That´s your problem. Like in this thread, you ask other people what to keep and what to sell, you don´t know what you like and what ships are efficient for you. With other words: You didn´t had a deeper look at the game (or any at all). It´s your decision to quit or sell ships, but don´t blame autowin lists and complexity, because both are not true or existent. I am sure you would loose even when playing with your "autowin" lists. I don´t want to insult you, but that´s a matter of attitude

What an asinine post. The only thing you've insulted is the collective intelligence of this forum.

I don't need a dressing down, nor an assignment of whose "problem" my situation is. You clearly have no idea how much experience I have with the game and what else I may have going on that requires more attention than space ship toys, nor was your advice on the matter solicited - and even if it were, your acting like a petulant jerk hardly constitutes a convincing reason to not sell.

I've already clearly stated the game has advanced beyond MY interests and play style. That many among the x wing community share your simplistic, snarky elitism only furthers my desire to leave.

The door is over there The fact that you believe there are autowin lists betrays your experience alongside the fact you felt the need to make a retort. Also - not sure how he insulted the entire forum as he never mentioned the community as a whole...

I said he insulted their intelligence. Obviously not yours, as you're too dense to even understand the very post you're replying to.

Carry on.

...But he didn't mention anyone else?

I feel you. The game has definitely drifted towards having to have the right combos to have a fair fight. IE its a lot easier to build a bad list than a good one.

How so? It seems to me that what you're seeing is more due to the increased popularity of the X-wing tournament scene. Significant imbalances have been part of the game since Wave 1. They were merely less visible because the game hadn't attracted a large competitive crowd yet.

The tournament scene drives the meta for sure. However more cards means the performance delta between a good list and bad list has grown. If nothing else there are far more variables you have to account for when building a tournament force than when they game just came out. I guess its hard to quantify, but it feels like the relative importance of your build vs your play has shifted. For a player not really invested in the tournament scene it can really feel like you get blindsided by what some of these combos can do.

Again i think the issue there is who you are playing with.

Play with your friends and you're less likely to get hit by 'unfun' lists that wipe you out as its not a good game for either of you.

Put it this way i wouldnt take a 'autowin list' (if they existed) against someone i actually liked.

My friends and i tend to think like 'hey wouldnt it be cool to play an 'end of the empire' game with Ewings vs defenders ' etc

We'd be looking for an interesting game rather than trying to crush each other

What I've come to realize is that this game attracts 3 different types of players:

The first is the serious player who purchases 3-6 of each ship and competes on a national level (often spending more on events and travel then on ships)

The second is the local player who mostly owns 1 of each ship, plays primarily at a LGS but may drive an hour or two occasionally for a nearby tournament

The third is a home player who just plays for fun and may only own a few ships

What I think the OP was all about is someone looking to transition from the money demands of a serious player to a more casual one - and that must be respected.

As a 'local' player, I am blown away by the level of commitment some people have - that they travel halfway across the country to compete in tournaments multiple times a year. It's a different mindset to be certain, and one that certainly has its costs.

What I've come to realize is that this game attracts 3 different types of players:

The first is the serious player who purchases 3-6 of each ship and competes on a national level (often spending more on events and travel then on ships)

The second is the local player who mostly owns 1 of each ship, plays primarily at a LGS but may drive an hour or two occasionally for a nearby tournament

The third is a home player who just plays for fun and may only own a few ships

What I think the OP was all about is someone looking to transition from the money demands of a serious player to a more casual one - and that must be respected.

As a 'local' player, I am blown away by the level of commitment some people have - that they travel halfway across the country to compete in tournaments multiple times a year. It's a different mindset to be certain, and one that certainly has its costs.

Well I'm glad that I don't fit neatly into a category. I have multiples of most ships but I'm a casual player and haven't competed in any tournaments locally or otherwise.

