How are we getting blue dice at long range?

Defiance lets you add a die of any colour o the attack pool if attacking an already activated ship.

(It's a shame that there isn't an ordinance upgrade slot on the MC80... Could you imagine triggering APT at long range? *troll face*)

And have FFG said something about that allowing dice to be rolled at the wrong ranges? My reading of the rules would be sure, you can add dice of any colour, but you still can't roll them if they're not in range. The advantage over "add one of any die already in your pool" is that say you're at close range but you only have red and blues, you can add a black (or add a blue at medium if you only have red and black, or add a single red to use at long range if you didn't have any).

Per FAQ pg 2:

Q: When a ship resolves an ability that allows it to add dice

to the attack pool, can it add those dice if their color is not

normally appropriate for the range of the attack?

A: Yes. The range restriction on dice color applies only when

dice are gathered during the “Roll Attack Dice” step of an

attack.

Cool, thanks!

I have a game tomorrow using a couple ship configs I have never tried.

ISD, Intel Officer, Heavy Turbolaser turrets, Electronic Counter Measures

I want the option to always use my brace. But I also want my opponents brace to be potentially discarded. He can use only his brace in a defense agaist my HTT if he wants full effect, but then my Intel Officer is going to make him discard it.

HTT: The opponent now has a choice, take 4 damage on one arc, or take 7 damage on two arcs (with evade it drops down to 5 damage, but evade I uncertain, and target would have just exhausted ALL their defence tokens, so WIN!).

XI7: take 3 damage on one arc, one damage on another. (With evade it goes down to three damage total).

So yeah, HTTs are superior to XI7s, by quite a margin, that only increases as the dice go up. (E.g. Once you hit 9 damage, you are getting through someone's shields (except a mon cal).

Hmmmmmm and the MC30 has a Turbolaser Upgrade slot...

Agreed. Even at low damage (3-4), HTTs will either result in taking most of the damage where you wanted it (brace or evade), or all of the damage somewhere (redirect), or most of the damage somewhere (evade + redirect). Once that damage spikes above nine, as you've pointed out, there aren't any good options. Five damage with a brace is boring through a shield. Taking nine damage spread with a redirect (or even seven damage due to an evade and then spread around) isn't sustainable.

I wouldn't really consider trc on a Vic over warlord + h9 for one major consideration. Needa has to remove one of your redirect tokens for an evade, and that evade is almost always going to get exhausted for the double hit or crit results. So your effectively reducing your defense token count to a single brace and redirect, which isn't all that great if your taking more than a single shot a turn.

There's also the slight bonus that h9 and warlord always deals a damage in anti squadron fire no matter what.

Compared to trc and needa on an ISD, and now you can maintain your defense token count and sustainability, while greatly improving your damage potential NY deleting the contain token. Plus if you get an adequate roll at say medium range, you can opt to keep the evade token and have 4!! Usable defense tokens at the ready. Since needa is a unique, he's gonna be far better value on the isd than the vsd counterpart

I'm not sure I entirely agree on swapping a redirect with an evade token on a Vic. While two redirects are nice while you have shields, there are other times after shields have dried up when I'd rather have an evade with the potential to cancel two damage. With so many red dice coming our way to bolster ships that prefer long range, I think the evade is more likely to be more valuable, not less. That said, I haven't play-tested yet, so maybe I'll feel differently after a few rounds with just one redirect. I do agree with Warlord + H9 as the more valuable combo overall, though it's a more significant point investment (16 points) than Needa + TRCs (9 points), so that's something that might encourage some to choose it.

I do agree that in most cases (again, without playtesting), I feel like I'd rather have the evade on the ISD than a contain. But I think I'd rather have Heavy Turbolaser Turrets on an ISD than TRCs, even with the evade...

I agree too, but that's mostly just the value of needa giving a great ability and offering utility in defense tokens. For single attacks its better to have all 3 types than 2. I was taking it in the context of the trc combo compared to the warlord one.

Personally I wouldn't take trc cause you can, I'd see it more useful to cr90s and maybe yavaris/salvation more than anything else.

I have a game tomorrow using a couple ship configs I have never tried.

