I love the game and think FFG has done a great job growing it over the years.

I also think the product line needs some pruning.

Patching old products with new products is working and should still be used as it helps keep my old collection current but it’s making the game way less approachable for new players.

Now if a player wants to fly a competitive Darth Vader they need to buy the tie advanced expansion and a $100 Raider. thats kind of terrible considering how important Darth Vader is to the license.

In addition to patching with new product I feel reprints could be used as an opportunity to refresh a ship’s included cards and give it a new paint job. so a refresh of the Tie advanced pack would swap out a few upgrades for the Title and few system cards.

New paint jobs are important because it would ease the transition period when both the “old” version and the refresh are in stock. If they have different paint jobs players will value them for their uniqueness. If the paint jobs were the same then old stock would be impossible to sell as people obviously want the one with the new cards.

Thats my pitch. Don't just Reprint, Refresh!

Wont happen! Old stock would become "unsellable," as people would want the new versions. FFG has a way of doing things that has been working and they'll continue doing it this way. IMHO!

New players in my area would be welcome to proxy cards.

In my non competitive group, we have access to every card in the game. Anyone wishing to play competitively sshould expect to pay a bit more.

Maybe it's just because I recently moved from 40k, but nothing in this game seems expensive to me.

Also, the options you get from the huge ships are only necessary for certain builds. There are many competitive builds that dont require them

FFG does revise the old expansions but not in the contents. The upgrade cards I have from purchases over the last few months have the FAQ text on them. Similarly the reference cards for cloak and boost have been updated to reflect the FAQ. That they do this means they do look back at the old releases. That they haven't changed the contents in that time (~2 years) means they are not going to change the expansion contents.

FFG is offering C-3PO as a store championship card for 2016. I think it likely they will continue to do this with those cards that are sourced from expensive expansions that not everyone either can or wants to buy. In this way they will encourage players to participate in leagues and tournaments and thereby expand the player base for the game. I know I will be stepping out to play in a store championship next year to get my hands on a 3PO as I don't have the Corvette and I am not likely to be able to afford it for a long time.

I don't think they need to pull a "Game of Thrones LCG" maneuver just yet. Besides many of us has already invested enough money into x-wing, and the upcoming $40 investment that is near mandatory is enough of a relaunch. It is not a good time to invalidate every pilot card just to make a 2nd edition.

That said, I'd really appreciate it if they'd release errata'd cards. The old stuff stays legal, but, eg, the Phantom's instruction sheet on how Cloaking works? Boy, it'd be nice for that to be correct, don't you think?

That said, I'd really appreciate it if they'd release errata'd cards. The old stuff stays legal, but, eg, the Phantom's instruction sheet on how Cloaking works? Boy, it'd be nice for that to be correct, don't you think?

FFG do release errata'd cards, but they need an expansion to package them in. That means we have to wait for a reprint, or something else to come out with the errata'd card.

For example, I'd bet money that the Mist Hunter will have an updated Cloak reference thanks to the Cloaking Device upgrade, and I'd bet more money that the next batch of Phantoms will have one, too.

Wont happen! Old stock would become "unsellable," as people would want the new versions. FFG has a way of doing things that has been working and they'll continue doing it this way. IMHO!

People either have the old stock, or they don't.

If they don't have it, then old or new makes no difference to them. They don't have either so both are as attractive as the other.

If the already have the old stock, then they either STILL want the old stock because they love that particular ship, want more of a particular upgrade, or only want the ship/pilots included in that stock (buying more TIE fighters to fill out your swarm for example). In which case having new stock available won't significantly impact the sales of the old stock.

Or, if they have the old stock already, the other options is that they DON'T want any more of that stock in which case they're not going to buy any more of those items ANYWAY. But they MIGHT buy some new stock if it was re-released with some new upgrades and a repaint.

Basically, think of them as single-ship aces packs!

I have to agree with the OP.

I have bought everything in order as it came out. To us it made sense that fixes for old ships came in later packs. We didn't know some ships were lacking until after months of playing with them. Specially the earlier ships. But then later packs supplemented previous ones.

However, to new players it feels really strange to be like this. Each expansion pack promises a ship with everything you need to add to your collection of X-Wing. Except it doesn't really deliver its promise if buying the TIE Advanced pack doesn't realistically give you a TIE Advanced with everything you need. The same happens with A-Wings or even TIE Interceptors. How many TIE Interceptors fly around without Push The Limit and Autothrusters? Neither of those upgrades come with the TIE Interceptor pack. Not even the Imperial aces pack comes with the Autothrusters.

A friend of mine that got started into the game lamented that if he wanted to have ONE great TIE Interceptor in his squadron he needed to buy the TIE Interceptor pack, the Imperial Aces, and then another ship from a faction he is not even remotely interested on. And he has a valid point.

I repeat, I think it felt kind of natural for all of us that started from the beginning and were buying one of each ship anyway as it came out. But newbies today find themselves overwhelmed by tens and tens of expansion packs on the shelves. They of course can proxy cards. But it doesn't feel right to have to fake game components especially compared to other board games.

