Mirrimon has it.

The Defender is supposed to be the BEST starfighter EVER produced.

And it's certainly point-costed in that range. Trick is to find an upgrade that manages to bring it up to par, without being overwhelming for anything else.

Who knows, maybe Tractor Beam could be the thing...

It all depends on tractor beam ability. If it's a utility non damage based atk. I think a title that grants the defender a free tractor beam and allow it to fire its primary as well would suffice. This means the defender retains its superior mobility and increases its defense by restricting its competitors ability to get the defender in its primary arc. However the defender would be just as durable as it is now and still be countered by turrets.

I really like this idea. I can't wait to see how the Tractor Beam works.

I floated pretty much this same idea a few months back- if anything, my idea was even more restricted, and people were wanting to put a point value on it. (my version was a single eye result per turn, not a full token)

I do still feel this idea has merit. A naked 1 PS Delta costs the same as a Soontier Fel with Push the Limit. Giving the Delta a focus even on red moves, barrel rolls, Target locks, or asteroids reinforces it as one of the most powerful ships on a small base, giving it a sence of inevitability and juggernaut-ness that gives the defender a unique niche.

Nope. The correct solution is still this combined with this and this.

Agreed. Don't make the defender a super-interceptor.

Agreed. That's what the TIE Avenger is for.

The TIE Defender should be a Super-Avenger.

Nope. The correct solution is still this combined with this and this.

Agreed. Don't make the defender a super-interceptor.

Agreed. That's what the TIE Avenger is for.

The TIE Defender should be a Super-Avenger.

Oh c'mon now, those are some solutions. This is one more, and not a bad one.

The correct solution is if any of us strike lucky on whatever the designers come out with. I believe some folks did actually nail the TIE x1 but for the points discount, so it's not impossible.

Immediately after revealing a red maneuver, perform a free boost action.

The red maneuver following will prevent PtL shenanigans and it gives some more of the awesome maneuverability of the ship while still pressing the speed.

So they can boost after hard turns and... hard turns? That seems awfully specific. Would be hilarious on a Shuttle, though.

While a sledgehammer, the bit I do like about the 'free focus' thing is that every Defender can use it, but in different ways - Rexlar finally gets to use his auto-crit ability while still modifying dice via Target Lock (Turning him into a sorta-TIE-Advanced, in some respects), Vessery gets more durability, and Focus is great for low-PS pilots who can spend it on defense, then on shooting if it's still left behind - so the generics benefit, too.

Beyond a Sensor slot (which would have been my pick, but the TIE Advanced got that instead)... it's probably my favourite of the 'simple' fixes to come up in just how many things it fixes.

Still curious what the designers think of, though.

Seriously, why the hell do so maybe people call the System slot the Sensor slot?!

'cuz it's picture is a cute little dish, mostly.

(And I was actually thinking about Sensor Jammers mid-post, so I got mixed up. )

Which is funny, cause the most famous sensor dish in Star Wars is the one on the Falcon and the Falcon doesn't even get a System slot.

So they can boost after hard turns and... hard turns? That seems awfully specific. Would be hilarious on a Shuttle, though.

No, he said you boost after you reveal a red maneuver. This basically gives them advanced sensors + boost when using turns (but not banks). It means that you get more out of your red maneuvers because each red maneuver can get you to 4 different positions: not boosting, boosting left, boosting straight, and boosting right. It's actually a really neat idea. My only problem with it is that it is way more useful on the high PS pilots and it then makes them kinda arc-dodgy.

So they can boost after hard turns and... hard turns? That seems awfully specific. Would be hilarious on a Shuttle, though.

No, I was thinking before executing. Reveal your dial on a red maneuver, boost, move. No action but you feel the need, the need for speed.

You can´t PtL off of it because then you´d have a stress token, giving the dial to the opponent.

Actually, reading up on the rules, that wouldn't work as desired either because the trigger for the opponent to reset the dial would be when you are stressed at the moment of revealing your dial.

I was thinking something along the lines of a mini-SLAM, the thing is fast and maneuverable after all.

When you reveal a red maneuver, you may perform a boost. Reminiscent of the decloaking rules?

Defenders have four reds, but they're all the same reds - turn to the left or right at speeds less than 3.

