And the atk:def differential means they'd do approximately sweet fa for damage.But you have twenty of them...There could be a ship that is 1, 1, 1, 1, costs 5 points, and has every maneuver in the game as a Green and I still wouldn't run it because the stat-line is so bad.
40 hit points? I'd run that.
Hypothetical: Worst dial, best stats.
I dunno, with a couple of them blocking and half of the rest vying for range one shots there's bound to be some damage getting through, especially on the low agility ships. 20 ships will grind any list to a halt, even slamming k-wings. Even Phantoms can be shut down with that much coverage of the field.
And the atk:def differential means they'd do approximately sweet fa for damage.
But you have twenty of them...There could be a ship that is 1, 1, 1, 1, costs 5 points, and has every maneuver in the game as a Green and I still wouldn't run it because the stat-line is so bad.
40 hit points? I'd run that.
hope its a scum ship then ill drop a few and add Feedback Array and Deadman Switch
The worst dial in X-wing will have to easily be the Y-wing/Scum-wing.
Gonna respectfully disagree.
Comparing the Dials Head to Head:
STRAIGHT: Bwing/Ywing/Hwk (1-2 Green, 3 White, 4 Red); Shuttle (1-2 Green, 3 White) - SHUTTLE Worst;
BANK: Y-Wing (1-3 White); B-wing/Hwk/Shuttle (1 Green, 2 White, 3 Red) - All Ships Even.
TURN: Bwing (1 Red, 2 White) Y-Wing (2 White, 3 Red) Hwk (2 White); Shuttle (2 Red) - Shuttle Worst
KTURN: Bwing (2 red) Y-wing (4 Red); Hwk and Shuttle (NONE) Shuttle and Hwk worse
Total Maneuvers: B-wing/Y-Wing (15) Hwk (12) Shuttle (12) Shuttle and Hwk
Green Maneuvers: Ywing (2) Bwing/Hwk/Shuttle (4) Y-WING worst
Red Maneuvers: Bwing (6) Ywing (4) Hwk (3) Shuttle (5) Bwing worst
So in only 1 of 7 categories - Green Maneuvers - The Ywing proves to have a worst option.
I can also argue that without a Turret ability - The Shuttle is by far worse, especially with no Kturn ability.
40% of the Shuttle and Bwings moves are red while it's around 25% for the Ywing and Hwk.
Head to head, the Bwing and Ywing can K-turn to get behind a Shuttle or Hwk and kill them all day long.
Big bases don't stop ships like the YT1300/2400, Decimator, Firespray, or Aggressor from being useful ships - Because they have good to great dials.
In the Shuttle's case - Stats and cost are fine, but the Dial is the only thing keeping it from being a better ship.
You can't jousting value a dial. If you do you are going to have to give more value to banks and turns than you do by simply counting up the number of greens and comparing to the number of reds. A pair of green banks is significantly more valuable than white or red banks (You also forgot the stop on the shuttle).
A shuttle can still face a new direction and shake off stress, same for a B-wing, a Y-wing cannot change direction and lose stress. (not without help from a little droid). Your formula needs a lot of work if you are going to try and math the dial, you analysis as of now is insufficient.
Edited by MarinealverA shuttle can still face a new direction and shake off stress, same for a B-wing, a Y-wing cannot change direction and lose stress. (not without help from a little droid). Your formula needs a lot of work if you are going to try and math the dial, you analysis as of now is insufficient.
Neither can a defender shed stress and face a new direction.
The shuttle and the Hwk have very few maneuvres at all. Both lack a K, both have only one hard turn, (the Y has at least a choice) - so the shuttle and Hwk are out of the battle for a long time when turning, mostly dead with someone on theur tail as they cannot shake them off. Both are much more predictable than an Y.
A shuttle can still face a new direction and shake off stress, same for a B-wing, a Y-wing cannot change direction and lose stress. (not without help from a little droid). Your formula needs a lot of work if you are going to try and math the dial, you analysis as of now is insufficient.
