I would say the answer depends on what you mean by "strength." If you're talking about how much the character could squat or bench, I would say a wookie with brawn 3 would out-do a Chadra-fan at 4. It's not that brawn is relative to species, but it is relative, to an extent, to size. It is possible for a humanoid character to achieve brawn 6, but I hope no one would argue that they are therefore as strong as a rancor.

The mechanics of this game are rather abstract and aren't really fit for direct comparisons when other factors aren't all equal (it's one thing to compare a human to a twilek in terms of brawn, but something else to compare a jawa to a bantha). Brawn also does not equal strength. What you might call constitution is rolled into it as well. The mechanics are designed around the dice pool, which is why you don't see anything with more than a 6 without cybernetics--it'd be too many dice. While it might be more realistic for a rancor to have something like a brawn of 8 and no ranks in combat skills, giving him 6 with skills makes the dice pool more manageable. In the same way, though there is a big difference in D&D between the various negative modifiers you can have for an attribute, for the purposes of this game, a one is a one.

Don't look at it as strong as, look at it as strength proportionate to size, an ant can't pick up a paint can like a human can but it can still pick up 10 times its weight.

Clearly you need better ants:

Don't look at it as strong as, look at it as strength proportionate to size, an ant can't pick up a paint can like a human can but it can still pick up 10 times its weight.

Clearly you need better ants:

And I thought giant ants would be crushed by their own weight. But there you go, they actually existed in the 50`s... If I only payed more atention in history class instead of physics!

Meh, physics shmysics... Sci-fi <3

Well, you don't have to purchase ranks in Athletics, or Brawl, or Melee. If the only Brawn skill is Resilience, it could just mean your character has a good immune system and stamina.

This is a problem I have had with many systems that generalize stats vs size... In fantasy games you you characters that are 3 foot tall being just as strong (literally because they can carry and lift the same amount of weight) as a Giant 20' tall. I deal with it though, even though it breaks the suspension of disbelief to a degree for me.

Brawn represents more than Just Brute strength. Brawn seems to encompass parts of Strength, Constitution and some Agility, (yes I said Agility) Not so much the Hand to Eye Coordination that is the Purview of Agility in this game, but the Physical Agility of Gymnastics, martial arts, Speed and other such things. Thus it encompasses Athletics. So while your character with a 3 or 4 Brawn May be accounting for it in Primarily Brute Strength and Size.... Another character like a Chadra-Fan may account for it in Speed and Physical adroitness.

Bruce Lee (or Jet li for that matter) Was hardly the biggest Physically in the sport but no one Doubted his Brawn in taking others down hard.

So Try no to get hung up on what you think the Term Brawn means.

Just google "child body builder" and you'll (unfortunately) get plenty of those...

I personally think that doing that to your child is horrid and should be illegal, but my point was that the kid is most likely tons stronger than I am

I think it is illegal most places.... Hmm, I know he looks stronger, but is he really? That can`t be healthy! He`s probably gonna have lots of health issues way earlier than he should.

Oh he definately will have health issues, which is why I think it should be illegal (although, I've never heard of it being illegal anywhere)

They gotta be on steroids and training way more than is good for them, that`s likely both physical abuse and psychological abuse. That`s got to be illegal most sane places, even in Sweden..

Well, since they're kids, they're kinda naturally on steriods, so I doubt they get extra stuff

But, I don't think it's directly illegal. However, I think anyone could make a case that it is harmful for the child and thus report them for child abuse.

This is a problem I have had with many systems that generalize stats vs size... In fantasy games you you characters that are 3 foot tall being just as strong (literally because they can carry and lift the same amount of weight) as a Giant 20"tall.

<.< >.> I can't imagine it being all that tough for a character 3 feet tall to be able to lift as much as a "giant" 20 inches tall .... ^.^

This is a problem I have had with many systems that generalize stats vs size... In fantasy games you you characters that are 3 foot tall being just as strong (literally because they can carry and lift the same amount of weight) as a Giant 20"tall.

<.< >.> I can't imagine it being all that tough for a character 3 feet tall to be able to lift as much as a "giant" 20 inches tall .... ^.^

This is a problem I have had with many systems that generalize stats vs size... In fantasy games you you characters that are 3 foot tall being just as strong (literally because they can carry and lift the same amount of weight) as a Giant 20"tall.