It's not a terrible idea, but it'd be vastly more interesting on a shuttle, which has reds in every direction (including straight ahead, if you think about it - Stops don't turn your ship )

Or, y'know, a B-wing, but they've already got enough tricks.

And as noted, repositional abilities of the sort are worth far more to high-PS pilots than low. And it's the Low-PS pilots that need the most help. Rexlar would like some too, sure, but if you want to help him, a free Focus would just about do the trick on the spot.

So they can boost after hard turns and... hard turns? That seems awfully specific. Would be hilarious on a Shuttle, though.

No, I was thinking before executing. Reveal your dial on a red maneuver, boost, move. No action but you feel the need, the need for speed.

You can´t PtL off of it because then you´d have a stress token, giving the dial to the opponent.

Actually, reading up on the rules, that wouldn't work as desired either because the trigger for the opponent to reset the dial would be when you are stressed at the moment of revealing your dial.

I was thinking something along the lines of a mini-SLAM, the thing is fast and maneuverable after all.

When you reveal a red maneuver, you may perform a boost. Reminiscent of the decloaking rules?

Agree with the sediment that it would fit more on the shuttle side.

Hmm...

In a Bomber/Defender Ace pack that includes a TIE shuttle title (0 points, Gain a crew slot. You cannot equip missiles, torpedos or bombs)

"Flight Enginneer" (crew, imperial only) 2 points (1 point less because only the bomber dial and the shuttle dial, of ships that carry crew, have non-Kturn red maneuvers)

When you reveal a red maneuver, you may perform a free boost action.

It's a Lambada shuttle buff that uses a crew slot, but bombers, firesprays and phantoms can pay 2 points for the opton of maneuverable, longer K turns, and bombers with the new title get a tighter turn.

Defender title that gives a free focus every turn for 0 points is the defender fix, and then...

Linked ions as a cannon, for a price that Aggressors and Bwings will consider.

Defender only mod that gives a tractor beam

Variable Loadout Launchers, (Missile, 0 points, Tie Defender only) Gain a Torpedo Slot

-Comes with an Advanced Proton Torpedo

A free focus token is better than an evade action for Tie Defender. An evade action stops 1 point per turn. Double focus on 3 green dice stops an extra 1.5. And if you dont evade, it stops 0, while the free focus still stops .75

Title: TIE Defender

Every time you hit during an attack, immediately destroy that ship.

Each time you destroy a ship, move as if executing maneuver on dial and preform another attack.

Title: TIE Defender

Every time you hit during an attack, immediately destroy that ship.

Each time you destroy a ship, move as if executing maneuver on dial and preform another attack.

Why do people like you even bother posting? Do you seriously think of that as a fix?

Assumptions:

- The Defender free focus comes from a title; something along the lines of "At the start of combat, you may assign this ship a focus token."

- We ignored stress. The situations in which the two ships stress themselves are pretty different, but I think ultimately don't matter when it comes to the big picture. No advantage.

- Both Vader and Vessery get their TL shenanigans.

So I had a chance to playtest a couple games with this 'title' (on VASSAL with a friend of mine).

Two games using Onyx w/ TIE mk2 vs. 4 BTL-A4 y-wings (w/ ion turrets, one had R3-A2 and a two others with bombs). The first game the title Defender title was huge. That extra focus meant that it took 3 y-wings firing at range 2 to finally put an ion token on one of the defenders (knocking off the first shield). Next turn, even after bumping, the Defender still had 2 hull (only 2 y-wings could shoot it since one went passed and another bumped it), however the other two defenders were able to TL+focus one y-wing and destroy it. Once down to 3 y-wings, it was very hard to finish off the damaged defender, and even when it went down, the remaining 2 defenders were in better shape than the remaining 2 y-wings which were subsequently destroyed without losing any more defenders.

Observations on 1st game: the free focus was extremely useful it increased the 'jousting' value of the defenders immensely, because when on defense, it was stopping at least one (a couple times two) damage per turn, and when used on offense with Target Lock, really added to the damage output (especially at range 1). Nothing could stop it neither (not stress, bumping, being ioned or even running over a conner net at one point). For this reason, it seems a bit too good. For the second game, we decided to change it slightly so that it was not so effective against 'control' elements.