What I've come to realize is that this game attracts 3 different types of players:

The first is the serious player who purchases 3-6 of each ship and competes on a national level (often spending more on events and travel then on ships)

The second is the local player who mostly owns 1 of each ship, plays primarily at a LGS but may drive an hour or two occasionally for a nearby tournament

The third is a home player who just plays for fun and may only own a few ships

What I think the OP was all about is someone looking to transition from the money demands of a serious player to a more casual one - and that must be respected.

As a 'local' player, I am blown away by the level of commitment some people have - that they travel halfway across the country to compete in tournaments multiple times a year. It's a different mindset to be certain, and one that certainly has its costs.

Well I'm glad that I don't fit neatly into a category. I have multiples of most ships but I'm a casual player and haven't competed in any tournaments locally or otherwise.

YUP... **** a turn-mate... and stay the shucks away from my 200 ('ish) STAR WARS X-WING SHIPS Made by FFG!

And... **** YOUR DIRTY BAG O' MC DONALD'S HANDS!

:angry:

SCRAM YOU PROFESSIONAL-GAMER-STINK-MONSTERS!

I think the choice of what ships to keep and which one to sell is easy....keep the ones that atracted you to xwing in the first place, sell the ones that fit in with the negatives you don't like, such as ships that fall into your "nearly autowin builds". Going off what gadge said, just play casual and have fun with your friends, no need to play in stores or tourneys with current meta builds and strict following if the rules if that doesn't appeal to you. The neat thing about x-wing is it can be played on many levels, from casual goofy loose play with a friend to ultra-competituve tourney play.

That´s your problem. Like in this thread, you ask other people what to keep and what to sell, you don´t know what you like and what ships are efficient for you. With other words: You didn´t had a deeper look at the game (or any at all). It´s your decision to quit or sell ships, but don´t blame autowin lists and complexity, because both are not true or existent. I am sure you would loose even when playing with your "autowin" lists. I don´t want to insult you, but that´s a matter of attitude

What an asinine post. The only thing you've insulted is the collective intelligence of this forum.

I don't need a dressing down, nor an assignment of whose "problem" my situation is. You clearly have no idea how much experience I have with the game and what else I may have going on that requires more attention than space ship toys, nor was your advice on the matter solicited - and even if it were, your acting like a petulant jerk hardly constitutes a convincing reason to not sell.

I've already clearly stated the game has advanced beyond MY interests and play style. That many among the x wing community share your simplistic, snarky elitism only furthers my desire to leave.

The door is over there The fact that you believe there are autowin lists betrays your experience alongside the fact you felt the need to make a retort. Also - not sure how he insulted the entire forum as he never mentioned the community as a whole...

Chewy Corran is near-autowin. Super Dash is near-autowin. He's not incorrect in his assessment.

You probably didn't think the pre-nerf Phantom was broken, did you?

The only thing you've insulted is the collective intelligence of this forum.

I'd say that "collective intelligence" aka the groupthink, is more of the problem. No matter how well FFG balances the game it'll tend towards tournament stagnation simply because people copy off of the tournament win lists. With that list being copied, it gets played more, consequently it wins more (if a guy enters the tournament along with ten copies of himself there's a higher chance of one of him winning than people there's only one of), and thus it gets copied more. A list doesn't have to be good to become dominant, it justs needs to win a tournament and have enough people complaining about it on the forums. It doesn't need to be autowin (I don't believe anything close to that exists in the game right now), it just needs enough people to call it that. It'll then spread like a plague.

When it comes of upgrade complexity, I don't personally see the issue myself. Yeah, there are a lot of cards, but there aren't that many in the game at once: it's not as if you need to memorise them all.

If all these complaints of "autowin", discussion of ostensible "power combos" and fine analysis in the pursuit of victory are wearing you thin then the easiest solution is to cut out tournaments. It sounds to me less like you want to sell up and more like you've burned out on all the overly competitive **** that gets thrown about.

