FFG had a missed opportunity. They should have Vader discard officer cards to have him trigger his ability. Or bring up an additional commander and discard that commander to do something cool.

This won't work, and I'm glad they didn't do it this way. Just stop and consider the list-building ramifications of this... not only are you paying for Vader, but you're paying for the officers to kill just to kick his ability. Plus think about every other Admiral in the game... all of their abilities are constant. Vader works only if you buy all the officers for him to kill, and place them on every ship in your fleet. He would be useless for any list that didn't put officers on those ships. It makes him less worth it than Motti.

Vader's current ability is thematic. Vader squeezes out success at the expense of defenses. By making ships and equipment weaker on the drive to victory he is treating the fleet as expendable. Works for me.

Yeah - i think Vaders ability is thematic enough.

It's spot in IMO, and extremely good. I couldnt be more pleased with him...i suspect he will be my "go to" Admiral for ISD lists, with some competition from Motti. Screed will remain my #1 for GSD's. Motti will be #1 if i run a "HP skew" list....massed SD's of any sort designed to just tank everything and win via attrition.

Tarkin can play anything he likes.

I'm very intrigued by Ozzel, but haven't used him yet and can't quite figure out if he is worth losing the benefits of the other admirals. He's certainly uselss with VSD's, but potentially excellent with the others.

I don't like Vader. I proxied him in a couple of battles (with a proxy ISD) last week, and despite the fun of krumpin' rebels, the ships I was using do that anyway.

I would much rather use a combination of Tarkin + weapons/defence liaison officers to cover the glaring hole of manoeuvrability when flying turd-like VSDs than having a few extra dice as they hit like a truck anyway, but need help getting that punch to land in the right place.

I don't think I would use Ozzel either, as my main ships of the line are VSDs. It's still Tarkin or Screed all the way with me, depending on whether I want flexibility or punch.

How were you proxying the Star Destroyer without a clear top-down view of the base? That's what kept me from doing similar.

FWIW, I don't quite want to use Vader either. There are other upgrades that I can use to re-roll dice, and often my dice rolls are not so terrible I have a lot of blanks. If only more ships had more than 3 defense tokens... Maybe I should take him next time on an ISD/VSD/VSD list to see what comes out of it.

I think it might be worth using Ozzel on Gladiators, where right when you're passing you can go down to speed 1. He'd be useful as well on the Raiders too, for the same reason (or being easier to match speed with whatever target you are following). I don't think he's that useful on ISDs... and if FFG ever does a SSD, put him there only on your own peril

I assume they proxy by using the (corrected) dimensions for large ships given in the rules.

I assume they proxy by using the (corrected) dimensions for large ships given in the rules.

Need the correct arcs too, thats the most important thing.

FFG had a missed opportunity. They should have Vader discard officer cards to have him trigger his ability. Or bring up an additional commander and discard that commander to do something cool.

I don't know that they did. I think they quite cleverly included this very detail.

The "Injured Crew" damage card forces you to choose and discard a defense token, so if discarding/spending defense tokens represents harm to your crew, it's reasonable to suggest that Vader's ability involves strangling the nearest uniformed british guy to inspire the gunners to aim better.

We're Space Nazi's not British guys, thank you.

correction, we are British Space Nazi's

Hehe. The Galactic Empire a good mixture out of the British Empire, the Japanese Empire and the German Reich ... only the best of the best so to say ... anything missing? Do we also have aspects of the Roman Empire?

Strong Roman aspects, yes. The fall of the Senate and rise of the Emperor was pretty much a pure copy of the fall of Republican Rome and rise of the Roman Empire (though with more space wizards, granted).

Also the Empire uses Legions (Roman), several Roman names for ships classes (Gladiator, Secutor, Venator etc, and the Imperial-class was originally the Imperator)). Probably more things i can't think of right now!

Strong Roman aspects, yes. The fall of the Senate and rise of the Emperor was pretty much a pure copy of the fall of Republican Rome and rise of the Roman Empire (though with more space wizards, granted).

Also the Empire uses Legions (Roman), several Roman names for ships classes (Gladiator, Secutor, Venator etc, and the Imperial-class was originally the Imperator)). Probably more things i can't think of right now!

The way the Emperor took over the Senat had very close aspects with the 3rd Reich and Hitlers way to take over the power. It had so many similarities, the agitated/self-made menace, the "Ermaechtigungsgesetz" to take over full power. I am still in doubt regarding his fork lightning though, not sure if I am mixing up history class with Iron Skies here.

Mind, I am writing this as a german so have lengthly had to go through with his rise to power more than once during school.. after four or five consecutive classes with this subject, everything probably looks like nazis taking over ..

True...i also covered Hitlers rise in school, and you're not wrong. The Roman comparison is more specifically that it was a faltering Republic with a senate that become too big for it's own good, turning into an expansionist Empire, rather than the exact method of how that happened.

So....we're currently going with "British Space Nazi Romans" with probably some other bits.

Semi-related, History would have been way more interesting if the dictators i had to study (Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini) had all been Sith.

Hes alright but if you are going to invest that many points in your commander you might as well go with Tarkin who brings much greater flexibility. Leading shots and Ordinance Experts can give comparable effects for most ships without sacrificing defense.

