Disclaimer and TLDR: I realize this may be similar to some other threads from the past, but most the other threads seem to be gms wondering what to do about autofire monsters: I'm a player wondering if it's too powerful to use (so as to not step on the feet of the other players). How does it compare to other powerful combat combos? Is there an effective nerf that keeps it worthwhile to use?

I'm going to get the opportunity to play one of the FFG RPGs again soon. I don't know for sure yet which of the three systems will be the primary core for the game, or what the theme will be yet (that will be decided tonight, at our session 0), but the characters I've gone for in the past, if taking on a combat role, have been the sort that wear heavy armor and use a heavy blaster rifle with autofire.

I don't doubt the effectiveness of autofire, as I've seen it first-hand, but what my question is, is whether it is too effective. There are two reasons I'm worried. I don't want to overwhelm the guy running the game, as I believe he's new to GMing. I also think we're going to be doing a module to start, which I understand most are pretty easy to begin with, and he may not be comfortable adjusting it. More importantly though, I don't want to dominate combats so much so that other players feel worthless. A guy I played with in a previous game remarked to me "Please no autofire this time." I can't be sure whether he was serious, joking, or half-joking (I'm not the best at reading people, which is half the reason for this thread. If I was better at that I would probably have enough information from the last game I played.)

Part of this is I've seen how effective a marauder with a monomolecular edge can be. You could argue he's worse than autofire against a single target.[small aside: is it still understood to be that each crit kills a minion?] It seems a lightsaber or FaD Basic lightsaber that was modded would be the same way. I also know the theoretical power of high brawn character with ranks in brawl and medicine using pressure point, though I've no experience with it personally. So one thing I'm wondering is this: is autofire really worse than these other things?

Lastly: is there are simple nerf to autofire that would make it a little less insane, but still worthwhile? Perhaps making it cost 3 advantages instead of 2? In the past I self-imposed a nerf that jury-rigged could only be used once per check (so that it wasn't just one advantage per activation, except the first), but I still usually managed, after the game had been rolling a bit, to activate twice.

I use a house-rule from these forums. Total hits possible from an unmounted autofire weapon = to Brawn. Works perfect for my tastes.

No, it's not unbalanced compared to the higher XP abilities present in other specs. The difference is it's amazingly useful, extremely versatile, and available to everyone.

While the Jury Rig fix you suggested can mitigate it somewhat, upping the requirement to 3 adv would significantly alter the balance.

That said, it's really rather easy to balance for the GM. Use stacked defense, minion groups, minion armor for Nemesis' and close quarters to cut down on it. Additionally, the mono-molecular edge and lightsaber are perfect for destroying autofire weapons (or at least damaging them).

If you're the player, though, it's your choice as to whether you use autofire or not. There are certainly times when it's warranted, but it's more in your hands as to whether or not you want to overemphasize it to the point of it being unbalancing. This is where I tend to act last in initiative order. That way the rest of the party gets to do stuff and contribute and I'll re-assess at the end of the round.

definitely broken. autofire raw is a joke.

there are a few different house-rules floating around. personally i simply don't allow jury rigged to be used with autofire AND every potential hit beyond the first 2 is an additional upgrade to the combat check. i find it is still very powerful that way, but not gamebreaking.

I make it the base cost, but +1 Advantage for each extra hit. So even with Jury Rigged it's somewhat under control.

Edit: I find Linked worse for space combat, I've replaced it with Autofire.

Auto-Fire I run as written; it's not really that big of a deal unless the PCs are lugging around heavy weaponry, and that doesn't happed all that often in my campaign.

When it comes to the potentially devastating Auto-Fire plus Jury Rigged-combo, I picked the simplest solution I could think of. I took a minute before the game one evening, explained the combo to my players and how lethal it could be, and then told them straight up that as long as you don't do it first, I won't use it against you.

Because nothing communicates GM displeasure quite like 3-4 NPCs with 5 Agility, 4 Ranged (heavy) and jury-rigged light repeating blasters.

