So, we all know and love the the Demolisher from Wave 1. Do you have an predictions for very painful ship / title / upgrade combinations?

My thought:

MC80

Defiance (Add die of any color when shooting at an already activated ship)

NK-7 Ion Cannons (On a blue critical, defender selects and discards a defense token)

Raymus Antilles (Gives you a token with the command dial)

So at long range, with a concentrate fire command, you get to throw two blue dice with a re-roll. If you get that blue critical, one defense token is gone... BEFORE they get to spend it (excluding evade, of course)...

NK-7's critical effect happens at the same time as every other critical effect: after defense tokens are spent. It's exactly the same thing as the Overload Pulse: defender gets to spend all off their defense tokens before it takes effect.

So, we all know and love the the Demolisher from Wave 1. Do you have an predictions for very painful ship / title / upgrade combinations?

My thought:

MC80

Defiance (Add die of any color when shooting at an already activated ship)

NK-7 Ion Cannons (On a blue critical, defender selects and discards a defense token)

Raymus Antilles (Gives you a token with the command dial)

So at long range, with a concentrate fire command, you get to throw two blue dice with a re-roll. If you get that blue critical, one defense token is gone... BEFORE they get to spend it (excluding evade, of course)...

Ardaedhel beat me to it. That, plus NK-7 gives the defender the choice of what to discard. Still good, but less useful than, say, Nym's ability where the attacker chooses the discarded token (always the brace , I would think...).

Some other combos (for law and order), by no means original:

• Raider : Screed + Raider II + NK-7/Overload Pulse for defense token counters, or Ion Cannon Batteries to strip nav tokens in conjunction with a larger ship's tractor beams. An Overload Pulse Raider II plus an Avenger ISD has tremendous damage potential.
• Gladiators : Vader + Glad I + Ordnance Experts + ACMs/APTs for insane damage output (real chance at 4-5 hit-crits on Glad broadsides, or 3 hit-crits, 1 double-hit, and 1 accuracy from a Glad forward arc... or potentially both at once, if you have defense tokens to burn with reckless abandon).
• VSDs/ISDs : VSD/ISD + Needa + Turbolaser Reroute = +2 damage to one VSD/ISD attack per round. Warlord + H-9 will still do the same for a Vic.

And my favorite Rebel combo:

• Neb-B refit + Redemption + Raymus + Projection Specialists: Neb-B with 6 engineering per turn (with free Raymus token). Regenerates 3 shields per turn, or can regenerate two and send them to whoever's hurting. All other ships in the fleet get +1 engineering (may amount to +2 with token, depending on how token round-ups work with Redemption ). Spam engineering on all ships, and you have a shield regeneration battery.

Yep, so they can still brace or redirect, once. It's still a nice combo, and can be set up on alot of different ships, though realistically I think only the mc80 wants it. Perhaps the raider, with screed, although that depends of how common mc80s are and ISDs.

Yeah, caught that timing issue right after I posted. I added a rules question asking if Ackbar can give the CR90B red dice at long range as well.

Even without, you can still run 4 CR90Bs with NK-7, for maximum defense token stripping fun. Ackbar would just let them fire at long range.

Cr90b wouldn't be able to fire as it doesn't have any initial red dice to make its attack pool. Ackbar adds to it so he comes into play after the initial roll. If you have no dice in the initial attack pool, your not allowed to make the attack

speaking of Akbar, Home One is utterly disgusting with Akbared frigates

also reasonably excited about SW-7 on the Avenger. Guaranteed damage is always very nice, and with Avenger you probably won't need too many accuracies

Demolisher probably isn't going anywhere with Mr Mon Ferret, or w.e his name is, obstructing shots

How are we getting blue dice at long range?

So, we all know and love the the Demolisher from Wave 1. Do you have an predictions for very painful ship / title / upgrade combinations?