For dogfights, clock the point limit up to 150. It doesn't take much longer to play (more ships means ships die faster) but it also obliterates the meta-wisdom: it throws you out of exploitation and into exploration, to quote some game design theory. Yeah, 150pt probably has some broken elements too but nobody really knows what they are: people playing 150pt usually are playing for fun rather than solely for victory.

With supplies like yours, you're also excellently equipped to play the incredible X-Wing Co-Op Campaign, which is certainly worth checking out. Furthermore, Babaganoosh has a good guide to missions which are great if you can get people for them.

The beauty of a physical game is that with a few like-minded people you're not confined by the ruleset: you can change it to increase your enjoyment.

It's worth asking yourself if you're burned out on the game itself or if you're burned out on the people playing it.

I need to back the same piece of advice others have given you: if you haven't tried the coop campaign, try it. You can play it solo, or with up to 6 players. It turns X-Wing into a really interesting game of cooperation and coordination, non-competitive, and for the whole family (that likes Star Wars), immediately discarding the "nearly-autowin meta netlists" problem. It doesn't mean that it becomes easy. It comes with its own challenges and requires a different mindset than that of the 100 points deathmatch mode.

I donated my ships to the local game store.

My situation is this: I have Asperger's Syndrome. I bought the core set to play with my psychologist. Soon though, and something quite often found with Aspies, I became obsessed with the game. I had to buy everything. The issues I did not address, and the ones I should have seen if I did not have my condition, is (a.) I do not have friends, (b.) this game requires an inordinate amount of preparation and study, and (c.) the culture surrounding this game is highly competitive. I have read people's comments on this forum and at the local Facebook page that (c.) is not the case.

My experience says otherwise. I go to a casual night. There is no either no one or a small group of people, maybe four or five. Sometimes less. Usually, it is zero. I ask the store clerk or manager where the people are. I am informed that they are at competitve events. I do not discount that it might be casual between friends - the thing is I have not seen it. What I have seen, and what is reflected at the stores and at FFG's news page, is an emphasis on competitive play. There is a phrase I picked up recently - clubbing the seal. I saw this phrase in reference to what it must feel like as a new player in a competitive venue. I have no desire to be the seal. I have lost much already because of my condition. So, the thought of being in a situation where I am facing repeated losses is unappealing to me.

Not being able to practice, and being unable to learn the game for it is an incredibly complicated faceted game (this is how my psychologist described the game), I found little reason to continue playing the game. The moment of decision came when my mother suffered a bilateral weakness in both her legs and she had to be taken to the hospital. I have become her 24/7 caretaker. I made a decision to leave the Facebook page for the local group and to donate the models to the game store. I have recycled the rest.

That´s your problem. Like in this thread, you ask other people what to keep and what to sell, you don´t know what you like and what ships are efficient for you. With other words: You didn´t had a deeper look at the game (or any at all). It´s your decision to quit or sell ships, but don´t blame autowin lists and complexity, because both are not true or existent. I am sure you would loose even when playing with your "autowin" lists. I don´t want to insult you, but that´s a matter of attitude

What an asinine post. The only thing you've insulted is the collective intelligence of this forum.

I don't need a dressing down, nor an assignment of whose "problem" my situation is. You clearly have no idea how much experience I have with the game and what else I may have going on that requires more attention than space ship toys, nor was your advice on the matter solicited - and even if it were, your acting like a petulant jerk hardly constitutes a convincing reason to not sell.

I've already clearly stated the game has advanced beyond MY interests and play style. That many among the x wing community share your simplistic, snarky elitism only furthers my desire to leave.

The door is over there The fact that you believe there are autowin lists betrays your experience alongside the fact you felt the need to make a retort. Also - not sure how he insulted the entire forum as he never mentioned the community as a whole...

Chewy Corran is near-autowin. Super Dash is near-autowin. He's not incorrect in his assessment.

You probably didn't think the pre-nerf Phantom was broken, did you?