Title wording for 2nd game: 'when you perform a manoeuvre on your dial, you may gain a free focus token provided you do not overlap a ship or obstacle'. The reason for this change is because it just felt very strong against ion weapons in particular, and given the fact that its already ignoring stress, it just seemed to invalidate control builds completely. Also, adding in the condition that you don't get the focus if you overlap a ship or obstacle means the defender player can't just fly stupid and expect to win on dice alone---it also gives the opposing player the feeling that they can actually counter this ability if they block or force a defender to go over a rock/debris.

Played the second game with the wording change and the y-wings won this time. It was very close---2 surviving y-wings each had 1 hull left when the last defender was destroyed. Ions were definitely more effective this game, and the free focus was devastating whenever a defender got into range 1. The first defender still lasted longer than he probably should have, although ceased getting a free focus after the first ion token (next turn he got ioned onto a rock, took no damage, but still had to fly through it next turn and so again no action or focus token).

For the next two games, I flew Bio-physical's double defender list vs a z-95 feedback swarm (7 binayre pirates w/ feedback arrays):

Rexler w/ Predator, HLC, ion pulse missiles + hull = 53

Vessery w/ Lone Wolf, HLC & stealth = 47

The first game we used the original title wording in Wicked Grey's OP. This game was not even close. The only damage on the Defenders was from feedback. I think Vessery lost a couple shields that way and Rex took no damage at all. I don't feel that it was entirely due to the title though. My opponent laid a trap for Rex which I avoided with a 3 hard turn back to my own board edge giving him no shots and Vessery one-shotted a z (they had already killed a z the turn before with combined fire). Highlights include Rexler getting to use his ability twice against z-95s (something I've never seen happen before). Spent that free focus to flip over a thrust control fire (after it k-turned, so double stressed) and later a damaged sensor array; so it was useful both times.

The second game we used the changed wording for the title that we came up with, but my buddy was hip to my trick and managed to catch Vessery with a block. He didn't die outright (thank you lone wolf + stealth!) but lost his shields and died a while later. Even so, Rex was beastly and managed to wipe the remaining z-95's, although it took a while (I had to avoid range1---did a lot of 5 straights before even thinking of k-turning). I think he had 2 or 3 hull left by the end and still got to use his ability once this game (also one-shotted two z-95s thanks to TL + focus and some blanky greens)

Observations: The free focus really helped both Rex and Vess. They were very resilient to two attack dice----most of the damage they suffered was at range 1 (either from 3 dice attacks or feedback array). Both versions of the title seemed very powerful on these two aces allowing multiple one-shot kills of z-95s in both games. Not sure if that's too powerful or not though (my buddy thought it was). Obviously its not enough games to decide whether this is an appropriate ability to give to Defenders, but it was definitely fun and I really liked how it made Rexler's ability relevant.

Also, myself and my friend are not the strongest players in the world, so perhaps we're not qualified to be 'expert' play-testers. Even so, I think this is a decent way to go for 'fixing' the Defender. My friend felt it was maybe too strong, but I think its because he only managed to win one of the games. By the fourth game though, it was nice knowing that he was really dreading facing TIE defenders. Something I haven't seen very often when using them...

Interesing playtest data. I wonder...

If the "full" version with unstoppable foci was 3 points and for defenders only, then triple Deltas would exist, Onyx with a modification would be a high level ace, and Rexler and Vessery become fat point fortresses. All in all, the Defender becomes a scary monster.

Having the title be free, but change only 1 eye result insead of an entre roll (like Poe or Luke) woud let defenders have some of that invulnerability but still be beatable, and Rexler could use it on his HLC shot and save his ACTUAL focus token for his ability

blade_mercurial: So glad to hear you tried it out! I think that you're probably right, in that the free focus needs some sort of weakness to control elements. I'd like to keep it available when stressed, since I think that does interesting things with the red turns, rebel captive, etc. I like the idea of having it be turned off by obstacles and bumping and ions, like you had.

Having it turned off by bumping makes the PS1 deltas all the more powerful.

"When you complete a maneuver on your dial, if your base is not touching another ship or obstruction, add a focus token to your ship"

Interesing playtest data. I wonder...