I think I'm leaning this direction, too... or at least more open to considering Tarkin than I've been in the past. If you find yourself rerolling just one dice per turn with Vader, you can get the same result by passing out free CF tokens, so why not avail yourself of free repair, nav, and squadron tokens, too?

That said, Vader's awfully tempting with certain ship combos. Three GSD Is with CF dials, plus Ordnance Experts, plus Vader, plus a potential CF token on top of that, means a broadside is going to end up rolling 4-5 hit-crits often. With ACMs, that's 10-12 damage in a volley (even braced, that's still 5 or 6 damage). With APTs, that's 8-10 damage + a face-up damage card (4-5 + crit card even if braced). Multiply by three...

I will say it again. Vader is good with throwing lots of dice.

When you throw lots of dice averages will occur. Sometimes you may not need him, sometimes that 3 red accuracy and 2 blue accuracy roll will require you to want to use him.

Law of averages. That's Vader's niche

As others have said Vader benefits players that roll below average. If you normally roll above average or are in the dice gods favor then Vader won't provide much.

As others have said Vader benefits players that roll below average. If you normally roll above average or are in the dice gods favor then Vader won't provide much.

I don't think anybody "normally" rolls above or below average in reality. Confirmation bias might make it SEEM that way, but play enough games and it'll even out.

If not, get to Vegas ASAP!

@Extropia I will never go to Vegas. I roll about middle of the road to low. So for me Lord Vader stands a strong chance making it in my Fleet. I tend to go for anything that will increase my odds so re-rolling is a big thing for me.

I will say it again. Vader is good with throwing lots of dice.

When you throw lots of dice averages will occur. Sometimes you may not need him, sometimes that 3 red accuracy and 2 blue accuracy roll will require you to want to use him.

Law of averages. That's Vader's niche

Never knew Vader was a mathematician.

I assume they proxy by using the (corrected) dimensions for large ships given in the rules.

Need the correct arcs too, thats the most important thing.

No, you don't. Casual play needs only a ballpark 'correct' dimension. Given the dimensions of large ship base in the rulebooks and a 'best guess' of the dimensions from a picture of the base, I can get it accurate enough on a piece of paper for casual play. We are pushing toy spaceships around my dinner table while drinking beer and eating dumplings, not playing in the Superbowl.

While millimetre-accuracy may be in demand and appropriate in your local tournament meta-environment, I live in the middle of nowhere in western China, so I can do whatever the hell my (only) opponent and I agree on.

Vader seems like a great choice when fishin for an accuracy symbol on blue dice. Say on the Front arc of an ISD, or any Raider... Nothing quite like locking down the brace.

Yes, their is no need to fear Vaders fleet.

Vader brings the cow bell. Mor Cowbell!

Strong Roman aspects, yes. The fall of the Senate and rise of the Emperor was pretty much a pure copy of the fall of Republican Rome and rise of the Roman Empire (though with more space wizards, granted).

Also the Empire uses Legions (Roman), several Roman names for ships classes (Gladiator, Secutor, Venator etc, and the Imperial-class was originally the Imperator)). Probably more things i can't think of right now!

The way the Emperor took over the Senat had very close aspects with the 3rd Reich and Hitlers way to take over the power. It had so many similarities, the agitated/self-made menace, the "Ermaechtigungsgesetz" to take over full power. I am still in doubt regarding his fork lightning though, not sure if I am mixing up history class with Iron Skies here.

Mind, I am writing this as a german so have lengthly had to go through with his rise to power more than once during school.. after four or five consecutive classes with this subject, everything probably looks like nazis taking over ..

Problem was that George Lucas tried to put modern politics into the fall of the senate. To be piratical it is hard to determine when Rome moved from Republic ruled by a congregation to an Empire ruled by a Monarch. If Lucas made the story closer to the Roman story and not try to make GWB is a Militant overlord helbent on destroying democracy through hidden means it could have been a better story.

As others have said Vader benefits players that roll below average. If you normally roll above average or are in the dice gods favor then Vader won't provide much.

I don't think anybody "normally" rolls above or below average in reality. Confirmation bias might make it SEEM that way, but play enough games and it'll even out.

If not, get to Vegas ASAP!

That's not how statistics work. The entire population as a whole should roll pretty close to a perfect mathematical average, but there will of course be outliers where an individual rolls below or above that average.

It would be anomalous if there weren't outliers.

As others have said Vader benefits players that roll below average. If you normally roll above average or are in the dice gods favor then Vader won't provide much.

I don't think anybody "normally" rolls above or below average in reality. Confirmation bias might make it SEEM that way, but play enough games and it'll even out.

If not, get to Vegas ASAP!

That's not how statistics work. The entire population as a whole should roll pretty close to a perfect mathematical average, but there will of course be outliers where an individual rolls below or above that average.

It would be anomalous if there weren't outliers.

This is true for individual rolls or might be true for a handful of them, but over the course of many games your rolls will come out average as well. I think that was the point Extropia was refering to, as there is nothing like a "dice god" (*sounds of rolling thunders in a clear sky*), and there is no player that rolls below average over the course of his or her gaming life.

Precisely. There are always outliers...there has to be really. But i would be incredibly shocked if there was somebody that consistently, throughout all their gaming life, rolled noticeably below average overall, as long as they played a statistically significant number of games.

Confirmation bias is a killer. People always remember the games they rolled badly more than the ones they rolled well.