My thought:

MC80

Defiance (Add die of any color when shooting at an already activated ship)

NK-7 Ion Cannons (On a blue critical, defender selects and discards a defense token)

Raymus Antilles (Gives you a token with the command dial)

So at long range, with a concentrate fire command, you get to throw two blue dice with a re-roll. If you get that blue critical, one defense token is gone... BEFORE they get to spend it (excluding evade, of course)...

Ardaedhel beat me to it. That, plus NK-7 gives the defender the choice of what to discard. Still good, but less useful than, say, Nym's ability where the attacker chooses the discarded token (always the brace , I would think...).

Some other combos (for law and order), by no means original:

• Raider : Screed + Raider II + NK-7/Overload Pulse for defense token counters, or Ion Cannon Batteries to strip nav tokens in conjunction with a larger ship's tractor beams. An Overload Pulse Raider II plus an Avenger ISD has tremendous damage potential.
• Gladiators : Vader + Glad I + Ordnance Experts + ACMs/APTs for insane damage output (real chance at 4-5 hit-crits on Glad broadsides, or 3 hit-crits, 1 double-hit, and 1 accuracy from a Glad forward arc... or potentially both at once, if you have defense tokens to burn with reckless abandon).
• VSDs/ISDs : VSD/ISD + Needa + Turbolaser Reroute = +2 damage to one VSD/ISD attack per round. Warlord + H-9 will still do the same for a Vic.

And my favorite Rebel combo:

• Neb-B refit + Redemption + Raymus + Projection Specialists: Neb-B with 8 engineering per turn (with free Raymus token). Regenerates 3 shields per turn, can send two of them to whoever's hurting. All other ships in the fleet get +1 engineering (+2 with token, given how token round-ups work with Redemption ). Spam engineering on all ships, and you have a shield regeneration battery.

What about VSD with Needa, Turbolaser Reroute, and Warlord? Isn't that +4 guaranteed per turn?

So, we all know and love the the Demolisher from Wave 1. Do you have an predictions for very painful ship / title / upgrade combinations?

My thought:

MC80

Defiance (Add die of any color when shooting at an already activated ship)

NK-7 Ion Cannons (On a blue critical, defender selects and discards a defense token)

Raymus Antilles (Gives you a token with the command dial)

So at long range, with a concentrate fire command, you get to throw two blue dice with a re-roll. If you get that blue critical, one defense token is gone... BEFORE they get to spend it (excluding evade, of course)...

Ardaedhel beat me to it. That, plus NK-7 gives the defender the choice of what to discard. Still good, but less useful than, say, Nym's ability where the attacker chooses the discarded token (always the brace , I would think...).

Some other combos (for law and order), by no means original:

• Raider : Screed + Raider II + NK-7/Overload Pulse for defense token counters, or Ion Cannon Batteries to strip nav tokens in conjunction with a larger ship's tractor beams. An Overload Pulse Raider II plus an Avenger ISD has tremendous damage potential.
• Gladiators : Vader + Glad I + Ordnance Experts + ACMs/APTs for insane damage output (real chance at 4-5 hit-crits on Glad broadsides, or 3 hit-crits, 1 double-hit, and 1 accuracy from a Glad forward arc... or potentially both at once, if you have defense tokens to burn with reckless abandon).
• VSDs/ISDs : VSD/ISD + Needa + Turbolaser Reroute = +2 damage to one VSD/ISD attack per round. Warlord + H-9 will still do the same for a Vic.

And my favorite Rebel combo:

• Neb-B refit + Redemption + Raymus + Projection Specialists: Neb-B with 8 engineering per turn (with free Raymus token). Regenerates 3 shields per turn, can send two of them to whoever's hurting. All other ships in the fleet get +1 engineering (+2 with token, given how token round-ups work with Redemption ). Spam engineering on all ships, and you have a shield regeneration battery.

What about VSD with Needa, Turbolaser Reroute, and Warlord? Isn't that +4 guaranteed per turn?

Why yes... yes it is.