ISD, Intel Officer, Heavy Turbolaser turrets, Electronic Counter Measures

I want the option to always use my brace. But I also want my opponents brace to be potentially discarded. He can use only his brace in a defense agaist my HTT if he wants full effect, but then my Intel Officer is going to make him discard it.

This is the nasty combination I was coming to this thread for. Internet cookies for you, my good sir.

The MC80 comes with a card allowing you to gain back a discarded defense token, but that is a hard counter to the new Ion Cannon in the ISD allowing you to make an enemy discard a token. I may jam that on my ISD as well.

I have a game tomorrow using a couple ship configs I have never tried.

ISD, Intel Officer, Heavy Turbolaser turrets, Electronic Counter Measures

I want the option to always use my brace. But I also want my opponents brace to be potentially discarded. He can use only his brace in a defense agaist my HTT if he wants full effect, but then my Intel Officer is going to make him discard it.

This is the nasty combination I was coming to this thread for. Internet cookies for you, my good sir.

Agreed. I think this will be brutal.

Unfortunately, I can't find anything smaller than a VSD-1 that can support that combination on the imperial side. Meanwhile, Rebels can put Ackbar on an AFIIB, add four Neb-B refits, and put Intel Officer + HTTs on all of them (with 21 points to spare for some smattering of Gunnery Team, ECMs, Advanced Projectors, Redemption , Salvation , Paragon , a couple of Y-wings, etc.).

I know Nebs are fragile, but in a speed 3 gunline, with three reds and blue out the side (+1 with CF dial), with Intel Officer + HTTs...

Corvettes can sport Intel Officer + HTTs, too. But that just seems unfair...

Well, on top of that, the Victory can't take the ECM either.

Because if it could, I'd be Advanced Projectoring all over that bastard.

Well, on top of that, the Victory can't take the ECM either.

Because if it could, I'd be Advanced Projectoring all over that bastard.

Grrrr... You are right. Need to have an ISD II to have all this. Not a 1. A 2.

Meanwhile, a CR-90A can take all three.

*goes back to the drawing board*

CR90s are welcome to be as expensive as my Victory 1 any day of the week. Anyway when it comes to the Victory Intel officer/HTT combo use Sensor Teams, instead of ECM. This just makes sure you narrow the enemies options into having to use the token they don't want to.

*Plus they would have to buy a lot of large ship expansions to kit out their Vettes like that. I doubt you will see the problem from anyone but the really into the game types.

ISD, Intel Officer, Heavy Turbolaser turrets, Electronic Counter Measures

Unfortunately, I can't find anything smaller than a VSD-1 that can support that combination on the imperial side.

I wrote this one up in my 'poor man's strategy thread' and attributed it to Wes. The list of ships that can take that combo is: both AFmk2, MC30, MC80, and also on the CR90A, ISD2. It is definitely a rebel strategy.

I think one of the biggest is XI7 vs just about everything (Except Neb-B), and Vader I even like it over HTT. Here's why:

Accuracy. If at long range, reds have some accuracy, and with XI7, you only need one. (Lock down the brace, 2 if he's got evade as well.) Let Vader re-roll the others. Especially if you have blues as well. So let's say a medium (or close) ISD2. That's 8 dice, and you are likely to get an accuracy on one of the blue die. (Assuming averages, 4 blue would average 1 accuracy each) Re-roll misses, and while I haven't calculated it out yet (I'm pretty good about guessing on probability, then confirming that I'm pretty close most of the time.), but that's likely to be on the order of (Assume for a moment, 1 blue got an accuracy) 15/16 expected damage with a red reroll. (With rerolling red accuracies, 33/32 expected damage per red rerolling hits/crits, as well gives a lower 7/8). And of course 3/4 per blue die. (Expected from 4 red 4 blue, 1 accuracy, 3 blue damage + 4.125 red damage, equating to 6 on one arc unless they have ECM or advaned projectors, which is going through.)

If you give that HTT instead, you would get up to 5 of those taken away (1 brace, 4 redirected shields), leaving an average of 2 into your shield arc. VSD, AFM2, MC80 would have no trouble, and a MC30 with an evade could likely survive without shield damage (medium range, or close with MM) Glad would be close to the MC30 performance (but likely to take a damage.)

