I've been trying to figure out how the cost of ships is worked out. But it involves maths and that hurts my brain. So if one of the maths gurus could help out, I'd be grateful.

Is there a basic cost for everything that goes to make up a generic small based ship? i.e. pilot skill, evade, attack, hull, shields or upgrade slots.

And if so, is it consistent across the game as a whole?

Cheers

Baaa

There was a fairly accurate points formula. Until Wave 3. Then, it was pretty much tossed out.

There was a fairly accurate points formula. Until Wave 3. Then, it was pretty much tossed out.

Accurate if incorrect, given said formula gave us the X-wing, Tie Advanced, and A-wing (All of which have significant deficiencies compared to the tie fighter)

Attack wing has a strict formula for ship costs, but X-wing does not. For what it's worth, ships are waaaay better costed in X-wing than Star Trek Attack Wing.

To be more specific, the STAW formula is 2 points per stat point on a ship, plus a 2 point premium for a non-generic ship. Firing arcs and dials are not reflected in their point formula.

both As (Wing and Advance) were overpriced due to a hilarious optimism about the impact ordnance (specifically missiles) would have on the game

Oh heavens no. They just do what feels right.

8 waves into the future and ordinance continues to be priced relative to the original Proton Torpedo and Concussion Missile instead of taking into account the other secondary weapons that don't get discarded. Advanced proton torpedoes are about as useful as TLT, right?

At least the fixes have done wonders for the early ships...except everyone is still griping about the X-wing even before Integrated Astromech is released.

As this game gets bigger the point costs makes less sense. So I would say there is no rhyme or reason.

ordnance actually isn't priced relative to original pt anymore

Plasmas, for example, are a marked improvement

but the fix to ordnance won't come from ordnance itself; it'll come from dedicated upgrades whether they're specific pilots (Redline, n'dru) or upgrade combinations (Jumpmaster5000 --> deadeye, recon, r4, torpedo, munitions) that overcome the limitations on ordnance and produce more damage than a standard cannon shot

plus the guidance w.e thingy coming with the Inquisitor and the Jumpmaster

All of that makes missiles and torpedoes even more expensive...which I don't worry about, but it seems a lot of folks do.

expense is irrelevant if it actually punches right. Both Redline and N'dru murder the crap out of anything they get to fire on.

After playing plenty of Redline, he's revealed himself to be an imperial Wedge: an utter glass cannon, except one that won't auto-die to fatships and will kill everything regardless of their agility value.

Plasmas are better-than-HLCs (or phantom primaries) with him; clusters are just disgusting. Dude has wracked up a tally of dead soontirs, vaders, whispers, X-wings (with proxied IA, of course), Poes, y-wings, b-wings, and YVs so far. He's terrifyingly punchy.

He is still more difficult to use than your typical ace, but at least he hits that much harder in order to warrant the use of ordnance. As long as ordnance becomes an effective limited-use weapon relative to more stable turrets/cannons, then having similar costs doesn't really matter (because they hit harder).

not to mention things like recon and k4 are useful regardless of ordnance. If the fully loaded generic jumpmaster5000 clocks in at HLC Fringer prices (37 points), then we're going to be in business (real bloody business)

Attack wing has a strict formula for ship costs, but X-wing does not. For what it's worth, ships are waaaay better costed in X-wing than Star Trek Attack Wing.

To be more specific, the STAW formula is 2 points per stat point on a ship, plus a 2 point premium for a non-generic ship. Firing arcs and dials are not reflected in their point formula.

Attack Wing's is stupidly linear. Even when there was a points formula for X-wing, it wasn't exactly linear, and still subject to playtest results. There probably still is a base formula for them to begin at, but tweak based on playtesting and additional knowledge gained.

Even back in Waves 1-3, it was clearly a multi-step process. The rough formula, as reverse-engineered by a poster named ShadowJak, was 2 + Pilot Skill + 8x(Attack-2) + 8x(Agility-2) + 4.25x(Hull-3) + 4.5xShields, with an extra point (usually) for an elite talent slot and an extra point (sometimes 2 points, although not in Wave 1) for a pilot ability.

But even in Wave 1, it was clear that things were tweaked based on playtesting. By Wave 3 the formulas were consistently off-target, and most people stopped trying to use them.

And that formula wasn't a particularly good way to approach things anyway, since it makes the bad assumption that various parts of a ship's stat line are independent and have a linear effect on the ship's value. We know now that's not true: for instance, extra hit points are worth more on a high-Agility ship than a low-Agility one.

Another, more valid way to look at things is to start with the average damage a ship deals in a number of typical scenarios and the average damage the same ship is likely to take, and use those to determine a ship's value. But that requires a lot of work and a number of critically important assumptions, and I don't think FFG is actually doing it.

The rhyme and reason is basically limiting the ships to numbers in the 100 point fleets.

TIE Academy costs 12 to keep you from running a 9-ship swarm.

