Not gonna lie, kind of want to run 2x Onyx pilots with Ions, Tractor Beams, Boost, and EPTs.

While I'm wishing, I may as well also ask for a unicorn. Oh well.

On an unrelated note, the Defender doesn't need Boost to be effective overall, it would just help make its points back better in the 100-point, 75-minute tournament scene. I ran two HLC Onyx pilots alongside two RecSpec Bounty Hunters at 150 points and absolutely murdered something like 5-6 Rebel Ace pilots. I honestly don't remember the other list, I just remember that fight being extremely one-sided after first engagement. Blocking with the Sprays and sniping with the Defenders was brutally effective.

So, now we have boost, EPT, 2nd cannon slot, title that let fire primary and cannon, as long as this cannon is not more then 3 points.

Altogether as a title for 0 points.

Who is going to make the order?

Hey... I love me some Defenders... but that's just broken. Why does it need more than one cannon? I don't think all of these ideas should be bundled together. I'm also a fan of the "linked" fire idea as a single fix.

Its defense is a good offense. With three green (I know, I know... green die suck), 3 hull, and 3 shield, the evade action would be overkill.

You know, I actually lean on green dice when playing Defenders, and I think its stats let you. You can set yourself up for an aggressive move where you know you'll take a punch back, but you get a really good shot. When you're attacked, maybe the greens come through, maybe they don't. If they do, awesome, you're only 0-1 hp down. If you get 3 blanks, maybe your 3 shields are gone, but you're still in the fight. It's not a TIE Interceptor where any damage is scary damage. You have a tall stack of chips you can gamble with. It lets you take risks.

Exactly. With all confidence you can fly your Defender right into the face of another ship and know you're flying away from that exchange. That white K-turn will then give you the upper hand in the next pass if they are dumb enough to give up their action to K-turn with you.

Right. If they K-turn with you, you have an advantage right there, and next turn you can K-turn again to get behind them as they clear stress.

Why does it need more than one cannon?

Tractor Beam

It might ONLY need the tractor Beam. We don't even know what that cannon does yet. I just don't think the Defender is big enough to carry two cannons. That's the Agressor's shtick.

Tie Defenders are equipped with Tractor Beams AND Ion Cannons.

I want to have this in X-Wing, too.

No matter what the beam does

You know I forgot about that.... Once the Tractor Beam comes out, I hope FFG will create a title for the Defender to reflect this. Perhaps a title that gives you a second cannon slot and allows you to fire a second cannon if the first cannon hits.

Hey... I love me some Defenders... but that's just broken. Why does it need more than one cannon?

Because the real Defender had Ion Cannons and a Tractor Beam. And FFG decided to make both of those things Cannon upgrades for some reason.

Edit: Oop, already answered.

/beams maybe should have either had their own or a system slot. But there we go.

I consider the decoy beam analogous to the stealth device anyway.. bleh.

Still, I hope the tractor will be useful on Defenders.... and not only on Scyks... because of 0 damage...

/beams maybe should have either had their own or a system slot. But there we go.

I consider the decoy beam analogous to the stealth device anyway.. bleh.

They should have ... because there are different beam weapons in the SW universe

I wouldn't put an EU on a defender but I wouldn't mind a native boost.

The defenders meant to be the state of the art fighter so it should be a little OP, duel cannons would be nice.

But given the t-70 price why aim low it could have both.

/beams maybe should have either had their own or a system slot. But there we go.

They also shouldn't have been Attacks. Because the whole point of the tractor beam was to hold a fast ship in place so you could shoot the **** out of it.

You can still do that presumably, but now it requires a 2nd ship to do the shooting for you.

I consider the decoy beam analogous to the stealth device anyway.. bleh.

Well, Decoy Beams only worked on warheads.

I forget, did the Decoy Beam even need to be targeted? Or was it more like a field that just happened to take up your Beam slot.

Decoy beams were GREAT on warheads, but also stopped you from being targeted. It screwed AIs and rookie pilots.

It did not need targeting. and when in effect effected everything.

Decoy beams were GREAT on warheads, but also stopped you from being targeted. It screwed AIs and rookie pilots.

It did not need targeting. and when in effect effected everything.

Didn't it spam the HUD radars with swarming points too? I always loved that feature.

It did not need targeting. and when in effect effected everything.

Hmm, I feel like in that case that it shouldn't even be a Beam(especially one that goes in the Cannon slot), because, well, it wasn't actually a Beam at all.

It's funny, if you put Decoy Beam into Wookieepedia, it takes you right to Sensor Jammer.

Jamming Beam was totally a Beam though. Say, +2 Agility against targeted ship. Great for going against turrets(which was exactly what it was for).

The problem again though, being a beam cannon, is not being able to shoot while using it.

Decoy beams were GREAT on warheads, but also stopped you from being targeted. It screwed AIs and rookie pilots.

