Imperial Aces was a rather weak expansion ... [bunch of stuff].... finally got the chance to run my 5 squints with AT during a tournament

Ironically, 5 squints with AT is something that Imperial Aces is exactly zero help with. Have an Interceptor Expansion and two copies of Imperial Aces? Too bad, go buy 4 more Interceptors.

poor imp aces

well, in exchange for pilots that really should've had an ept (lorrir...kir...) we got a few pluses

Jax is really underrated

RGPs are slick

Royal Guard Tie really complements autothrusters; can't imagine running soonts or carnor without it (stealth and shield respectively)

Awesome paint schemes

oh well, at least FFG learned with the FOs. Epsilon Leader doesn't have an ept, which is sad because no shenanigans , but it at least doesn't need it

Remember, you're going to spend 25 points to do all this fancy hyper mobility stuff just to autodie to someone's Predator Gunner Rear Admiral Chiraneau. Shame, would be cool though. If you're flying the 79 point Soontir + Whisper build, putting PtL on him and calling it a day shouldn't be half bad. I'd rather have an AC Tempest or an Avenger Squadron with TIE MK II or Alpha with Autothrusters.

He's at what, PS 5? Complete waste of points. Either you get PS 8+ or forget about it.

I wouldn't consider him for the same reason I don't often consider A-Wings that cost more than 15 points. 2 attack dice ships are obsolete unless you can field 7-8 of them.

oh well, at least FFG learned with the FOs. Epsilon Leader doesn't have an ept, which is sad because no shenanigans , but it at least doesn't need it

He'd be crazy with PTL but I don't think he'd be broken. Give him a shield upgrade and he'd be a PS6 pre-fix Vader with a better dial and a great squad support ability for 26 points but he'd have both his EPT and mod slot spoken for. 26 points is coincidentally what the PS6 Advanced with a solid support ability and an EPT slot costs.

They very clearly didn't learn their lesson with Blue Ace. He's better off than Lorrir because his ability doesn't stress him but without the ability to take something like PTL or Predator, getting much use out of his ability is going to be rough. The only way I can see him getting much play is if he takes R7-T1 or the EPT droid but those really close off some options for him.

autodie

If that's what you're facing, maybe you knock off the fancy flying and turtle up instead? Or take offensive actions? If you're literally flying the same way no matter what you're facing, I have bad news for you about your future X-Wing career...

PS5 will dance around almost any generic, so no, don't "forget about it" if it's not PS8+. Seriously, way too much is made of the "PS bid" metagame. And a single 15-point A-Wing is just about the best blocker in the game, and surprisingly resilient for its meager investment.

Now please stop spreading negativity all over our nice forums. When you've recorded 15 batreps of you actually playing and enjoying X-Wing, you may resume posting.

You were one of those, "Phantoms aren't OP, you just have to get arcs on it" guys, weren't you?

My use of words like "autolose" comes from the pre-nerf Phantom days. Your opponent would be playing 2 Phantoms at 86 points and nothing else, and you'd have 2 Alpha Interceptors each with a Targeting Computer and 5 Academy Pilots. Your opponent would park one on an asteroid and you'd kill it, then you'd watch as one by one your ships would be dropping and you'd be /losing/ with 4 Academies and a TC Alpha.

I guess I'm just a realist. I do know a little more than the average person about World War One.

He's at what, PS 5? Complete waste of points. Either you get PS 8+ or forget about it.

I wouldn't consider him for the same reason I don't often consider A-Wings that cost more than 15 points. 2 attack dice ships are obsolete unless you can field 7-8 of them.

There are several builds out there that uses pilots with PS below 5

Also, Jake Farrel would like to have a talk with you about 2 attack dice ships being obsolete ;-)

Paragoomba: git. gud.

Paragoomba: git. gud.

No U!

PWT were never the only way to fight phantoms just the easiest, and that ease of use is why they hung around like a bad stench long after the phantom change.

butttttttttttt bringing it back to Zeta ace, I do agree with Goomba to a point

the existence of PWTs and turrets in general make hilarious but inefficient mobility (without thrusters) a very risky prospect to invest into, which is part of why I don't believe 25 point Zeta is really viable when you could just take 21 and be happy

I do not agree that any >15 cost 2-dice primary pilot isn't worth it. Zeta is a beast! He takes his time to kill stuff, sure, but he is incredibly difficult to pin down and a massive pain in the ass for your opponent to fly around. If your opponent ignores him, 3 fully modified red dice hurt. Ignore him at your peril!