X-Wing costed 21 to keep you from running 5, but 4 was deemed too few so the Khiraxz costs 20

Et c. Et c.

deleted. put in wrong forum

improved version

sorry wrong topic

These days you can often cost a ship simply by looking at similar ships. For example the myst hunter has to be equal to or 1 pt less than the bwing (unless there are dial considerations. The PS3 will most likely be 23 pts - on par with the bwing).

The costing of the VCX however, must have been a tricky thing as there are a lot of factors there.

Look at Redline vs Rhymer. A one point difference in cost. No EPT slot but 3 shields and an extra bomb slot. Somethings don't make sense but the game is still a blast to play.

These days you can often cost a ship simply by looking at similar ships. For example the jumpmaster has to be equal to or 1 pt less than the bwing (unless there are dial considerations. The PS3 will most likely be 23 pts - on par with the bwing).

I'd eat a shoe if the PS 3 Jumpmaster was 23 points (Warden Squadron costs 23 points)

it's got a garbage 2-dice PWT, but lets consider the following:

1. large base barrel-roll (hell yeah!)

2. K-wing health, +1 agility

3. higher native PS that pushes them conveniently out of predator range, at the very least

4. native EPT slot, even on the generic

this thing is going to run you at least 26 points (3 points down from the Slaver), and then after the full ordnance boat loadout (deadeye, plasmas, munis, recon, r4) it'll clock in, hopefully, at 37 points exact - the same price as an HLC wild space fringer

honestly, even 4 points below the Fringer is optimistic. I'm just putting 26 as the ideal and hoping it won't match or exceed the generic YV-666 in price.

ballparking is the best we can do without a set forumla. Only other thing we have is Juggler's mathwing, and we already know FFG doesn't work along those lines

Look at Redline vs Rhymer. A one point difference in cost. No EPT slot but 3 shields and an extra bomb slot. Somethings don't make sense but the game is still a blast to play.

Rhymes is one of the most over costed pilots in the game. So, hopefully they aren't using him as a basis for comparison.

Look at Redline vs Rhymer. A one point difference in cost. No EPT slot but 3 shields and an extra bomb slot. Somethings don't make sense but the game is still a blast to play.

Rhymes is one of the most over costed pilots in the game. So, hopefully they aren't using him as a basis for comparison.

I tend to agree with you. I was throwing that example out as a comparison. I'd rather have Redline with the double TL and 3 shields than Rhymer's ability. True you're giving up an EPT slot and 1 agility for Redline but I think it's a good trade.

These days you can often cost a ship simply by looking at similar ships. For example the jumpmaster has to be equal to or 1 pt less than the bwing (unless there are dial considerations. The PS3 will most likely be 23 pts - on par with the bwing).

I'd eat a shoe if the PS 3 Jumpmaster was 23 points (Warden Squadron costs 23 points)

it's got a garbage 2-dice PWT, but lets consider the following:

1. large base barrel-roll (hell yeah!)

2. K-wing health, +1 agility

3. higher native PS that pushes them conveniently out of predator range, at the very least

4. native EPT slot, even on the generic

this thing is going to run you at least 26 points (3 points down from the Slaver), and then after the full ordnance boat loadout (deadeye, plasmas, munis, recon, r4) it'll clock in, hopefully, at 37 points exact - the same price as an HLC wild space fringer

honestly, even 4 points below the Fringer is optimistic. I'm just putting 26 as the ideal and hoping it won't match or exceed the generic YV-666 in price.

ballparking is the best we can do without a set forumla. Only other thing we have is Juggler's mathwing, and we already know FFG doesn't work along those lines

Sorry, I was actually talking about the Myst Hunter (I get the 2 mixed up all the time). ><

Yah, the PS3 Jumpmaster will likely be 25 or 26 (I wouldn't be surprised if Dengar's ability is 2 pts).

I like to think that the developers figure out costs based on playtesting, rather than mathematical formulas.

Don't forget Drea when it comes to superior torp carriers. Her + R4-B11 means that protons will hit their target and do max damage every single time..

They ran off formulas, initally. Once they started having enough ships and playtesting experience out in the wilds, they started tweaking things around more. Don't forget that both the A-wing and the Interceptor were overpriced at launch; they'd clearly valued agility more than they should in their estimations. Both have since been buffed (In the case of the Interceptor, only the elites, alas, but hey ho).

That said, they still get it wrong at times - it should have been pretty clear that the Scyk would have been too much at 14 (1pt less than an A-wing for a weaker dial and a whole HP less?), even if the title 'should have' looked right. I do wonder how that happens, but it seems to happen more when they're doing big sets of releases at once - Scum & Villany had a whole lot of design work to do, after all.

Personally, I'm just eyeing the Mist Hunter very closely. That they've pegged it at PS3 is very interesting indeed - I'm hoping this is to make it 23pts to the B-wings 22. That would make for a fine ship, without quite the generic-spam capabilities of the B.

We'll see, of course... we always do.