It just depends on if you think you will get more accuracy rolls and spend them or not. (Most ships have more redirect than brace, so you'd have to use more accuracy on them, which is more likely to fail.)

The ISD is the odd man out for sure but, it has a rather jack of all trades sort of design. That flexability of how it will play within your fleet will be both a blessing and a curse. What role do I want it to play...

I meant to add, I have no intention of stopping them from using their redirects Captain ICT. The idea behind HTT is you either use your brace only or redirect all the damage I do. If you do want to increase the odds of an accuracy you could always toss a Sensor Team on there as well.

CR90s are welcome to be as expensive as my Victory 1 any day of the week. Anyway when it comes to the Victory Intel officer/HTT combo use Sensor Teams, instead of ECM. This just makes sure you narrow the enemies options into having to use the token they don't want to.

*Plus they would have to buy a lot of large ship expansions to kit out their Vettes like that. I doubt you will see the problem from anyone but the really into the game types.

I guess you could, though the "spend one dice" requirement on a Vic 1 (when you're usually only shooting 3 red dice, unless you have CF) gives me pause. Also not sure I'd rather have Sensor Team (guaranteed accuracy + 1 damage dice after spending one) over Gunnery Teams in that upgrade slot (six dice at two targets, no guaranteed accuracy). On a Vic II at medium range, the "spend one die" requirement becomes less painful, although Gunnery Team is also far more attractive.

On a CR-90A, I wouldn't bother with ECMs. I don't have a brace on that thing, I'm not particularly worried about a single barrage of long-range damage (and if I was, I have two evades), and at close range, those evades aren't doing anything unless I have Mon Mothma (which would mean no Ackbar + HTT synergy). A CR-90A with HTTs and Intel Officer is 57... which is a lot for a CR-90, but the same price as a naked Neb-B escort (or a Neb-B refit with HTTs), only more maneuverable and potent in combat. Not saying it's the greatest ship combo, just that 57 points is a really cheap platform for the HTTs + Intel Officer combo.

Agreed, CR-90 is a cheap combat pod for sure.

I wouldn't be putting Gunnery teams on my Vic-I. They are great and all, but I don't usually find to many opponents who feed my Victory I or IIs front guns more then one ship. As a matter of fact the last three times I used gunnery teams I only got to shoot at squadrons with my second attack. And a Vic is not a stellar squadron killer.

My Vic-Is have been getting slaved turrets. I find I am not getting multiple attacks anyway, so I add the extra red dice.

I have decided on my new flagship for my rebels.

MC80 command cruiser (174 points)

+ Admiral Ackbar

+ Intel Officer

+ ECM

+ NK7 Ion Cannons

+ XI7 turbolasers

It is accompanied by 4 squadrons:

Nym , 2x Y-wing and HWK90 (53 points)

The main purpose of this ship is stripping opponent's defence tokens with the intention of really pissing them off.

- It can do the usual XI7/Intel officer trick of forcing opponents to discard their brace, as their re-directs will be (nearly) useless

- It removes another defence token of their choice on a blue crit effect due to NK-7s

- Nym also removes defence tokens of my choice on a blue crit. The bombers will be easy to stay mobile because of the XI7's intel.

The rest of the fleet will have to be small base ships, and a couple of X-wings for anti-fighter duty.

I have decided on my new flagship for my rebels.

MC80 command cruiser (174 points)

+ Admiral Ackbar

+ Intel Officer

+ ECM

+ NK7 Ion Cannons

+ XI7 turbolasers

It is accompanied by 4 squadrons:

Nym , 2x Y-wing and HWK90 (53 points)

The main purpose of this ship is stripping opponent's defence tokens with the intention of really pissing them off.

- It can do the usual XI7/Intel officer trick of forcing opponents to discard their brace, as their re-directs will be (nearly) useless

- It removes another defence token of their choice on a blue crit effect due to NK-7s

- Nym also removes defence tokens of my choice on a blue crit. The bombers will be easy to stay mobile because of the XI7's intel.

The rest of the fleet will have to be small base ships, and a couple of X-wings for anti-fighter duty.

That's a metric crapton of points for that flagship, and no advanced projectors seems dubious. Your front arc is incredibly weak, and if you get bottled up into a position you can redirect to the appropriate side. At that many points invested I'd say you absolutely have to take EP since your looking at 150 remaining points after the squadrons you took.