Plus, he's 21 points; he's not priced to kill everyone. That's Redline's job

I've found my 21 point empire ship and it never misses no matter how bad I roll and always has a defensive action.

Long reign the AC advanced!

I can't see how adding 4 more points to ZAce is attractive. PTL already shuts off one of the coolest things an FO can do: 2sloop...ZAce is good because he can maneuver pretty dang well without the SLoop. Turning off the Sloop and kturns means that, unless you're very careful about your approach, you may be forfeiting a turn of attack; can't do that too often with a 21pt 2red ship and have it make points back.

I love ZAce... but he's either the most annoying thing since pre-nerf darkcurse+ stealth or he's an Academy Pilot I paid 175% to use. If I can get the former around 65% of the time I'm ok with that; if I get the latter I probably lost the battle.

I can't see how adding 4 more points to ZAce is attractive. PTL already shuts off one of the coolest things an FO can do: 2sloop...ZAce is good because he can maneuver pretty dang well without the SLoop. Turning off the Sloop and kturns means that, unless you're very careful about your approach, you may be forfeiting a turn of attack; can't do that too often with a 21pt 2red ship and have it make points back.

I love ZAce... but he's either the most annoying thing since pre-nerf darkcurse+ stealth or he's an Academy Pilot I paid 175% to use. If I can get the former around 65% of the time I'm ok with that; if I get the latter I probably lost the battle.

eh...

I'd rather see it as 2sloop shuts off one of the coolest things an FO can do: Zeta's 2-roll

in my limited experience (running a silly 5 FO swarm with Epsilon Leader) the 2 sloop isn't terribly significant (then again, fighting a PWT so mweh)

in my less limited experience, the stress off of PTL hasn't really hampered Zeta in any of his games because he can get some very silly positions with his roll. Then again, I run him with either Whisper or Redline so he often does more damage by blocking the enemy rather than actually shooting

I've found my 21 point empire ship and it never misses no matter how bad I roll and always has a defensive action.

Long reign the AC advanced!

if you block with Zeta, you don't even have to roll dice

but yes, bless FFG for Accuracy Corrector

I can't see how adding 4 more points to ZAce is attractive. PTL already shuts off one of the coolest things an FO can do: 2sloop...ZAce is good because he can maneuver pretty dang well without the SLoop. Turning off the Sloop and kturns means that, unless you're very careful about your approach, you may be forfeiting a turn of attack; can't do that too often with a 21pt 2red ship and have it make points back.

I love ZAce... but he's either the most annoying thing since pre-nerf darkcurse+ stealth or he's an Academy Pilot I paid 175% to use. If I can get the former around 65% of the time I'm ok with that; if I get the latter I probably lost the battle.

eh...

I'd rather see it as 2sloop shuts off one of the coolest things an FO can do: Zeta's 2-roll

in my limited experience (running a silly 5 FO swarm with Epsilon Leader) the 2 sloop isn't terribly significant (then again, fighting a PWT so mweh)

in my less limited experience, the stress off of PTL hasn't really hampered Zeta in any of his games because he can get some very silly positions with his roll. Then again, I run him with either Whisper or Redline so he often does more damage by blocking the enemy rather than actually shooting

That's a good way of looking at it too... just plan for it and it's all good but don't get caught too often or you won't be happy with your points as spent.

Imperial Aces was a rather weak expansion imho, to be honest. All we really got was PTL, for those among us that needed more than 2 (ok, the title is nice and essential for Soontir). The pilots aren't that great (Jax aside) and it lacked Autothruster (which really should have been in there ;-) ). I believe FFG didn't want to overshoot back then and was especially careful, which left us with a rather not so hot expansion. Kir Kanos lacks, as well as Lt Lorrir. The other dude (can't even remember the name) that may change the k-turn speed, well... never used that one, and I love to use my Interceptors (finally got the chance to run my 5 squints with AT during a tournament, and successful too). The Guards are ok.

I respectfully disagree, Imperial Aces was a very good expansion.

-Carnor Jax is a great pilot.

-Royal Guard Pilot is one of the best Generic there is.