I think they should make a "TIE Advanced Expansion Pack Second Edition", and the same with all other "fixed" ships, and after the original expansion packs have gone out of print and the stocks are depleting, replace the old pack with the new pack, with the "Second Edition" clearly shown on the front. Like that, both newbies and veterans would have a reason to buy the new pack, because it would bring something interesting for everyone.

Wont happen! Old stock would become "unsellable," as people would want the new versions. FFG has a way of doing things that has been working and they'll continue doing it this way. IMHO!

People either have the old stock, or they don't.

If they don't have it, then old or new makes no difference to them. They don't have either so both are as attractive as the other.

If the already have the old stock, then they either STILL want the old stock because they love that particular ship, want more of a particular upgrade, or only want the ship/pilots included in that stock (buying more TIE fighters to fill out your swarm for example). In which case having new stock available won't significantly impact the sales of the old stock.

Or, if they have the old stock already, the other options is that they DON'T want any more of that stock in which case they're not going to buy any more of those items ANYWAY. But they MIGHT buy some new stock if it was re-released with some new upgrades and a repaint.

Basically, think of them as single-ship aces packs!

Aces packs don't include the original pilots.

Want to fly Soontir fel's standard 35pt build? That takes Imperial Aces and a TIE Interceptor pack.

If only triple interceptors was a more interesting build.

That said, I'd really appreciate it if they'd release errata'd cards. The old stuff stays legal, but, eg, the Phantom's instruction sheet on how Cloaking works? Boy, it'd be nice for that to be correct, don't you think?

FFG do release errata'd cards, but they need an expansion to package them in. That means we have to wait for a reprint, or something else to come out with the errata'd card.

For example, I'd bet money that the Mist Hunter will have an updated Cloak reference thanks to the Cloaking Device upgrade, and I'd bet more money that the next batch of Phantoms will have one, too.

It would be really nice to have one card pack, containing the new damage deck and every rules card existing in the game, in its latest edition.

If only triple interceptors was a more interesting build.

Wont happen! Old stock would become "unsellable," as people would want the new versions. FFG has a way of doing things that has been working and they'll continue doing it this way. IMHO!

YUP... and the few things that are not to an individuals taste can be house ruled, so it is all good.

The only time there is an issue is when you force yourself to go to a turny where you do need to buy the stuff just to be legal and up to date with the meta-paper.

That is the one sour spot IMO... but since I do not go to turnies... FFG is doing just great!

The "problem" is when fixes for a ship are spread over multiple releases. The TIE Interceptor example above is a good one. To fly Soontir Fel, one of the most popular pilots in the game, you need to buy the TIE Interceptor expansion, Imperial Aces expansion and then the Starviper expansion.

For those of us who have been playing a long time, this is no issue. We have the cards we need already and are now just keeping up with new releases as they come out. But for a new player? It's an ever-increasing initial outlay. What we don't want is to reach GW standards of initial outlay and we're slowly creeping towards that, with one culprit being small ship fixes being bundled with huge ships.

Cue FFG fanboys posting chicken little images.

Wont happen! Old stock would become "unsellable," as people would want the new versions. FFG has a way of doing things that has been working and they'll continue doing it this way. IMHO!

YUP... and the few things that are not to an individuals taste can be house ruled, so it is all good.

The only time there is an issue is when you force yourself to go to a turny where you do need to buy the stuff just to be legal and up to date with the meta-paper.

That is the one sour spot IMO... but since I do not go to turnies... FFG is doing just great!

The current situation is the worst of both worlds: casual players don't need the cards at all, and tournament players would be better off if they were distributed differently among the ships (autothrusters, Advanced title, Push the Limit, etc.). As it is, there's hardly a customer for whom things are ideal.

New players can just proxy the upgrades while they learn there are plenty of sources for the cards and squad building software.

If you want to play competitively you have to accept the cost involves either buying expansions for cards or buying cards from 3rd party companies.

The "problem" is when fixes for a ship are spread over multiple releases. The TIE Interceptor example above is a good one. To fly Soontir Fel, one of the most popular pilots in the game, you need to buy the TIE Interceptor expansion, Imperial Aces expansion and then the Starviper expansion.

Those are two pretty ****ing big qualifiers you're blithely handwaving away.

Wont happen! Old stock would become "unsellable," as people would want the new versions. FFG has a way of doing things that has been working and they'll continue doing it this way. IMHO!

YUP... and the few things that are not to an individuals taste can be house ruled, so it is all good.

The only time there is an issue is when you force yourself to go to a turny where you do need to buy the stuff just to be legal and up to date with the meta-paper.

That is the one sour spot IMO... but since I do not go to turnies... FFG is doing just great!

I rarely go to tournaments either, so what do I need the upgrade cards for? A waste of money from my perspective.

The current situation is the worst of both worlds: casual players don't need the cards at all, and tournament players would be better off if they were distributed differently among the ships (autothrusters, Advanced title, Push the Limit, etc.). As it is, there's hardly a customer for whom things are ideal.

I buy everything because i am more about the cool toys and making RPG'ish battles.

I do not care if other people do not love this stuff.

I love it and that is just real-life.