Actually, it could be as consistently high as +6 per turn: +2 from burning Needa's evade once, and +2 twice from Warlord, if you have multiple arc shots (or a gunnery team on the Vic). Or, for a one turn mega-burst, it could be +8 if you burn the evade. Not likely to be an optimal scenario often, but if you have to get +2 damage (or +1 with a brace) in order to finish off a pesky enemy ship (or table your opponent), maybe it is...

And my favorite Rebel combo:

• Neb-B refit + Redemption + Raymus + Projection Specialists: Neb-B with 8 engineering per turn (with free Raymus token). Regenerates 3 shields per turn, can send two of them to whoever's hurting. All other ships in the fleet get +1 engineering (+2 with token, given how token round-ups work with Redemption ). Spam engineering on all ships, and you have a shield regeneration battery.

What am I not understanding here? Neb-B refit normally has 3 Engineering points. Raymus will grant a free token taking that up to 5 Engineering, Redemption adds 1 more making it 6 Engineering. Projection Specialists let you spend 2 of that 6 to send shields to other friendly ships. I don't see how you came up with 8 Engineering points.

Neb B plus Salvation plus XI7s plus Intel Officer with concentrated fire and Opening Salvo as the second player.

3 Reds plus 3 Black (2 for Opening Salvo as 2nd Player plus add one with Concentrated fire)

Possible 15 total damage with Black dies able to score 3 damage with a Crit plus hit role (2 points for the crit (Salvation) plus the 1 equals 3!)

Target is only able to redirect 1 point of damage (3 if Advanced projectors) and must toss his Brace in the pile to survive (Intel Officer).

How do you like them apples?

MC30 + Expanded Launchers + XI7 Turbolasers + Ordinance Experts. Expensive? Absolutely. But if you can get a single hull zone in both your front and side arcs that's 10 dice, seven of them black with rerolls, with only one damage being redirected per attack.

How are we getting blue dice at long range?

Defiance lets you add a die of any colour o the attack pool if attacking an already activated ship.

(It's a shame that there isn't an ordinance upgrade slot on the MC80... Could you imagine triggering APT at long range? *troll face*)

And my favorite Rebel combo:

• Neb-B refit + Redemption + Raymus + Projection Specialists: Neb-B with 8 engineering per turn (with free Raymus token). Regenerates 3 shields per turn, can send two of them to whoever's hurting. All other ships in the fleet get +1 engineering (+2 with token, given how token round-ups work with Redemption ). Spam engineering on all ships, and you have a shield regeneration battery.

What am I not understanding here? Neb-B refit normally has 3 Engineering points. Raymus will grant a free token taking that up to 5 Engineering, Redemption adds 1 more making it 6 Engineering. Projection Specialists let you spend 2 of that 6 to send shields to other friendly ships. I don't see how you came up with 8 Engineering points.

Whoops, wrong math here. Neb-B normally has 3 engineering. Redemption adds another engineering point to that, so the total is 4. Token is half of engineering, so 2, for a total of six, so you are correct.

The jump from six to eight is on an AFII or MC-80 with Redemption in the fleet, depending on how Redemption works. Default engineering of 4, +2 with token. I've treated Redemption as bumping engineering to 5, in which case the token is now worth half (2.5), rounded up (3), for a total of eight engineering. On further reflection, not sure that's how the ability works (I've searched high and low for an FAQ on redemption or engineering team, but with no success). If you just get a free point on top of whatever you have (4 + 2 + 1), that's still a nice jump in engineering. Unfortunately you can't equip Shield Specialists on an AFII (no support team slot), so the coolness of the effect is lost. You could still do it with an MC-80, but not sure you want to be siphoning shields off that thing.

Another supporting Neb could get up to 7 engineering, if it equips engineering team (3 + 1 from ET +1 from Redemption + 2 from Token). But no projection experts, so unless you're expecting to soak up damage ( Salvation ), it's probably lost engineering. Alternatively, two Neb-refits, one with Redemption and both with Projection Experts, spamming engineering, can produce and distribute a whopping 4 shields per turn (to a single target, or up to 4 different targets). Add this to a tanky MC-80 or AFII spamming engineering (and itself gleaning a benefit from Redemption ), and that's a ton of staying power for that ship.