<.< >.> I can't imagine it being all that tough for a character 3 feet tall to be able to lift as much as a "giant" 20 inches tall .... ^.^

Big species like the Wookiee and the Hutt have 3 in starting Brawn, but smaller species like the Chadra-Fan and the Drall start out with 1 in Brawn.

Along with Wound Treshold (and maybe Soak?) we get an indication of how big and tough or small and fragile species initially are.

But we can of course use XP on Brawn during character creation and make smaller species pretty strong, or at least physically adept and capable.

However, wouldn`t a bigger species still be stronger than a small one, just not as effective at using his or her(or its) physical strength?

If 2 is average for a human, I guess 3 is average for the big Species. Or you could even flavour starting Brawn as weak to average +, I imagine, depending on the character idea....

I guess this is all very open to interpretation, but I am very curious to know what you guys all think.

You're thinking about Brawn incorrectly. A character's Brawn score represents more than just raw strength, it's about knowing how to use your body effectively, regardless if you come by that knowledge innately (naturally strong species) or through work (spending XP), in addition to general fitness. In fact, this is explicitly stated in Brawn's description:

Who's stronger? Well, who has a higher Athletics skill?

Who's less fragile? Well, who has the higher Resilience skill?

Yes, you're putting too much thought into this.

From a narrative point of view, IMO using stats to define the character is the tail wagging the dog. Create the character you want to play.

From a mechanical point of view... it makes more sense to front-load the character with attributes improvements. It's not a big difference, but it exists. I ****ing that it's true, but it is, and my opinion doesn't really change the fact.

Personally, I think your original idea sounds more fun to play, especially as a Herglic (Orcas prone to gambling problems). I also think that it makes slightly more more sense to not throw tons of xp moving attributes from 3 to 4, but it's not a big deal. As mentioned above, mechanically, it may make more sense to buy up Brawn instead because you can always grab Trader and the other skills later, but you can't spend XP on attributes post-creation.

To add to what Lethaldose said..

Which one has a Higher Wound threshold.

Who has the ability to withstand more strain?

There are a lot of factors here that just raw Brawn.

@LethalDose

Thanks for insightful input:)

Hmmm...a Zilkin with a brawn of 6, brawl 5, 4 ranks of frenzied attack, maybe some ranks of true aim, VS a Tyrant Rancor with brawn of 5, that would be interesting

In the OP it almost sounds more like the question should be "during character creation is it better to buy my second specialisation or spend to increase characteristics?" And except for very short campaigns or hyper-specialised characters the answer should be buy up your characteristics.

The base characteristics are a guide to the typical or normal of that species... PC's are not typical. Playing a stereotypical species outside the stereotype is a great recipe for fun.

Choose the species based on the story you want to tell, then use your starting XP to build a solid characteristics base to work from. Any extra little bit left over use for a talent or skill rank or 2 (or extra credits)

A characteristic of 2 is average, 3 is special, 4 is outstanding, 5 is incredible, 6 is super hero, 7 and your a cyborg monster who needs killing when someone gets back.

So that wookiee with 3 is still a strong character but average for the species, the chadra is amazing (in an abstract world) and incredible for their species.

Short version: spend XP on stats, lots on 1 to be incredible at 1 thing, spread out to be good at lots of things.

In the OP it almost sounds more like the question should be "during character creation is it better to buy my second specialisation or spend to increase characteristics?" And except for very short campaigns or hyper-specialised characters the answer should be buy up your characteristics.

No. Sorry if I wasn`t clear in the OP. I don`t care if I have the best character I can have after chargen. I care if the stats match the idea, backstory and concept. The reason I asked about Brawn is that I don`t care much about it, but I still want to be able to tell the GM and the other players that the guy is huge, a big whale guy that towers over the custom combat Droid(pro-wrestler type) and the Wookiee even if his not that "brawny" by the stats, without them cocking an eyebrow and saying it doesn`t make sense by the numbers.... I was afraid I had to sacrifice what I wanted and pictured in my mind to make the big dude make sense..

This thread has been helpful, so I am still going with my BGH/Trader with 3 in both Agility and Presence, still keeping 3 in Brawn.