Hardly a problem really. In my game I make my NPC's engage the auto fire girl and force her into close combat.

I haven't seen it be an issue, especially when affected by the RP time of someone walking around with an auto-fire weapon. Not every spaceport, city or planet is going to be happy about someone being so heavily armed. And sometimes it is nice, as a player, to just rock-and-roll and watch the mooks fall in waves... makes one feel "powerful" even though a good sniper could just smoke the auto-fire "heavy" of the party and call it a day.

I used to think it autofire broken until my group's crit-focused droid started hitting things for instadeath crits. I believe he once reached a base crit of 170 on one foe due to tons of advantages with crits on 1, lethal blows, vicious, etc. Fights where he is involved take special consideration, though the campaign is balanced with social encounters, so it hasn't been too bad. The only nemesis so far that has gone toe-to-toe with him successfully has been Guri .

I used to think it autofire broken until my group's crit-focused droid started hitting things for instadeath crits. I believe he once reached a base crit of 170 on one foe due to tons of advantages with crits on 1, lethal blows, vicious, etc. Fights where he is involved take special consideration, though the campaign is balanced with social encounters, so it hasn't been too bad. The only nemesis so far that has gone toe-to-toe with him successfully has been Guri .

On that note, unless the attack actually deals damage, it can't trigger a crit. Lots of ranks of Parry combined with solid armor and brawn can do a good job of mitigating the super-crit.

On that note, unless the attack actually deals damage, it can't trigger a crit. Lots of ranks of Parry combined with solid armor and brawn can do a good job of mitigating the super-crit.

Haha, I am well-aware . I've made sure to let others know that very fact on these forums in the past. There have been times where just 1 or 2 damage got through .

My campaign has some people at 1000+ xp and others at 150+, and the group composition changes from week to week as we have 12 people who rotate into the weekly 6-PC sessions. It's a balancing act keeping foes challenging for some without wiping out the rest. Guri was one of those special cases where I didn't hold back at all in terms of balance for the team as a whole.

I don't want to take away too much from the main theme of this thread. It's just that there are other builds that have put autofire into perspective for me.

yes, there are a few builds that might be worse than autofire abuse, but most people will never actually see those, cause ffg star wars is no game for power gamers. if you do min/max the game can break quickly.

that crit-droid character would have no place at my table.

auto fire just happens to people, and therefore warrants special attention.

Intelligent encounter design solves these problems. Don't give a listen to the NPC deli episode and the list strikes back episodes of the Order 66 podcast.

that crit-droid character would have no place at my table.

I may have thought the same with someone able to do that right from the get go, but the campaign has been going weekly for over a year, so he's not the only one who has grown into a powerful combo. We're all still having tons of fun. As you and others in this thread have pointed out, it isn't too hard to tweak either the mechanics involved or encounter design to accommodate crit monsters and autofire PCs at the table. SWRPG's flexibility is one of its greatest strengths .

Yes but saying you're designing an encounter specifically to bypass a game feature you're essentially admitting it's a problem, and you're adjusting for it. I prefer a houserule that levels the field and allows features to be used without having to adjust scenario set up for one specific weapon effect.

that crit-droid character would have no place at my table.

I may have thought the same with someone able to do that right from the get go, but the campaign has been going weekly for over a year, so he's not the only one who has grown into a powerful combo. We're all still having tons of fun. As you and others in this thread have pointed out, it isn't too hard to tweak either the mechanics involved or encounter design to accommodate crit monsters and autofire PCs at the table. SWRPG's flexibility is one of its greatest strengths .

if it works for you - huzzah!

Since your the player asking this question you have already got the right attitude, well done!

In my experience of this game the Developers rely on Narative to balance some of the high powered Crunch (Force Powers, AutoFire, Lightsabers) I suggest you imagine the implications of carrying a fully automatic weapon around. There is a time and a place to bring out the big guns, but a bar fight or important negotiations is not it. Basically have more than 1 weapon, something on the hip to go places with, then "Big Bertha" for seizing an enemy base

Yes but there are auto fire pistols and carbines in the game, so it isn't like autofire is restricted to large weapons.