Ardaedhel beat me to it. That, plus NK-7 gives the defender the choice of what to discard. Still good, but less useful than, say, Nym's ability where the attacker chooses the discarded token (always the brace , I would think...).

Some other combos (for law and order), by no means original:

• Raider : Screed + Raider II + NK-7/Overload Pulse for defense token counters, or Ion Cannon Batteries to strip nav tokens in conjunction with a larger ship's tractor beams. An Overload Pulse Raider II plus an Avenger ISD has tremendous damage potential.
• Gladiators : Vader + Glad I + Ordnance Experts + ACMs/APTs for insane damage output (real chance at 4-5 hit-crits on Glad broadsides, or 3 hit-crits, 1 double-hit, and 1 accuracy from a Glad forward arc... or potentially both at once, if you have defense tokens to burn with reckless abandon).
• VSDs/ISDs : VSD/ISD + Needa + Turbolaser Reroute = +2 damage to one VSD/ISD attack per round. Warlord + H-9 will still do the same for a Vic.

And my favorite Rebel combo:

• Neb-B refit + Redemption + Raymus + Projection Specialists: Neb-B with 8 engineering per turn (with free Raymus token). Regenerates 3 shields per turn, can send two of them to whoever's hurting. All other ships in the fleet get +1 engineering (+2 with token, given how token round-ups work with Redemption ). Spam engineering on all ships, and you have a shield regeneration battery.

What about VSD with Needa, Turbolaser Reroute, and Warlord? Isn't that +4 guaranteed per turn?

Why yes... yes it is.

Actually, it could be as consistently high as +6 per turn: +2 from burning Needa's evade once, and +2 twice from Warlord, if you have multiple arc shots (or a gunnery team on the Vic). Or, for a one turn mega-burst, it could be +8 if you burn the evade. Not likely to be an optimal scenario often, but if you have to get +2 damage (or +1 with a brace) in order to finish off a pesky enemy ship (or table your opponent), maybe it is...

As exhibit 2 for the fact that I should not be posting so late at night (thanks for the other catch, Edsel), I need to walk this one back, too.

Guaranteeing a 2 hit result with Warlord is contingent on you (1) not rolling a red blank on your target die, and (2) said target die rolling an accuracy result. You can cheat the second requirement with H-9s, which allows you to change a hit or crit result to an accuracy result, then convert that accuracy result to a double-hit. But that would require taking H-9s in the turbolaser upgrade slot, and not Turbolaser Reroute Circuits.

TRC doesn't require any particular die facing to trigger: as long as you spend the evade token, you can change any red die facing (including a blank) to a double-hit, automatically. In that respect, it is probably more valuable as a damage generator than Warlord itself. If you're converting a blank to a double-hit, the damage added is also going to be greater than H-9 + Warlord in most cases (since you're generally converting 1 damage--a hit or a crit--to a double-hit, for a net gain of 1 damage). Converting an accuracy result to a double-hit nets the same raw damage gain (+2 damage), although there was a forum thread a little while back that suggested that in most cases, you probably want to keep the accuracy result from H-9 (since your opponent's use of brace will usually lose you more than 2 damage).

But if you consistently roll at least one red accuracy and one red blank, you could add +2 damage from TRC, and another +2 with Warlord. Unless you're an Ackbared-MC-80, the odds of consistently getting those results consistently isn't going to be very high...

Neb B plus Salvation plus XI7s plus Intel Officer with concentrated fire and Opening Salvo as the second player.

3 Reds plus 3 Black (2 for Opening Salvo as 2nd Player plus add one with Concentrated fire)

Possible 15 total damage with Black dies able to score 3 damage with a Crit plus hit role (2 points for the crit (Salvation) plus the 1 equals 3!)