What we don't want is to reach GW standards of initial outlay and we're slowly creeping towards that, with one culprit being small ship fixes being bundled with huge ships.

Not even close to being close. If a new player has played any other TTG previously, they would not flinch at the cost of X-wing. If they haven't, then they should compare the cost of others before getting too far in.

considering that huge ship is around the cost of a land raider......... I don't even have the words.

I do not care if other people do not love this stuff.

It's not that they don't love it, Boss. If I am recruiting new players to the game non-stop it isn't because I hate the game, mate.

The problem is that it is confusing to make someone new to the game understand that in order to fly one TIE Interceptor with the most usual loadout your need to buy 4 ships. (1 T/I from pack + 2 T/I from the Aces Pack + 1 StarViper). It becomes hard to explain why it is like that without the other party saying at some point "You must be kidding!".

New players can just proxy the upgrades while they learn there are plenty of sources for the cards and squad building software.

If you want to play competitively you have to accept the cost involves either buying expansions for cards or buying cards from 3rd party companies.

"Play competitive" is an unfairly broad term. It goes all the way from Paul Heaver rank to friendly local game store "My first try at tournament play ever" rank.

You are basically saying that if you don't leave your house and restrict yourself to play with the plastics space toys (even why not, making up your own upgrades and abilities) then you should be okay.

But I don't think most new players think on that when they go to a friendly game store and see people playing there in weekend mini tournaments, and that convinces them to pick up the core set and a couple of expansions.

They don't leave the store with the game under their arms, a smile in their faces, and thinking "Boy, I am going to lock myself in the basement and play with these plastic toys like if they were armymen until I wear out my carpet".

I do not care if other people do not love this stuff.

It's not that they don't love it, Boss. If I am recruiting new players to the game non-stop it isn't because I hate the game, mate.

The problem is that it is confusing to make someone new to the game understand that in order to fly one TIE Interceptor with the most usual loadout your need to buy 4 ships. (1 T/I from pack + 2 T/I from the Aces Pack + 1 StarViper). It becomes hard to explain why it is like that without the other party saying at some point "You must be kidding!".

Oh I know... not trying to be a dismissive jerk.

I would get them playing first with my stuff and if they want to buy their own goodies then you explain the way they need to buy their own stuff.

The "problem" is when fixes for a ship are spread over multiple releases. The TIE Interceptor example above is a good one. To fly Soontir Fel, one of the most popular pilots in the game, you need to buy the TIE Interceptor expansion, Imperial Aces expansion and then the Starviper expansion.

Except you don't. You need those expansions to fly the most popular meta build of Soontir Fel in an officially sanctioned tournament.

Those are two pretty ****ing big qualifiers you're blithely handwaving away.

I have to agree with Rodafowa here. I have every ship they've made so far- many many duplicates, and 3 core sets, four including the new one... and yet I can confidently say I've never built a popular competitive list of any kind. I just like playing with my little fleet.

I think FFG is doing it right. If anything I'd like to see them release "Wave 1, 2, 3, 4" Upgrade decks where you could pay 12 or 15 bucks and buy just a eck of all the upgrade cards from a given wave- and each deck contains at least one "fix" card or new pilot for each ship in that wave...

I do not care if other people do not love this stuff.

Said many times before, but a great solution for this would be the possibility of buying individual cards online. We've got got EBay already, but an official channel would be great...You know you'd buy much more than one card

I do not care if other people do not love this stuff.

It's not that they don't love it, Boss. If I am recruiting new players to the game non-stop it isn't because I hate the game, mate.

The problem is that it is confusing to make someone new to the game understand that in order to fly one TIE Interceptor with the most usual loadout your need to buy 4 ships. (1 T/I from pack + 2 T/I from the Aces Pack + 1 StarViper). It becomes hard to explain why it is like that without the other party saying at some point "You must be kidding!".

New players can just proxy the upgrades while they learn there are plenty of sources for the cards and squad building software.

If you want to play competitively you have to accept the cost involves either buying expansions for cards or buying cards from 3rd party companies.

"Play competitive" is an unfairly broad term. It goes all the way from Paul Heaver rank to friendly local game store "My first try at tournament play ever" rank.

You are basically saying that if you don't leave your house and restrict yourself to play with the plastics space toys (even why not, making up your own upgrades and abilities) then you should be okay.

But I don't think most new players think on that when they go to a friendly game store and see people playing there in weekend mini tournaments, and that convinces them to pick up the core set and a couple of expansions.

They don't leave the store with the game under their arms, a smile in their faces, and thinking "Boy, I am going to lock myself in the basement and play with these plastic toys like if they were armymen until I wear out my carpet".

If you play any game competitively you are committing to spending more than the casual players that applies to everything from heroclix to MtG your not after all going to rely on random packs to get what you need.

A new player does not need everything if they are just after a few games with friends, but if you plan on doing even local tournaments you just have to suck it up and accept the bigger outlay which also includes travel costs and lodging if your aiming for the top.

It's still cheaper than playing 40k competitively your easily looking at £500+ just to build one army.

And just an FYI we typically don't have basements in the UK.