If the "full" version with unstoppable foci was 3 points and for defenders only, then triple Deltas would exist, Onyx with a modification would be a high level ace, and Rexler and Vessery become fat point fortresses. All in all, the Defender becomes a scary monster.

Having the title be free, but change only 1 eye result insead of an entre roll (like Poe or Luke) woud let defenders have some of that invulnerability but still be beatable, and Rexler could use it on his HLC shot and save his ACTUAL focus token for his ability

So basically the Poe ability without the need of a focus token on all TIE Defenders. My gut reaction is that it is too powerful.

Even if it was just the Poe ability on all TIE Defenders it would still be really really strong.

The question is though, do we want the TIE Defender to be stronger against swarms or in 1 on 1 fights. Or do we want it to have no specific advantage over either.

Against a swarm, a Poe like ability is stronger

Against low ship count, free focus is stronger

Interesing playtest data. I wonder...

If the "full" version with unstoppable foci was 3 points and for defenders only, then triple Deltas would exist, Onyx with a modification would be a high level ace, and Rexler and Vessery become fat point fortresses. All in all, the Defender becomes a scary monster.

Having the title be free, but change only 1 eye result insead of an entre roll (like Poe or Luke) woud let defenders have some of that invulnerability but still be beatable, and Rexler could use it on his HLC shot and save his ACTUAL focus token for his ability

So basically the Poe ability without the need of a focus token on all TIE Defenders. My gut reaction is that it is too powerful.

Even if it was just the Poe ability on all TIE Defenders it would still be really really strong.

The question is though, do we want the TIE Defender to be stronger against swarms or in 1 on 1 fights. Or do we want it to have no specific advantage over either.

Against a swarm, a Poe like ability is stronger

Against low ship count, free focus is stronger

He means once per round, not every-roll like Poe.

I think a slightly more conditional Focus is probably the way to go; if nothing else it already has tokens to track bonuses being spent. How to limit it? Well, no-bumping is certainly one. I wonder about others?

Interesing playtest data. I wonder...

If the "full" version with unstoppable foci was 3 points and for defenders only, then triple Deltas would exist, Onyx with a modification would be a high level ace, and Rexler and Vessery become fat point fortresses. All in all, the Defender becomes a scary monster.

Having the title be free, but change only 1 eye result insead of an entre roll (like Poe or Luke) woud let defenders have some of that invulnerability but still be beatable, and Rexler could use it on his HLC shot and save his ACTUAL focus token for his ability

no bumping and no ion seem to be the main suggestions at this point.

So basically the Poe ability without the need of a focus token on all TIE Defenders. My gut reaction is that it is too powerful.

Even if it was just the Poe ability on all TIE Defenders it would still be really really strong.

The question is though, do we want the TIE Defender to be stronger against swarms or in 1 on 1 fights. Or do we want it to have no specific advantage over either.

Against a swarm, a Poe like ability is stronger

Against low ship count, free focus is stronger

He means once per round, not every-roll like Poe.

I think a slightly more conditional Focus is probably the way to go; if nothing else it already has tokens to track bonuses being spent. How to limit it? Well, no-bumping is certainly one. I wonder about others?

I don't like Poe-like abilities (once per round), because I want the tokens to be vulnerable to Palob and Jax, and I think the tokenless approach helps Brath significantly less.

While I still think that -2 is about the right price to make Defenders not always be a second choice to Vader, I could understand wanting to price the upgrade at zero.

Vader does different things, to be fair. And Vader is also the single best TIE Advanced pilot out there by a long mile. Juno and Stele are good buys, too - but no-one is ever going to quite compare to Vader, and I'm not sure they should be expected to. Notice how the fix they threw in is absolutely the best thing Stele could have hoped for, and Juno simply attempts to do something fundamentally different - they rigged things so no-one had to compete with him. Even then, Vader is still that extra half a step above, and I suspect that this was an accepted 'price' of the fix they threw together, and probably accepted with "Well, hell, it's Vader. If anyone was going to be underpriced, at least it's him, right?"

How about making the focus conditional on hitting with an attack? Or weaker still, on losing a hull? Still useful where it counts, at the sharp end of an engagement...