Target is only able to redirect 1 point of damage (3 if Advanced projectors) and must toss his Brace in the pile to survive (Intel Officer).

How do you like them apples?

Requires a few contingencies beyond your control (being second player, depending on bid, and first player choosing opening salvo), but when that happens, that's a ton of damage.

Out of curiosity, would the damage total be higher with Heavy Laser Turrets and Intel Officer targeting the brace? That way, if the brace is used (gah), it is still lost, and nothing can be redirected or evaded. If he decides to brace and redirect/evade, the brace is still lost, but only removes one damage from the pool. I haven't run the math, but it seems like either outcome will result in more damage as a whole, especially if the opponent has advanced projectors (which allows dispersion of up to three damage, 1 per hull zone, even in the case of XI-7s). Thoughts?

Neb B plus Salvation plus XI7s plus Intel Officer with concentrated fire and Opening Salvo as the second player.

3 Reds plus 3 Black (2 for Opening Salvo as 2nd Player plus add one with Concentrated fire)

Possible 15 total damage with Black dies able to score 3 damage with a Crit plus hit role (2 points for the crit (Salvation) plus the 1 equals 3!)

Target is only able to redirect 1 point of damage (3 if Advanced projectors) and must toss his Brace in the pile to survive (Intel Officer).

How do you like them apples?

Requires a few contingencies beyond your control (being second player, depending on bid, and first player choosing opening salvo), but when that happens, that's a ton of damage.

Out of curiosity, would the damage total be higher with Heavy Laser Turrets and Intel Officer targeting the brace? That way, if the brace is used (gah), it is still lost, and nothing can be redirected or evaded. If he decides to brace and redirect/evade, the brace is still lost, but only removes one damage from the pool. I haven't run the math, but it seems like either outcome will result in more damage as a whole, especially if the opponent has advanced projectors (which allows dispersion of up to three damage, 1 per hull zone, even in the case of XI-7s). Thoughts?

I don't think people will use the brace to save just one damage, so the heavy turbos indirectly block the use of redirects anyways, which is similar to XI7s. (unless it is the last shot of the round, or saves ship from taking a critical.)

Actually, now that I have said that, the Heavy Turbolaser Turrets is superior to XI7s as they indirectly block both the evade and redirects by severely limiting the brace. I wouldn't even bring Intel Officer with HTTs.

Max damage from Salvation is 8.

HTT: The opponent now has a choice, take 4 damage on one arc, or take 7 damage on two arcs (with evade it drops down to 5 damage, but evade I uncertain, and target would have just exhausted ALL their defence tokens, so WIN!).

XI7: take 3 damage on one arc, one damage on another. (With evade it goes down to three damage total).

So yeah, HTTs are superior to XI7s, by quite a margin, that only increases as the dice go up. (E.g. Once you hit 9 damage, you are getting through someone's shields (except a mon cal).

Hmmmmmm and the MC30 has a Turbolaser Upgrade slot...

Ardaedhel beat me to it. That, plus NK-7 gives the defender the choice of what to discard. Still good, but less useful than, say, Nym's ability where the attacker chooses the discarded token (always the brace , I would think...).

Some other combos (for law and order), by no means original:

• Raider : Screed + Raider II + NK-7/Overload Pulse for defense token counters, or Ion Cannon Batteries to strip nav tokens in conjunction with a larger ship's tractor beams. An Overload Pulse Raider II plus an Avenger ISD has tremendous damage potential.
• Gladiators : Vader + Glad I + Ordnance Experts + ACMs/APTs for insane damage output (real chance at 4-5 hit-crits on Glad broadsides, or 3 hit-crits, 1 double-hit, and 1 accuracy from a Glad forward arc... or potentially both at once, if you have defense tokens to burn with reckless abandon).
• VSDs/ISDs : VSD/ISD + Needa + Turbolaser Reroute = +2 damage to one VSD/ISD attack per round. Warlord + H-9 will still do the same for a Vic.