Neither can a defender shed stress and face a new direction.
The shuttle and the Hwk have very few maneuvres at all. Both lack a K, both have only one hard turn, (the Y has at least a choice) - so the shuttle and Hwk are out of the battle for a long time when turning, mostly dead with someone on theur tail as they cannot shake them off. Both are much more predictable than an Y.
A defender can flip around but yeah that doesn't give as much options when positioning your firing arc as to turn to the sides. However I don't necessarily like K-turns unless I am trying to joust. Both ships have bad dials especially when stressed but you can count on the HWK and shuttle making green maneuvers to shed the stress. What makes the Y-wing so unpredictable is because the dial is so bad under stressed that player is considering to just make white moves with it and forgo any actions.
Edited by MarinealverWe can as well stop pretending that Y-Wings are flown without astromech. An R2 gives 6 green maneuvers, including turns and banks, and costs 1 point. In that sense, a 18 points Y-Wing is a wildly different ship when compared to a 19 points Y-Wing.
Also, nobody mentions the K-Wing's dial, with it's absence of koiograns, and a grand total of 11 maneuvers, one less than the lambda shuttle and same amount of greens. How does the SLAM action affect the dial? It surely adds extra movility, but at the cost of not dealing any damage for a whole round.
There could be a ship that is 1, 1, 1, 1, costs 5 points, and has every maneuver in the game as a Green and I still wouldn't run it because the stat-line is so bad.
But you have twenty of them...
40 hit points? I'd run that.
And auto-lose to anyone with Assault Missiles. How could you damage anybody with 1 Attack? How can you not die with only 2 HP and 1 Agility?
I guess this kind of proves my point that stats, dial, and cost can't be evaluated independently of each other.
Nope. It's not automatic loss. Firstly, thanks to them being 2HP ships Assault Missiles won't knock a few off the board. You'd need to spam Assault Missiles to butcher the endless horde, which means you'd die to anything that's not an endless horde of 1/1/1/1s. Furthermore, anything that can spam Assault Missles has low enough agility to be vunerable to the 20 odd attacks (some at 2 dice because R1) which means it might even be a fair fight.
Automatic Loss means you just lose. By default. The only form of that that exists is disqualification.
We can as well stop pretending that Y-Wings are flown without astromech.
Just because you always use astromechs doesn't mean everyone else does.
LOL! I always run a Droid with my Y wings and X wings, there is something about that Droid slot that calls to me and I can't leave it empty.
The worst dial in X-wing will have to easily be the Y-wing/Scum-wing.
Gonna respectfully disagree.
Comparing the Dials Head to Head:
STRAIGHT: Bwing/Ywing/Hwk (1-2 Green, 3 White, 4 Red); Shuttle (1-2 Green, 3 White) - SHUTTLE Worst;
BANK: Y-Wing (1-3 White); B-wing/Hwk/Shuttle (1 Green, 2 White, 3 Red) - All Ships Even.
TURN: Bwing (1 Red, 2 White) Y-Wing (2 White, 3 Red) Hwk (2 White); Shuttle (2 Red) - Shuttle Worst
KTURN: Bwing (2 red) Y-wing (4 Red); Hwk and Shuttle (NONE) Shuttle and Hwk worse
Total Maneuvers: B-wing/Y-Wing (15) Hwk (12) Shuttle (12) Shuttle and Hwk
Green Maneuvers: Ywing (2) Bwing/Hwk/Shuttle (4) Y-WING worst
Red Maneuvers: Bwing (6) Ywing (4) Hwk (3) Shuttle (5) Bwing worst
So in only 1 of 7 categories - Green Maneuvers - The Ywing proves to have a worst option.
I can also argue that without a Turret ability - The Shuttle is by far worse, especially with no Kturn ability.
40% of the Shuttle and Bwings moves are red while it's around 25% for the Ywing and Hwk.