I never played the phantom pre-nerf, bought in right after it got changed. Being broken and unwinnable are 2 different things. Sure getting to see where you opponent goes then picking your decloak was retarded, no one ever denied that, but that doesn't mean there aren't/weren't things you can/could do to counterplay the phantom. I fail to see how Chewie Corran is autowin, I don't think it has won any major tournaments...ever...and with the advent of tiny lasers the Falcon became even more manageable. SuperDash got you down? Look into putting some control elements in your list as stress and ion shuts the combat effectiveness of Dash + whatever escort right down. This game has strong lists yes, but it also possesses answers to deal with strong lists. The trick is incorporating answers in your list and having flying solutions pre thought out to deal with whatever you may face when you put your models on the table.

The only thing I can say to this is that it might have been better to place what you wanted to sell in the X-wing trade thread. After reading through here, I don't think you deserved the early attacks for your opinion, but it has been my experience here that any dissenting opinion, perceived or otherwise; is generally responded to exactly like what happened. Doesn't make it right, but it just seems to be how it goes.

I ask the store clerk or manager where the people are. I am informed that they are at competitve events. I do not discount that it might be casual between friends - the thing is I have not seen it.

Sounds like your area's pretty bad. Some people are unlucky in that people in their local area are hypercompetitive and scare off (deliberately or not) anyone who isn't. They're not representative of the whole, but it's not as if people have access to every player in the world.

I think this is something many of us forget: the "culture" of a game's gameplay environment changes depending on where you are. A very competitive one can choke out the more casual environment, especially if those more competitive players are unpleasant or have bad attitudes. I've seen it happen with MTG too, once the "arms race" starts the less serious players are killed off by the price spike: they either have to get similarly serious and financially invested or they can no longer compete. Despite what some people say X-wing isn't nearly as bad for this: it's pretty well balanced and doesn't have the crazy secondary market MTG has.

Nevertheless, if you'd describe the players around where you live as a bunch of WAAC netdeckers then you're probably not going to enjoy yourself, and if people point out that the majority of players are casual players not interested in the slightest in "top tier lists" it doesn't help if there aren't any near you.

My experience says otherwise. I go to a casual night. There is no either no one or a small group of people, maybe four or five. Sometimes less. Usually, it is zero. I ask the store clerk or manager where the people are. I am informed that they are at competitve events. I do not discount that it might be casual between friends - the thing is I have not seen it. What I have seen, and what is reflected at the stores and at FFG's news page, is an emphasis on competitive play. There is a phrase I picked up recently - clubbing the seal. I saw this phrase in reference to what it must feel like as a new player in a competitive venue. I have no desire to be the seal. I have lost much already because of my condition. So, the thought of being in a situation where I am facing repeated losses is unappealing to me.

I would go to a competitive event over attending a casual night. Not because I want to club baby seals or that I crave fierce competition, but because it gives me more of what I want: games.

If I go to a casual night I might get a game or two depending on who's there and how much time they have available. I might end up waiting for a table or an opponent. I might end up getting zero games. If I go to a tournament I can get at least three games in and if I make the cut maybe a couple more. I don't like the timed games (I like my TIEs) so I would prefer untimed, casual games, but they're inherently less reliably available. So given a choice between the chance of getting some relaxed, casual games in on regular casual day and going to an event, paying $10 and knowing I'm getting at least three games in I would choose the tournament every time.

I would go to a competitive event over attending a casual night. Not because I want to club baby seals or that I crave fierce competition, but because it gives me more of what I want: games.

If I go to a casual night I might get a game or two depending on who's there and how much time they have available. I might end up waiting for a table or an opponent. I might end up getting zero games. If I go to a tournament I can get at least three games in and if I make the cut maybe a couple more. I don't like the timed games (I like my TIEs) so I would prefer untimed, casual games, but they're inherently less reliably available. So given a choice between the chance of getting some relaxed, casual games in on regular casual day and going to an event, paying $10 and knowing I'm getting at least three games in I would choose the tournament every time.

I wouldn't. Quality over quantity. Better one laid back and fun game than five almost identical games against the same lists played by players who care far more about winning than playing and the effect that has on the atmosphere.