And my favorite Rebel combo:

• Neb-B refit + Redemption + Raymus + Projection Specialists: Neb-B with 8 engineering per turn (with free Raymus token). Regenerates 3 shields per turn, can send two of them to whoever's hurting. All other ships in the fleet get +1 engineering (+2 with token, given how token round-ups work with Redemption ). Spam engineering on all ships, and you have a shield regeneration battery.

What about VSD with Needa, Turbolaser Reroute, and Warlord? Isn't that +4 guaranteed per turn?

Why yes... yes it is.

Actually, it could be as consistently high as +6 per turn: +2 from burning Needa's evade once, and +2 twice from Warlord, if you have multiple arc shots (or a gunnery team on the Vic). Or, for a one turn mega-burst, it could be +8 if you burn the evade. Not likely to be an optimal scenario often, but if you have to get +2 damage (or +1 with a brace) in order to finish off a pesky enemy ship (or table your opponent), maybe it is...

As exhibit 2 for the fact that I should not be posting so late at night (thanks for the other catch, Edsel), I need to walk this one back, too.

Guaranteeing a 2 hit result with Warlord is contingent on you (1) not rolling a red blank on your target die, and (2) said target die rolling an accuracy result. You can cheat the second requirement with H-9s, which allows you to change a hit or crit result to an accuracy result, then convert that accuracy result to a double-hit. But that would require taking H-9s in the turbolaser upgrade slot, and not Turbolaser Reroute Circuits.

TRC doesn't require any particular die facing to trigger: as long as you spend the evade token, you can change any red die facing (including a blank) to a double-hit, automatically. In that respect, it is probably more valuable as a damage generator than Warlord itself. If you're converting a blank to a double-hit, the damage added is also going to be greater than H-9 + Warlord in most cases (since you're generally converting 1 damage--a hit or a crit--to a double-hit, for a net gain of 1 damage). Converting an accuracy result to a double-hit nets the same raw damage gain (+2 damage), although there was a forum thread a little while back that suggested that in most cases, you probably want to keep the accuracy result from H-9 (since your opponent's use of brace will usually lose you more than 2 damage).

But if you consistently roll at least one red accuracy and one red blank, you could add +2 damage from TRC, and another +2 with Warlord. Unless you're an Ackbared-MC-80, the odds of consistently getting those results consistently isn't going to be very high...

I wouldn't really consider trc on a Vic over warlord + h9 for one major consideration. Needa has to remove one of your redirect tokens for an evade, and that evade is almost always going to get exhausted for the double hit or crit results. So your effectively reducing your defense token count to a single brace and redirect, which isn't all that great if your taking more than a single shot a turn.

There's also the slight bonus that h9 and warlord always deals a damage in anti squadron fire no matter what.

Compared to trc and needa on an ISD, and now you can maintain your defense token count and sustainability, while greatly improving your damage potential NY deleting the contain token. Plus if you get an adequate roll at say medium range, you can opt to keep the evade token and have 4!! Usable defense tokens at the ready. Since needa is a unique, he's gonna be far better value on the isd than the vsd counterpart

How are we getting blue dice at long range?

Defiance lets you add a die of any colour o the attack pool if attacking an already activated ship.

(It's a shame that there isn't an ordinance upgrade slot on the MC80... Could you imagine triggering APT at long range? *troll face*)

And have FFG said something about that allowing dice to be rolled at the wrong ranges? My reading of the rules would be sure, you can add dice of any colour, but you still can't roll them if they're not in range. The advantage over "add one of any die already in your pool" is that say you're at close range but you only have red and blues, you can add a black (or add a blue at medium if you only have red and black, or add a single red to use at long range if you didn't have any).

How are we getting blue dice at long range?

Defiance lets you add a die of any colour o the attack pool if attacking an already activated ship.