-Tetran Cowall, while not great, can see some fight as the third wheel in an elite Interceptor team. I know some players used him during the Regionals. (I personally went with Fel/Turr/Jax, but I was close to switching Jax for Tetran to save some points)

-Royal Guard Tie title is close to be a must have when running an Elite Interceptor team, or just one as a flanker. It was not that great when it came out, but now with Autothrusters being an auto-include and more and more good mod coming out, the Royal Guard title is now a great way to boost the Interceptors and give them some versatility.

-Targetting Computer gives the Interceptor the boost they need if you want to turn them into a sniper. I know most prefer to run them with Autothrusters+Stealth Device, but for my part I prefer Autothrusters+Targetting Computer, especially on Soontir Fel with that ''third'' action.

-If you don't like green dice, Hull Upgrade is a very good substitute for Stealth Device that can save you from being one-shotted; I know it did for me a couple of time and allowed me to fight one more turn.

So, what is 'meh' in the Imperial Ace pack is Opportunist (still see some use from time to time on Palob or with Wes to strip the tokens) and sadly Lorrir and Kanos.

I think you mixed up "very good" with "gives you some cards you can use".

Jax is often looked past. Royal Guard title, while a good card, is probably kept the interceptor from getting any real help for a good long while and didn't really do much for competitive play until autothrusters came along (sure stealth+ other was playable but was never really more than "ok"), but really how many interceptors are you seeing outside of Fel + thrusters + stealth? About as many as you saw pre thrusters running Fel + stealth + second mod... And before Imperial aces it was just Fel+ mod of choice... Fel is good, most other interceptors still don't see the light of day. Kir is not the worst intercepts pilot only because Lorrir and Fel's wrath happen to be tethered to the same ship... Cowall, he gets to change the speed of a maneuver that no interceptor does in 85-95% of matches. Royal Guards were useable till the PS war just flat out laughed at their waste of points. Targeting computer? Again, where is the one place you see it? Fel. Notice a pattern there?

Imperial Aces was a nice try at a fix for a ship that is still today just holding on. Interceptors are still one of my favorite lists to fly because they are so rewarding. I've always felt they just never quite got the right fix. They are right there with the Firespray saying Look How Close I Am!

Sorry, that got ranty. Going to bed now. Clearly need to sleep. Perchance to dream... Of the glory of the Empire.

I think you mixed up "very good" with "gives you some cards you can use".

Jax is often looked past. Royal Guard title, while a good card, is probably kept the interceptor from getting any real help for a good long while and didn't really do much for competitive play until autothrusters came along (sure stealth+ other was playable but was never really more than "ok"), but really how many interceptors are you seeing outside of Fel + thrusters + stealth? About as many as you saw pre thrusters running Fel + stealth + second mod... And before Imperial aces it was just Fel+ mod of choice... Fel is good, most other interceptors still don't see the light of day. Kir is not the worst intercepts pilot only because Lorrir and Fel's wrath happen to be tethered to the same ship... Cowall, he gets to change the speed of a maneuver that no interceptor does in 85-95% of matches. Royal Guards were useable till the PS war just flat out laughed at their waste of points. Targeting computer? Again, where is the one place you see it? Fel. Notice a pattern there?

Imperial Aces was a nice try at a fix for a ship that is still today just holding on. Interceptors are still one of my favorite lists to fly because they are so rewarding. I've always felt they just never quite got the right fix. They are right there with the Firespray saying Look How Close I Am!

Sorry, that got ranty. Going to bed now. Clearly need to sleep. Perchance to dream... Of the glory of the Empire.

That is because the big ships absolutely destroyed the arc dodging aspect of the game with their turrets. Putting the "fix" of auto thrusters on the arc-dodgers was already crap, assigning the onus of the fix to also pay the points was lame to begin with. Large ships should have never been able to move faster than 2 speed maneuvers, then nimble ships like A-wings and Interceptors would still be unmatched in speed and breadth of maneuver dials.

I think you mixed up "very good" with "gives you some cards you can use".

Jax is often looked past. Royal Guard title, while a good card, is probably kept the interceptor from getting any real help for a good long while and didn't really do much for competitive play until autothrusters came along (sure stealth+ other was playable but was never really more than "ok"), but really how many interceptors are you seeing outside of Fel + thrusters + stealth? About as many as you saw pre thrusters running Fel + stealth + second mod... And before Imperial aces it was just Fel+ mod of choice... Fel is good, most other interceptors still don't see the light of day. Kir is not the worst intercepts pilot only because Lorrir and Fel's wrath happen to be tethered to the same ship... Cowall, he gets to change the speed of a maneuver that no interceptor does in 85-95% of matches. Royal Guards were useable till the PS war just flat out laughed at their waste of points. Targeting computer? Again, where is the one place you see it? Fel. Notice a pattern there?

