In the wave 8 Guri discussion thread, it was posited that Guri is a poor candidate for Push the limit since the starviper only has access to green one banks and straights up to speed 3. However, this is the exact same as the T-70, and everyone has proclaimed the brilliance of Push the limit there.

So I ask, what is the difference?

Sigh... This seems like you are just trolling now.

I'm not sure what you hate so much about PtL/BB-8 that you feel the need to constantly try to make a case it sucks. Whatever it is, let it go. Please.

I think there have been tons of reasons presented to your OP.

1) Ship Durability

2) Low PS

3) Loss of normal action

4) instability of Cloaking Device

5) Positional requirement of her ability

And I'll add:

6) Cost. The Guri you are talking about is easily over 40 points..

Guri + Virago + PtL + AdvSensors = 37 by itself, without cloaking, stygium, or Thrusters

Wedge + PtL + BB-8 = 34

7) One can have Biggs, the other can't.

I think we're in the middle of a design shift where we are indeed getting more pilot abilities with "strength of design" at their core. Guri was the start, but pilots like Miranda, Poe, and Dengar all fit the bill I think. We are also at an unprecedented level of customisation due to the wealth of upgrades available AND their competitive validity.

You guys are missing the point here. With a cloaking device, and stygium, Guri can do the same combo but better, as she isn't married to moving sideways. Stygium triggers off the decloak, followed by push, green maneuver clears the stress, and you can actually go one step further and get BETTER actin economy than Poe by boosting or rolling into range 1. That's 4 actions, no stress.

Every other turn, forced to spend that other turn cloaked and not shooting, and there's a good chance the cloaking device will short out and the whole thing breaks down. It's a fun combo but not a powerful one.

Besides, Guri PTL stress clearing is perfectly possible anyway with Advanced Sensors. You don't see it much because the StarViper's greens are merely passable (same as the T-70's I think) whereas the rest of its dial is wondrously good, especially with Advanced Sensors. It's the IG-2000's level of tricksyness married to the B-wing's close range skill. Shackle it to green and you might as well fly a Kihraxz.

I personally always give Guri Veteran Instincts and Advanced Sensors. Other upgrades vary depending on the squad.

BB-8 is a good astromech on any high PS X-wing, PTL BB-8 means that whenever you BB-8 you get another action. Three points for repositioning and possibly Focus Target Lock on every shot? Not bad at all.

In all honesty I do like AT/AS/PtL Guri just fine but she still needs the title and then I may as well throw on an Illicit....she tends to get a bit too expensive that way. I prefer Lone Wolf and Autothrusters and done. She has a habit of making her points back pretty solidly.

Try her with Outmaneuver, AT, and FCS. She absolutely mulches TLT carriers and fatties alike

Well, one was made by a phermone spouting prince with delusions of grandeur, and the other was made somewhere in an ewok villiage.

Well, one was made by a phermone spouting prince with delusions of grandeur, and the other was made somewhere in an ewok villiage.

Good one! But was this just a funny little quip, or is there some source for Poe's parentage? Is he the love child of Leai and Wicket the ewok? They were alone for a while in that romantic forest...

You guys are missing the point here. With a cloaking device, and stygium, Guri can do the same combo but better, as she isn't married to moving sideways. Stygium triggers off the decloak, followed by push, green maneuver clears the stress, and you can actually go one step further and get BETTER actin economy than Poe by boosting or rolling into range 1. That's 4 actions, no stress.

You missing the point let me clarify this for you.

As I have said in recent posts the meta is not dominating but turrets but by hard mitigation. With this combo you can guarantee no less than 1 evade at worst but average will be closer to 2. In other words you will be dodging 2 hits an attack more than a single hit per attack. C-3PO + falcon title allowed for 2 hard damage mitigation per turn. Poe will be per Attack! AKA if you not rolling 3 hits you get nothing.

The astromech slot does open it up for even more possibilities. Sure BB-8 or R2 Astro can make it a PTL arc dodger but really I am look at R2-D2. So you need atleast 3 hits an attack to do a damage. Well R2-D2 will mean that you have to do 3 hits TWICE per turn to do a single point of damage that sticks. Soontir is the only ship that could come close to this level of hard damage mitigation.

I'm seeing a Poe + Han list coming up. Both have VI Poe has Autothrusters & R2-D2 and Han has C-3PPO + title and EU and you could throw in a defensive crew like Chewbacca or even throw in gunner or Luke. Sure the Falcon got nerfed if it goes to time but these list have such high damage mitigation you will not be able to focus the falcon down to half or focus down Poe. Both will be hitting you hard and you won't have anything to take them down.

Both will be hitting you hard and you won't have anything to take them down.

Carnor, Palob, most forms of direct damage and ships with firing arcs all say hi. Furthermore, that Poe for example is going to be the most predictable puppy in the shop if he's cruising around on greens with only his vanilla action. Even the turrets might be able to Range 1-2 In Arc him.

I also don't get why you'd give him R2-D2 when R5-P9 exists.

In all honesty I do like AT/AS/PtL Guri just fine but she still needs the title and then I may as well throw on an Illicit....she tends to get a bit too expensive that way. I prefer Lone Wolf and Autothrusters and done. She has a habit of making her points back pretty solidly.