It did not need targeting. and when in effect effected everything.

Didn't it spam the HUD radars with swarming points too? I always loved that feature.

I don't think it did... Not in XvT.

It did not need targeting. and when in effect effected everything.

Hmm, I feel like in that case that it shouldn't even be a Beam(especially one that goes in the Cannon slot), because, well, it wasn't actually a Beam at all.

It's funny, if you put Decoy Beam into Wookieepedia, it takes you right to Sensor Jammer.

Jamming Beam was totally a Beam though. Say, +2 Agility against targeted ship. Great for going against turrets(which was exactly what it was for).

The problem again though, being a beam cannon, is not being able to shoot while using it.

Jamming beam was actually pretty great against capital ships and light freighters. Also hilarious when jousting. I'd agree that the decoy beam really may as well just be stealth device, or something that stops target locks from working.

My Ideas for Tie Defender fix

Title and Modification

Best Pilots in the Galaxy (similar to prototype pilot for A-wing)

1 Pt

Tie Defender Only

Add and EPT to your upgrade bar. When performing a 3 hard turn you may choose to Tallon Roll instead. Choose after revealing your dial, but before placing the template.

or

Title:

Synchronized Weapons (Like the BTL A4)

1 Pt

Tie Defender Only

When you have a cannon equipped that is less than 3 points, you may immediately fire it after any primary weapon attack.

Why not just release both? There's no reason why only the Firespray gets more than one title available to it.

The only changes I'd make is to only add the EPT if they don't already have it, and make Synchronized weapons free so you can have three defenders with linked Ion Cannons. Also, I wouldn't combine Mod and Title. Not only would the icons not work out (because they don't have any,) it would also greatly reduce their customizability.

Also, I'd have them receive a stress token if they decide to Talon Roll. Seeing as how they get to choose what they do after they reveal the dial, that is massively advantageous to high PS pilots.

Why only 1 ept. They are the best pilots in the Galaxy. The had to survive 20 missions in a Tie, then be evaluated by Vader himself. Why should only A-wings get two EPT's? If anyone in this game should have it the Tie Defenders Pilots should. As for the Tallon Roll, it should be a red maneuver, sorry I screwed that up. Also maybe state when you reveal a White 3 hard turn, you may choose to do a Red Tallon Roll maneuver using the same Hard turn instead. Choose before placing the template

So FFG decided that the beams are more or less covered by pilot abilities and elite upgrades and made the tractor beam a cannon.

And for THIS reason the IG got 2 cannon slots.

Hence this!

My Ideas for Tie Defender fix

Title and Modification

Best Pilots in the Galaxy (similar to prototype pilot for A-wing)

1 Pt

Tie Defender Only

Add and EPT to your upgrade bar. When performing a 3 hard turn you may choose to Tallon Roll instead. Choose after revealing your dial, but before placing the template.

or

Title:

Synchronized Weapons (Like the BTL A4)

1 Pt

Tie Defender Only

When you have a cannon equipped that is less than 3 points, you may immediately fire it after any primary weapon attack.

Why not just release both? There's no reason why only the Firespray gets more than one title available to it.

The only changes I'd make is to only add the EPT if they don't already have it, and make Synchronized weapons free so you can have three defenders with linked Ion Cannons. Also, I wouldn't combine Mod and Title. Not only would the icons not work out (because they don't have any,) it would also greatly reduce their customizability.

Also, I'd have them receive a stress token if they decide to Talon Roll. Seeing as how they get to choose what they do after they reveal the dial, that is massively advantageous to high PS pilots.

Why only 1 ept. They are the best pilots in the Galaxy. The had to survive 20 missions in a Tie, then be evaluated by Vader himself. Why should only A-wings get two EPT's? If anyone in this game should have it the Tie Defenders Pilots should. As for the Tallon Roll, it should be a red maneuver, sorry I screwed that up. Also maybe state when you reveal a White 3 hard turn, you may choose to do a Red Tallon Roll maneuver using the same Hard turn instead. Choose before placing the template

I'm no lore buff, but from a gameplay perspective Titles have always seemed like they should add something unique to the ship. While I agree that the generic Defenders should have an EPT, the ability to have two EPTs is great turf to leave for the A-Wing. Hence why adding the maneuver choice and an EPT to those that don't have it I think makes a great fix. It gives all the pilots a unique bump in capability/power, and buffs the generics who need it the most.

Basically, it buffs the generics more than the aces if you cap it at one EPT.

The defenders meant to be the state of the art fighter so it should be a little OP, duel cannons would be nice.

Why should a ship that's thematically powerful be overpowered relative to its price, as compared to other game elements?

I've been saying this forever: Defenders should have the evade action. They probably needed the boost action.

And they definitely needed the PS3 generic to have an EPT.

I also said they needed 2slights green, but you can get that with the tie engine now.