For dogfights, clock the point limit up to 150. It doesn't take much longer to play (more ships means ships die faster) but it also obliterates the meta-wisdom: it throws you out of exploitation and into exploration, to quote some game design theory. Yeah, 150pt probably has some broken elements too but nobody really knows what they are: people playing 150pt usually are playing for fun rather than solely for victory.

I really wish tournaments would vary the points amount by +/- 20pts or so to shake up the meta. In some other games system I've played we've done a similar thing and it did a lot to eliminate the 'internet list' phenomenon.

I wouldn't. Quality over quantity. Better one laid back and fun game than five almost identical games against the same lists played by players who care far more about winning than playing and the effect that has on the atmosphere.

I haven't noticed a dramatic difference in quality between my tournament games and my casual games. The only two down sides for me in a tournament game are having to use the same list for every game and the time limit.

I haven't experienced a poisoned atmosphere at a tournament. There's some dice grumbling, some complaints about match ups and lists, but I get that in casual games too. Sometimes the casual games are actually worse because the other player wants to skirt all the rules. ("It's casual, it doesn't matter," as he nudges his ship back on the mat.) or he'll quit when his big ship goes down. Generally, though the people I play in the tournaments are usually the same people I would run into on a casual day. Some of them I enjoy playing more than others.

One thing I have started doing at tournaments is asking another player to roll a die to select my list from a list of lists I have that I'd be comfortable playing. First time it was a D6 roll. Last tourney it was a D12. Next time it will probably be a D20. I do that partly to keep myself from focusing too hard on the right build to beat whatever the meta is supposed to be that week. It also lets the other players know that I'm not taking the event too seriously.

X-wing tournaments are so much better than 40k tournaments because the game is so much better.

I would go to a competitive event over attending a casual night. Not because I want to club baby seals or that I crave fierce competition, but because it gives me more of what I want: games.

If I go to a casual night I might get a game or two depending on who's there and how much time they have available. I might end up waiting for a table or an opponent. I might end up getting zero games. If I go to a tournament I can get at least three games in and if I make the cut maybe a couple more. I don't like the timed games (I like my TIEs) so I would prefer untimed, casual games, but they're inherently less reliably available. So given a choice between the chance of getting some relaxed, casual games in on regular casual day and going to an event, paying $10 and knowing I'm getting at least three games in I would choose the tournament every time.

I wouldn't. Quality over quantity. Better one laid back and fun game than five almost identical games against the same lists played by players who care far more about winning than playing and the effect that has on the atmosphere.

There is a middle ground here. I have played in three tournaments at the Miniature Market retail store without ever hitting the same list twice and had fun every time. The setting is not the deciding factor but the opponent. Most of the time, an opponent that is fun to play against in a casual game will be fun to play against in a tourney. To each their own of course but I really enjoy a game when there is a bit of pressure.

To each their own of course but I really enjoy a game when there is a bit of pressure.

I find the structure helps too. The games become the focus of the day, not something squeezed in between other daily events.

I'd love to have a collection like Topic Starter has now and I don't care about Tournaments and just play casual.

In 5+ years from now I want to be able to play epic games with my kids.

And in 15+ years from now, friends will probably envy me for still having a vintage good looking game like this.

Which is why I intend to gradually collect different models by getting them for Xmas or birthday(s) and monthly reserve some money in order to buy another collection in a year orso.

My intention is to own at least 3 ships of each OT-ship (except for Slave-I and Millenium Falcon ofcourse) and 1 or 2 of other ships I like (and remember from X-wing/Tie fighter/X-wing Alliance) and I've calculated that I'd probably end up with a collection with a retail value of around 700-900 bucks (though I intend to acquire the majority through buying collections and trading off what I don't need)

I come from a 2k+ Magic the gathering collection that was collecting dust for 5 years and in my opinion X-Wing miniatures is a game that's quickly learned, looks great, more appealing to most people and therefore much easier to teach others.