Yes but there are auto fire pistols and carbines in the game, so it isn't like autofire is restricted to large weapons.

Just as real weapons with Full-auto capability aren't all heavy SAW devices. You'd still get stopped by the police for carrying a MAC-10 around with you.

Yes but there are auto fire pistols and carbines in the game, so it isn't like autofire is restricted to large weapons.

Just as real weapons with Full-auto capability aren't all heavy SAW devices. You'd still get stopped by the police for carrying a MAC-10 around with you.

Not if they don't see it.

Yes but saying you're designing an encounter specifically to bypass a game feature you're essentially admitting it's a problem, and you're adjusting for it. I prefer a houserule that levels the field and allows features to be used without having to adjust scenario set up for one specific weapon effect.

Designing an encounter for the party isn't the same thing as designing to bypass a game feature. If you've got a lot of PCs that are designed for social skills, why would you design a combat encounter for them that included 5 minion groups of Stormtroopers with auto-fire weapons? Or if you had a group that was designed around space combat, why wouldn't you throw more fighters at them or other space challenges? That is just normal GMing. The problem with some things is the GM might not be familiar enough with the system to help work with or deal with some combos (PCs that are Crit monsters or major damage dealers to lots of targets).

In a D&D game I was in, myself and another player built up our characters to work off each other. The GM was running a stock module with only some slight changes. He was pissed when we managed to drop several very large, high damage, high health NPCs in just one round, before they could even get to us, because of that synergy (teamwork feat that allowed us to get a free attack at a target hit by the other person with the same feat, on two characters that did a decent amount of fixed bonus damage and high number of attack rolls). In fights with more, little targets, that synergy fell apart... So, to challenge us, he'd occasionally add more little minions.

Yes but there are auto fire pistols and carbines in the game, so it isn't like autofire is restricted to large weapons.

Just as real weapons with Full-auto capability aren't all heavy SAW devices. You'd still get stopped by the police for carrying a MAC-10 around with you.

Not if they don't see it.

Same thing with other weapons. Even if they don't see them... use them in a fight and SOMEONE is bound to tell the authorities what they saw/heard and if said weapon wasn't allowed... you'd bet your butt they'd come after you after the fact.

It's irrelevant. Whether a GM designs encounters to adjust for autofire weapons, has an out of game conversation with PCs about them, or adjusts how it works mechanically, it's all the same thing, an acknowledgement there is an issue and an effort to address it from different approaches.

I think the mechanics represent the significant increase in damage output of an automatic weapon vs a single action weapon that is seen in real world weapon types. Every persons reaction to this is going to be different.

So the list of question could be:

"is your vision of SW one where AutoFire weapons have a very high damage output or borderline insane damage?"

If "Very high" then modify the mechanics with a small house rule

If "Insane" then ask "do these weapons need to be restricted to use in specific situations or can anyone carry walking death anywhere?"

The answer will then govern how the Narative is built around these weapons, even effecting the theme of a campaign.

Both these questions need to be answered before a single pencil is put to paper on any characters, during session zero.

Even within a single group the theme of different campaigns could result in different answers and implementations. A GI Joe AoR campaign will likely restrict them a lot less than an AoR campaign of a planetary uprising and civilian rebellion.

I think there are lots of ways to generate massive damage output in this game. I can do it with a double lightsaber. I can do it with Niman. I could do it with a single lightsaber and Ataru. I can do it with pistols and the gunslinger. I can do it with rifles using autofire. Hell you can do it with any vehicle mounted weapon. I can do it with force lightning. I can do it with move.

Instead of worrying about overpowered characters. Plan for what they can do. Sometimes allow you players to be awesome and slaughter your opposition. Throw a bunch of guys they are just going to wipe the floor with. Players love being awesome. Let them be awesome. Sometimes challenge them by taking the what they can do and planning accordingly and make them work hard for their win. That is how you deal with this.