--

To your question, Its a hard one: Auto will just make them so much more viable against turrets in this meta. I think I'd pick that for raw better survivability.

But then just focus all day. Very little use of boost sadly.

I've been saying this forever: Defenders should have the evade action. They probably needed the boost action.

And they definitely needed the PS3 generic to have an EPT.

I also said they needed 2slights green, but you can get that with the tie engine now.

--

To your question, Its a hard one: Auto will just make them so much more viable against turrets in this meta. I think I'd pick that for raw better survivability.

But then just focus all day. Very little use of boost sadly.

No, it would also help them to get into close combat, since AT helps in range 3 while attacking head-on. Boost is VERY useful after K-Turning to get a new angle for your next K-turn.

The defenders meant to be the state of the art fighter so it should be a little OP, duel cannons would be nice.

Why should a ship that's thematically powerful be overpowered relative to its price, as compared to other game elements?

because defender!

Boost is sufficient.

No need for Autothrusters, because it doesn't need to be a TIE/IN replacement.

The defenders meant to be the state of the art fighter so it should be a little OP, duel cannons would be nice.

Why should a ship that's thematically powerful be overpowered relative to its price, as compared to other game elements?

because defender!

Don't the leading mathwingers states that the Defender is overpriced by about 3-4 points?

Look what we got for the Advanced, and this ship was considered as overpriced by about 2 points.

Love the Advanced fix - its a very good ship and not overpowered, just because it has a reasonable use now.

It won me a few games .... in fact I havn't lost one yet using Advanced - but this includes 2 wins against other Advanced lists.

I still think the Defenders don't need much of a fix. I think a title that reads something like this would be perfect for it:

TIE/x7 - Title -TIE Defender Only - 0 points:

After making a secondary weapon attack that hits, you may cancel all dice results and immediately perform a primary weapon attack against the same target.

This would actually have several great effects for the Defender. First, it would artificially lower the Defender's cost, as suddenly it'd be more practical to take the Flechette Cannon (2 points) or Ion Cannon (3 points) over the Heavy Laser Cannon (7 points), because with the Flechette or Ion Cannons, you'd actually have a potential to do even more damage than the Heavy Laser Cannon (up to 4 damage at range 2-3, up to 5 at range 1), in addition to giving the enemy an inconvenient token such as stress or ion. So, since even the aces like Rexler or Vessery would be encouraged to take the cheaper cannons, this in a way reduces the cost you'd be paying for them by 4-5 points. Also, say the Tractor Beam token lowers the ship's agility dice by one or something along those lines, getting to make the primary attack after the secondary attack rather than before would allow the Defender to capitalize on the Tractor Beam token's effect in the same round that the Defender deals the token. This is also an excellent thematic fix, as Defenders were supposed to have that linked-fire system, and were also supposed to be able to use Tractor Beams to hold their enemies in place while they opened up with their weaponry.

To me, this is the perfect solution. The Defender doesn't need Boost or Evade actions. Its action economy is already rough enough. What it needs is for the cheaper cannons to be more practical for it to take than the Heavy Laser Cannon so you wouldn't be paying such a ridiculous amount for your ship.

I still think the Defenders don't need much of a fix. I think a title that reads something like this would be perfect for it:

TIE/x7 - Title -TIE Defender Only - 0 points:

After making a secondary weapon attack that hits, you may cancel all dice results and immediately perform a primary weapon attack against the same target.

This would actually have several great affects for the Defender. First, it would artificially lower the Defender's cost, as suddenly it'd be more practical to take the Flechette Cannon (2 points) or Ion Cannon (3 points) over the Heavy Laser Cannon (7 points), because with the Flechette or Ion Cannons, you'd actually have a potential to do even more damage than the Heavy Laser Cannon (up to 4 damage at range 2-3, up to 5 at range 1), in addition to giving the enemy an inconvenient token such as stress or ion. So, since even the aces like Rexler or Vessery would be encouraged to take the cheaper cannons, this in a way reduces the cost you'd be paying for them by 4-5 points. Also, say the Tractor Beam token lowers the ship's agility dice by one or something along those lines, getting to make the primary attack after the secondary attack rather than before would allow the Defender to capitalize on the Tractor Beam token's effect in the same round that the Defender deals the token. This is also an excellent thematic fix, as Defenders were supposed to have that linked-fire system, and were also supposed to be able to use Tractor Beams to hold their enemies in place while they opened up with their weaponry.

To me, this is the perfect solution. The Defender doesn't need Boost or Evade actions. Its action economy is already rough enough. What it needs is for the cheaper cannons to be more practical for it to take than the Heavy Laser Cannon so you wouldn't be paying such a ridiculous amount for your ship.

This idea is not bad. If you'd add a -4 point cost for cannon upgrades, I'd probably buy it.

Even I the defenders biggest fanboy admit the defender is badly over costed so either it gets three or four points worth of stats and abilities or a similar discount on Canon's.