Head to head, the Bwing and Ywing can K-turn to get behind a Shuttle or Hwk and kill them all day long.
Big bases don't stop ships like the YT1300/2400, Decimator, Firespray, or Aggressor from being useful ships - Because they have good to great dials.
In the Shuttle's case - Stats and cost are fine, but the Dial is the only thing keeping it from being a better ship.
You can't jousting value a dial. If you do you are going to have to give more value to banks and turns than you do by simply counting up the number of greens and comparing to the number of reds. A pair of green banks is significantly more valuable than white or red banks (You also forgot the stop on the shuttle).
A shuttle can still face a new direction and shake off stress, same for a B-wing, a Y-wing cannot change direction and lose stress. (not without help from a little droid). Your formula needs a lot of work if you are going to try and math the dial, you analysis as of now is insufficient.
This is not a formula as much as a very simple comparison. Here are the 2 basic things I think it comes down to:
- Shuttle makes a hard turn with a Stress. Y-Wing Makes the same hard turn with no stress.
- Shuttle Cannot immediately turn 180 to face trailing ships; The Y-Wing can.
In terms of available fixes - the Shuttle purchases a 4 point Engine upgrade to become more maneuverable; Y-wing purchases a 1 point R2 Astromech to add 6 green maneuvers.
The R2 comes with the Y-wing as an immediate fix. The Engine Upgrade is not even packaged with the Shuttle.
The worst dial in X-wing will have to easily be the Y-wing/Scum-wing.
Gonna respectfully disagree.
Comparing the Dials Head to Head:
STRAIGHT: Bwing/Ywing/Hwk (1-2 Green, 3 White, 4 Red); Shuttle (1-2 Green, 3 White) - SHUTTLE Worst;
BANK: Y-Wing (1-3 White); B-wing/Hwk/Shuttle (1 Green, 2 White, 3 Red) - All Ships Even.
TURN: Bwing (1 Red, 2 White) Y-Wing (2 White, 3 Red) Hwk (2 White); Shuttle (2 Red) - Shuttle Worst
KTURN: Bwing (2 red) Y-wing (4 Red); Hwk and Shuttle (NONE) Shuttle and Hwk worse
Total Maneuvers: B-wing/Y-Wing (15) Hwk (12) Shuttle (12) Shuttle and Hwk
Green Maneuvers: Ywing (2) Bwing/Hwk/Shuttle (4) Y-WING worst
Red Maneuvers: Bwing (6) Ywing (4) Hwk (3) Shuttle (5) Bwing worst
So in only 1 of 7 categories - Green Maneuvers - The Ywing proves to have a worst option.
I can also argue that without a Turret ability - The Shuttle is by far worse, especially with no Kturn ability.
40% of the Shuttle and Bwings moves are red while it's around 25% for the Ywing and Hwk.
Head to head, the Bwing and Ywing can K-turn to get behind a Shuttle or Hwk and kill them all day long.
Big bases don't stop ships like the YT1300/2400, Decimator, Firespray, or Aggressor from being useful ships - Because they have good to great dials.
In the Shuttle's case - Stats and cost are fine, but the Dial is the only thing keeping it from being a better ship.
You can't jousting value a dial. If you do you are going to have to give more value to banks and turns than you do by simply counting up the number of greens and comparing to the number of reds. A pair of green banks is significantly more valuable than white or red banks (You also forgot the stop on the shuttle).
A shuttle can still face a new direction and shake off stress, same for a B-wing, a Y-wing cannot change direction and lose stress. (not without help from a little droid). Your formula needs a lot of work if you are going to try and math the dial, you analysis as of now is insufficient.
USCGrad is right. The Y-wing's dial (without an astromech to help) isn't great, but it's nowhere near as bad as the Lambda's. The Y-wing has more difficulty shedding stress, but the Lambda is much more likely to gain it. And more importantly, the shuttle lacks any quick mechanism for turning around; it takes three rounds and a ridiculously large area to do it.