That's a metric crapton of points for that flagship, and no advanced projectors seems dubious.

Thanks for the advice, I shall add advanced projectors to my bloated trolling albatross. I can't wait to try it

I have decided on my new flagship for my rebels.

MC80 command cruiser (174 points)

+ Admiral Ackbar

+ Intel Officer

+ ECM

+ NK7 Ion Cannons

+ XI7 turbolasers

It is accompanied by 4 squadrons:

Nym , 2x Y-wing and HWK90 (53 points)

The main purpose of this ship is stripping opponent's defence tokens with the intention of really pissing them off.

- It can do the usual XI7/Intel officer trick of forcing opponents to discard their brace, as their re-directs will be (nearly) useless

- It removes another defence token of their choice on a blue crit effect due to NK-7s

- Nym also removes defence tokens of my choice on a blue crit. The bombers will be easy to stay mobile because of the XI7's intel.

The rest of the fleet will have to be small base ships, and a couple of X-wings for anti-fighter duty.

It's a bit more points bloat, but what about the Defiance title to add a blue dice at range and look to trigger NK7 a few extra times per game?

Two MC80s in a single list can be particularly nasty when one of them is Home One and the other is an offense oriented Defiance. The ability to change a blank into an accuracy die/token is incredibly useful, especially when it comes to preventing an ISD from using its defensive tokens. Plus, if you equip the Defiance with SW-7 Ion Batteries you are guaranteed extra damage when combined with Home One.

That's a metric crapton of points for that flagship, and no advanced projectors seems dubious.

Thanks for the advice, I shall add advanced projectors to my bloated trolling albatross. I can't wait to try it

I don't know. With more damage being thrown out, brace is gonna be even more important in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, Advanced projectors is good but I think ECMs will be just as good since you really don't want to lose that brace when they are throwing 8 damage at you in one volley and accuracy out brace.

ECM was a life saver. Ackbar would have been melting my ISD-II cheese wedge over his dinner otherwise.

I think ecm is an auto buy for the big ships. Just too much damage and accuracies flying around otherwise

That's a metric crapton of points for that flagship, and no advanced projectors seems dubious.

Thanks for the advice, I shall add advanced projectors to my bloated trolling albatross. I can't wait to try it

I don't know. With more damage being thrown out, brace is gonna be even more important in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, Advanced projectors is good but I think ECMs will be just as good since you really don't want to lose that brace when they are throwing 8 damage at you in one volley and accuracy out brace.

It has two slots, so they aren't mutually exclusive on the mc80. You can take both and have the best of both worlds

Two MC80s in a single list can be particularly nasty when one of them is Home One and the other is an offense oriented Defiance. The ability to change a blank into an accuracy die/token is incredibly useful, especially when it comes to preventing an ISD from using its defensive tokens. Plus, if you equip the Defiance with SW-7 Ion Batteries you are guaranteed extra damage when combined with Home One.

The only concern I'd have about that list is the lack of attacks. With no Gunnery Team, you're looking at two super-attacks with Ackbar from two ships. Now, that's still a lot of firepower, and against 3 ship Imperial lists, it may be enough. But against Rebel mirror matches with 3-4 AFIIs with Gunnery Teams, HTTs/XI-7s, and an Ackbar clone, I'm more skeptical.

AFIIB (Ackbar, Intel Officer, Gunnery Team, Advanced Projectors/ECMs, XI-7/HTTs) - 136/137 points

AFIIB (Intel Officer, Gunnery Team, Advanced Projectors/ECMs, XI-7/HTTs) - 98/99 points

AFIIB (Intel Officer, Gunnery Team, Advanced Projectors/ECMs, XI-7/HTTs) - 98/99 points

B-wing (x3) - 42 points

A-wing (x2) - 22 points

TOTAL: 396-399 points

At long range, with their wide side arcs, it's not inconceivable each AFII could peg each MC-80 once. At medium range, this is virtually certain to happen (barring a colossal deployment error in the conga line). The MC-80s may be able to focus one down between them over a round, but outlasting all three will be a challenge.

I wish the ISD I had a defense slot. However, it is kind of nice to be the only ship that can run expanded hangers and boosted comms.