PTL isn't my favorite build for her, since she already has pretty solid action economy and Predator offers a similar benefit without stress. But there's nothing wrong with running PTL if that's what you like, and the BR/Boost combo works really well for her.

I was not a fan of PtL Guri when I flew her. I found I would always use one of my actions to reposition because I wasn't taking turns.

That said, the reasons the same combo is better on Poe.

Higher PS

Poe loses A LOT from being denied a focus token. BB-8 and PtL greatly minimizes that.

The other reason not to give guri the cloak is so that palob can take it

Easy! Poe has boy bits and Guri has girl bits.

But Guri's a robot...

But Guri's a robot...

Read the book, she comes fully equiped *wink wink*

Both will be hitting you hard and you won't have anything to take them down.

Carnor, Palob, most forms of direct damage and ships with firing arcs all say hi. Furthermore, that Poe for example is going to be the most predictable puppy in the shop if he's cruising around on greens with only his vanilla action. Even the turrets might be able to Range 1-2 In Arc him.

I also don't get why you'd give him R2-D2 when R5-P9 exists.

Yeah, R5-P9 is a point cheaper, doesn't limit your movement, and lets you get some more mileage out of that focus token that Poe has been hanging on to for the entire round. R5-P9 goes with Poe like R7 goes with Tarn.

Running R2-D2 is a good way to end up blocked and without a focus token to fuel his ability.

I also don't get why you'd give him R2-D2 when R5-P9 exists.

Maybe not all of us own the Transport?

I also don't get why you'd give him R2-D2 when R5-P9 exists.

Maybe not all of us own the Transport?

That and R2 still works when you get blocked. Overall I still prefer R5-P9, but I don't think R2-D2 is unreasonable.

Well, one was made by a phermone spouting prince with delusions of grandeur, and the other was made somewhere in an ewok villiage.

Good one! But was this just a funny little quip, or is there some source for Poe's parentage? Is he the love child of Leai and Wicket the ewok? They were alone for a while in that romantic forest...

Poe was actually conceived during that celebration, yes. The child of Shara Bey and Kes Dameron.

Can we please keep Episode 7 spoiler information off this forum until December? Or at least use the spoiler tags and clearly mark it.

Both will be hitting you hard and you won't have anything to take them down.

Carnor, Palob, most forms of direct damage and ships with firing arcs all say hi. Furthermore, that Poe for example is going to be the most predictable puppy in the shop if he's cruising around on greens with only his vanilla action. Even the turrets might be able to Range 1-2 In Arc him.

I also don't get why you'd give him R2-D2 when R5-P9 exists.

Yeah, R5-P9 is a point cheaper, doesn't limit your movement, and lets you get some more mileage out of that focus token that Poe has been hanging on to for the entire round. R5-P9 goes with Poe like R7 goes with Tarn.

Running R2-D2 is a good way to end up blocked and without a focus token to fuel his ability.

Good point. You could put R2-D2 on Red Leader (or is it Blue Leader I forgot ). Get those two and back by two Gold TLTs and you have the immortals.

Both will be hitting you hard and you won't have anything to take them down.

Carnor, Palob, most forms of direct damage and ships with firing arcs all say hi. Furthermore, that Poe for example is going to be the most predictable puppy in the shop if he's cruising around on greens with only his vanilla action. Even the turrets might be able to Range 1-2 In Arc him.

I also don't get why you'd give him R2-D2 when R5-P9 exists.

Yeah, R5-P9 is a point cheaper, doesn't limit your movement, and lets you get some more mileage out of that focus token that Poe has been hanging on to for the entire round. R5-P9 goes with Poe like R7 goes with Tarn.

Running R2-D2 is a good way to end up blocked and without a focus token to fuel his ability.

Good point. You could put R2-D2 on Red Leader (or is it Blue Leader I forgot ). Get those two and back by two Gold TLTs and you have the immortals.

The one that gets an evade token when he loses a shield each turn? That's Red Ace.

Blue Ace is the one that can use a hard-1 template when boosting.

Can we please keep Episode 7 spoiler information off this forum until December? Or at least use the spoiler tags and clearly mark it.

Oh you, you're such a card and one number past my preferred status in Blue Squadron.

No, I won't mark that particular one, because it's not an Episode VII spoiler. This information is covered in Shattered Empire. So, go. Unspoil thyself in a publically available comic that you can probably also find in several digital locations.

In the wave 8 Guri discussion thread, it was posited that Guri is a poor candidate for Push the limit since the starviper only has access to green one banks and straights up to speed 3. However, this is the exact same as the T-70, and everyone has proclaimed the brilliance of Push the limit there.

So I ask, what is the difference?

Calm down, Eddie.

I think unless you're using BB-8, PtL on Poe is not ideal- I would prefer Lone Wolf personally to open up his moves a little more and make his defense even more crazy, but it depends on your list's context.

Guri is less than ideal to me- she would be so good if she had a good PS but it's so low that VI doesn't even help that much. She'll struggle with aces and when she's tricked out she's Corran price but nowhere near Corran in PS and ability.

What is the difference between Guri and Poe?

One is scum, the other is rebel scum.