(It's a shame that there isn't an ordinance upgrade slot on the MC80... Could you imagine triggering APT at long range? *troll face*)

And have FFG said something about that allowing dice to be rolled at the wrong ranges? My reading of the rules would be sure, you can add dice of any colour, but you still can't roll them if they're not in range. The advantage over "add one of any die already in your pool" is that say you're at close range but you only have red and blues, you can add a black (or add a blue at medium if you only have red and black, or add a single red to use at long range if you didn't have any).

Per FAQ pg 2:

Range only matters if it adds dice to your armament (re: EA and rapid reload)

Paragon and defiance give zero *****

How are we getting blue dice at long range?

Defiance lets you add a die of any colour o the attack pool if attacking an already activated ship.

(It's a shame that there isn't an ordinance upgrade slot on the MC80... Could you imagine triggering APT at long range? *troll face*)

And have FFG said something about that allowing dice to be rolled at the wrong ranges? My reading of the rules would be sure, you can add dice of any colour, but you still can't roll them if they're not in range. The advantage over "add one of any die already in your pool" is that say you're at close range but you only have red and blues, you can add a black (or add a blue at medium if you only have red and black, or add a single red to use at long range if you didn't have any).

Range only matters if it adds dice to your armament (re: EA and rapid reload)

Paragon and defiance give zero *****

Absolutely true, but I wish it was spelled out more clearly in the basic rulebook. I get a lot of weird looks trying to explain this to people. They give me the "well okay" unsure side-eye and just kind of let it slide, but I can tell they're not really convinced but don't want to slow down the game just to be sure.

HTT: The opponent now has a choice, take 4 damage on one arc, or take 7 damage on two arcs (with evade it drops down to 5 damage, but evade I uncertain, and target would have just exhausted ALL their defence tokens, so WIN!).

XI7: take 3 damage on one arc, one damage on another. (With evade it goes down to three damage total).

So yeah, HTTs are superior to XI7s, by quite a margin, that only increases as the dice go up. (E.g. Once you hit 9 damage, you are getting through someone's shields (except a mon cal).

Hmmmmmm and the MC30 has a Turbolaser Upgrade slot...

Agreed. Even at low damage (3-4), HTTs will either result in taking most of the damage where you wanted it (brace or evade), or all of the damage somewhere (redirect), or most of the damage somewhere (evade + redirect). Once that damage spikes above nine, as you've pointed out, there aren't any good options. Five damage with a brace is boring through a shield. Taking nine damage spread with a redirect (or even seven damage due to an evade and then spread around) isn't sustainable.

I wouldn't really consider trc on a Vic over warlord + h9 for one major consideration. Needa has to remove one of your redirect tokens for an evade, and that evade is almost always going to get exhausted for the double hit or crit results. So your effectively reducing your defense token count to a single brace and redirect, which isn't all that great if your taking more than a single shot a turn.

There's also the slight bonus that h9 and warlord always deals a damage in anti squadron fire no matter what.

Compared to trc and needa on an ISD, and now you can maintain your defense token count and sustainability, while greatly improving your damage potential NY deleting the contain token. Plus if you get an adequate roll at say medium range, you can opt to keep the evade token and have 4!! Usable defense tokens at the ready. Since needa is a unique, he's gonna be far better value on the isd than the vsd counterpart

I'm not sure I entirely agree on swapping a redirect with an evade token on a Vic. While two redirects are nice while you have shields, there are other times after shields have dried up when I'd rather have an evade with the potential to cancel two damage. With so many red dice coming our way to bolster ships that prefer long range, I think the evade is more likely to be more valuable, not less. That said, I haven't play-tested yet, so maybe I'll feel differently after a few rounds with just one redirect. I do agree with Warlord + H9 as the more valuable combo overall, though it's a more significant point investment (16 points) than Needa + TRCs (9 points), so that's something that might encourage some to choose it.

I do agree that in most cases (again, without playtesting), I feel like I'd rather have the evade on the ISD than a contain. But I think I'd rather have Heavy Turbolaser Turrets on an ISD than TRCs, even with the evade...