No, I really find it very good.

I went to Regional and came 6th with:

-Soontir Fel+PtL+Title+Autothrusters+Targetting Computer

-Carnor Jax+Predator+Title+Autothrusters+Hull Upgrade

-Turr Phennir+Lonewolf+Title+Autothrusters+Stealth Device

Notice that from the Imperial Aces, I used 3 Royal Guard title, Targetting Computer, Hull Upgrade and Carnor Jax. Not too bad.

During one UK Regional, a guy finished first with Fel, Jax and a Royal Guard all with PtL, Autothrusters and Stealth Device. Again, 3 title, Jax and a Royal Guard from the Aces pack.

Autothrusters has been their biggest help, but it doesn't mean that the Ace pack was not good: it gave us more options and without the title, believe me that you would not see as many Fel as we are seeing today.

And why are we seeing only Fel? Not because the other Interceptor pilots are not good but because most players don't like to take risk when going into a tournament. And that's what the Interceptor is all about, taking risk. It still has only 3 hull and is highly dependant on actions and dodging arcs. Getting blocked or taking the wrong turn just once can determine life and death for the pilot. So people only go to the safest pilot of the lot: Fel with his PS9 and second Focus. He's the training wheel and safety net of Tie Interceptors.

Let's not fool ourselves, most of the list we see are just copy-paste of a list that proved itself successful during past tournaments (Dual Aggressor, Decimator+Fel/Whisper, Dash+Corran, TLT Ys, BBBBZ, etc). And that's the beauty of elite Interceptor lists, and why you'll never see them dominate the meta: You can't just copy an Elite Interceptor list and win the day, you actually need to know how to fly them. It is also mentally taxing, something that should be taken into consideration when taking choosing a list. One is easily manageable, but three of them that must coordinate their approach to concentrate fire on their prey, not that easy if you're not used to it.

The Interceptor, I hope, will always be a high risk/high reward ship. And that's why, except for Fel, we'll never see other pilots constantly into the meta. Not because they are bad, but because they are high risk glass cannon, and most players are just not willing to take it. That, and also that Fel is so good that most player just won't bother with the others. Why take Turr when I could just have it easier with Fel?

So, if you (not specifically you, but players in general) just want to dab into flying Interceptors, I can understand that you might find the Ace pack underwhelming. But for players like me that see the Interceptor for something else than just Fel+PtL+title+Autothrusters+Stealth Device, the pack brought some wonderful options that makes it very good.

Just bring Echo...

Just bring Echo...

To be fair, Echo and Zeta Ace are not in the same price range.

Just bring Echo...

To be fair, Echo and Zeta Ace are not in the same price range.

This is kinda true sorta ish, but if you start talking about EU and PTL... price starts getting close and those 2 extra red dice are mighty attractive. As is that system slot.

Honestly If you are building a list around verZace, may as well just stop being a cheapskate and bring Echo...

I would not build a list around him, but I could definetly see me use him as a lone flanker. I'm not sure about Engine Upgrade though, because for 25pts I think I still prefer a Royal Guard Pilot... But Zeta with PtL for 21pts is quite interesting when you don't have the points for other arc dodgers.

Just bring Echo...

To be fair, Echo and Zeta Ace are not in the same price range.

This is kinda true sorta ish, but if you start talking about EU and PTL... price starts getting close and those 2 extra red dice are mighty attractive. As is that system slot.

Honestly If you are building a list around verZace, may as well just stop being a cheapskate and bring Echo...

A fairly standard build for Echo is going to come in at 40 points (VI,ACD,Recon Spec, FCS) is going to come in at 40 points. That's the same price at PTL,EU Zeta Ace and an Epsilon Squad Pilot. That's a significant difference in price. I'm not a huge fan of making Zeta Ace that expensive but there's a huge difference between 25 and 40 points.

A 40 point ship kind of defines your squad. A 25 point ship may just be filling a hole.

What about the Zeta Ace with Predator?

What about the Zeta Ace with Predator?

Pretty much the exact same situation as with Predator on any Squint: it's not terrible, but between the dial and wide array of actions, Push the Limit is far better.