Thanks, guys:)

Edit: And all three players in the group have big dudes by coincident. So we started joking about if our characters all went into a seedy cantina, noone would be likely to mess with us

But I think we all "just" have 3 in Brawn, so I started thinking and wondering if we could still justify flavouring ourselves as 3 big, bulky scary guys.... Guess we can!

And it would infact be kind of awesom if a little dude like a Chadra-Fan, Jawa or a Drall(not Ewok, the GM hates those guys:p) started a fight with us and proved to be the extremely fit Bruce Lee

version of the race!

Bonus question: Do you give boost- and setback dice for flavour like size, appearance and background?

I give for background in my game all the time, but I might start using them based on character physical description too.

Large size and rough appearance could for example mean Boost dice to coercion against smaller guys, and you might get Setback Dice to either charm or coordination due to the same reasons...

Kind of like situational bonuses in Savage Worlds. What do you think?

A brawn 3 Wookie is just as strong/tough as a human who hits the gym once a week.

A brawn 4 Chadra-fen is going to be as strong as a a human who is in the gym every day.

The world record for the ****** for men up to 56kg (123ilb) is 138kg (304 lb). How many 6 foot 5 people do you know who could ****** 138kg?

A brawn 3 Wookie is just as strong/tough as a human who hits the gym once a week.

A brawn 4 Chadra-fen is going to be as strong as a a human who is in the gym every day.

The world record for the ****** for men up to 56kg (123ilb) is 138kg (304 lb). How many 6 foot 5 people do you know who could ****** 138kg?

But how much does it take for a human or chadra-fan to pull your arm out of its socket if he or she loses in dejarik?..

As mentioned in this thread by someone before, a human can have 6 Brawn, same a Rancor by the rules. Does that make him or her as strong as the Rancor?

I believe more and more, also thanks to answers in this thread, that stats in this game are all relative and that Characteristics especially(and skills to a maybe less extent) are loose and overlapping terms.

But how much does it take for a human or chadra-fan to pull your arm out of its socket if he or she loses in dejarik?..

As mentioned in this thread by someone before, a human can have 6 Brawn, same a Rancor by the rules. Does that make him or her as strong as the Rancor?

What the Rancor has that the human does not, is size — and leverage. If you’re trying to pick up a large boulder, then the Rancor will have an easier time of doing that, compared to a human of the same Brawn. And because of his greater mass combined with that leverage, he’d have an easier time throwing that large boulder a longer distance, than could be done by a human of the same Brawn.

There are cases where smaller size and less mass or leverage are actually an advantage to a high-Brawn character.

In some ways, this kind of gets down to the Superman problem — how does he pick up an entire airplane and throw it around, when the skin of the airplane is actually rather fragile and can’t support that kind of weight in that manner? His hands are so small that he should just rip right through that aircraft skin, because he doesn’t have enough surface area over which to spread his incredibly high strength.

But comics (and movies) usually ignore that problem.

I believe more and more, also thanks to answers in this thread, that stats in this game are all relative and that Characteristics especially(and skills to a maybe less extent) are loose and overlapping terms.

Whatever works for you and your game.

Here's one solution - use Blue and Black dice. These are really the GM tools for 'on the fly' adjustments. I don't need endless adjustments for races because I can just decide what gives a bonus based on a characters species, background, etc.

So if your Brawn 3 wookiee and Brawn 4 ChadraFan are wrestling, give them an opposed Athletics check or something. The wookiee gets a few blue dice to represent his size and leverage and bulk. The ChadraFan gets some black dice because no matter how strong he is, his small stature and light weight will count against him. Maybe add some more blue dice for either side if their background warrants it, like they were a professional wrestler or something.

We recently had a situation where a PC was trying to get hired as a cantina dancer so she could observe the criminal activities there. No 'dancing' skill so we used Charm (Athletics might have worked too). Add blue dice if the character is described as attractive, or is a twi'lek, or has done such work in the past ('I was a feature dancer at 'Jailbirds' on Mos Eisley with the Neutron Pixies!'). You're a wookiee or trandoshan? Seven black dice, unless the cantina has very odd tastes. Gamorrean or astromech? Don't even bother rolling.