact and what is perception.

Sometimes all magic but that obtained via communing with the kami is evil, and sometimes there's all this other magic that's just a matter of perspective.

Sometimes Rokugan is big, and sometimes it's small.

Sometimes L5R is "Kurosawa with spirits", and sometimes it's "samurai wuxia!"

If there's a reboot, I'd love to see some hard decisions made about what Rokugan is, and what Rokugan is not.

While there maybe dozens of possibilities I think that only a handful need to be fully detailed out by the designers - so long as some guidance is given on how to generate and track things like influence, glory, favors, and yes even perceptions of honor as to the character in that court.

Supposedly, you have Advantages/Disadvantages (Allies, Blackmail(ed), Obligation, etc.), and the Glory/Infamy mechanic to represent all these. Problem is, the rules handle these rather poorly, and are kinda confused about their interactions (like, how some Honor losses should be in fact Infamy gains).

In 32 pages of discussion, the ''how it should be rebooted'' question keeps surfacing. I already mentionned it here, but if you are interested in a reboot, you can check the Tomorrow's Prophets fan project.

Basically, Tomorrow (the nezumi's nemesis) comes back and eat reality backward, up to days before the Scorpion Clan Coup. Some people from the erased timeline were saved and end up changing some key decisions taken in these few days that will change the future of Rokugan.

Details here: https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/197673-tomorrows-prophets-a-creative-project-for-the-community/