Well you can easy tell the pwt haters in this thread. Some of you guys must have been as crap against pwt as your making out a pwt player must be to lose to some of the lists posted. A chewy build with no boost is a sitting duck to those lists and and the 4y or 4b wing player only needs a couple correct guesses and its murder she wrote. Most decent experienced players would have to say either of those lists are strong or hard counters to pwt.

Yes your points about not killing a ship off is sloppy play but in the same example as above just dropping one y or be and having multiple hp off the others and having your pwt down to half would still be a loss. Now I can say I have been in the same situation on more than a few games and while some of those situations have been poor play most have been bad luck by consistently not get damage through. And while I may not be Paul heaver I'm won of the most consistent event winners in my area who normally runs oddball lists.

48 pt coran horn can be a nightmare to deal with let alone the sheild regen factor with this half points for half hp it now makes him nearly an auto include and now has some real strong support with the new Xwing options. Half points should work for all ships as this rule kills of the use of ships like the lambda. You only need one pass at it now and it completely irrelevant as taking half its hit points will be as easy as taking half the hit points of a b or y wing you only have to read the previous post to know this is fact

What would be the big issue with small ships also following the half MoV rule? As far as I can tell it wouldn't really change much.

I agree with that but I think tournament complexity is the easiest reason not to do so. This saves people from tallying every half-health member of an 8-ship swarm.

I was thinking about this on my drive in this morning, it could very well be something we see midway through the next tournament season. Those twelve points you'd get for stripping the shields off an FCS Blue B-Wing are enough for a full win as the rules stand, all else being equal.

My main concern there is that it would encourage small, cheap ships even moreso. The full Swarm had its heyday and is still pretty strong, but I feel it would have an unmitigated advantage in scoring over even 4BZ because of the ways the two players can spread damage and break formation. I don't think we need that.

Well you can easy tell the pwt haters in this thread. Some of you guys must have been as crap against pwt as your making out a pwt player must be to lose to some of the lists posted... *snip*

Seriously, with an opening gambit like that, is the rest of your post even worth reading?

That there is still QQ about this is enjoyable... People were married to their 2 ship lists and don't know what to do... It's entertaining for sure...

Funny how bashing people for running 2-ship builds is the norm around here. “Two ships w/turrets bad….4 ship w/turrets good”

I run Chewbo because I feel it covers a lot of bases defensively and offensively against a variety of lists. Not because it’s a good list to run away when time runs out. Now that list has been nerfed (all be it mildly) because of the general consensus (QQ-ing as you call it).

As far as “married to a 2 ship list” is concerned, I also have won tourneys with BBXY (1 Winter, 1 Store Champ). Is that an acceptable list to you?

If you perceive a discussion about the effects of large base MOV rule changes as QQ-ing , and enjoy it, well…it sounds like you have personal beef against said lists. Whooped you too many times?

Time will tell I guess. I just think it would be sad to see Large ship disappearing completely from the competitive scene. Some small ships can be built defensively too. There are regenerating abilities also. Corran can get to 48 points, can regenerate and with Engine Upgrade, use the "running away tactic" close to the end game. Poe doesn't get quite as high point-wise, but can do pretty much the same.

I've brought Chewie and Leebo at three tournaments. Yes, the point was to be defensive through their great abilities but also offensive (Predator+Gunner on Chewie, HLC[but no Outrider title] on Leebo) and I've never used Engine Upgrade, just stop playing and run away. I agree the 2-ship builds were too popular but to me the new rule seems a bit unfair.

This

Well you can easy tell the pwt haters in this thread. Some of you guys must have been as crap against pwt as your making out a pwt player must be to lose to some of the lists posted. A chewy build with no boost is a sitting duck to those lists and and the 4y or 4b wing player only needs a couple correct guesses and its murder she wrote. Most decent experienced players would have to say either of those lists are strong or hard counters to pwt.

Yes your points about not killing a ship off is sloppy play but in the same example as above just dropping one y or be and having multiple hp off the others and having your pwt down to half would still be a loss. Now I can say I have been in the same situation on more than a few games and while some of those situations have been poor play most have been bad luck by consistently not get damage through. And while I may not be Paul heaver I'm won of the most consistent event winners in my area who normally runs oddball lists.

48 pt coran horn can be a nightmare to deal with let alone the sheild regen factor with this half points for half hp it now makes him nearly an auto include and now has some real strong support with the new Xwing options. Half points should work for all ships as this rule kills of the use of ships like the lambda. You only need one pass at it now and it completely irrelevant as taking half its hit points will be as easy as taking half the hit points of a b or y wing you only have to read the previous post to know this is fact

This..

Well you can easy tell the pwt haters in this thread. Some of you guys must have been as crap against pwt as your making out a pwt player must be to lose to some of the lists posted... *snip*

Seriously, with an opening gambit like that, is the rest of your post even worth reading?

In a word, no.

Most decent experienced players would have to say either of those lists are strong or hard counters to pwt.

Which makes the examples given even worse. Because if PWT's are that bad against a 4 TLT list, then there's no reason why one of the YT's shouldn't of been killed.

Half this thread is pointing out why that one person's examples of why this is bad are really, really bad examples.

There is no reason at all two YT's should ever leave a ship with 1hp left on the table. If someone does that they qutie frankly deserve to lose, and not a modified loss either, they deserve a 200-0 loss, because they are really, really bad at this game.

We may very well see part points for small ships, but there's no doubt in my mind they did this like they did to see how it goes and adjust as needed.

But seriously, half point value for all ships seems silly, but so is half point for large ships. The example most give is that some large base ships can turtle when down to 1-2 hp and time out a match. Would making the half-ship value mov scoring apply once a large base is down to 2hp (regardless of ship) have the proper affect?

Most decent experienced players would have to say either of those lists are strong or hard counters to pwt.

Which makes the examples given even worse. Because if PWT's are that bad against a 4 TLT list, then there's no reason why one of the YT's shouldn't of been killed.

Half this thread is pointing out why that one person's examples of why this is bad are really, really bad examples.

There is no reason at all two YT's should ever leave a ship with 1hp left on the table. If someone does that they qutie frankly deserve to lose, and not a modified loss either, they deserve a 200-0 loss, because they are really, really bad at this game.

We may very well see part points for small ships, but there's no doubt in my mind they did this like they did to see how it goes and adjust as needed.

No matter how improbable (or really, really, really, really bad) the examples are, they are possible, and its a huge point skew for a loss.

Would making the half-ship value mov scoring apply once a large base is down to 2hp (regardless of ship) have the proper affect?

No. Idealy it should be partial points for each damage, so if you lose 3 shields you get X points. Half points for Half HP is a nice compromise though. But if you were to only kick it in at 2HP then you put the bar way to high and accomplish nothing.

The whole point is the meta has developed into a thing where people bring large ships and turtle them to save on MoV. This change is aimed directly at that behavior.

they are possible, and its a huge point skew for a loss.

And again, if someone loses because their 2 YT's throwing between 6 and 8 dice at a target with 1 agility and 1 HP left can't finish that ship. They deserve the loss.

Well you can easy tell the pwt haters in this thread. Some of you guys must have been as crap against pwt as your making out a pwt player must be to lose to some of the lists posted... *snip*

Seriously, with an opening gambit like that, is the rest of your post even worth reading?

Sounds like someone got smashed by a few to many pwt

I've seen more convincing (and eloquent) rebuttals from red-faced, outraged screaming toddlers who just WANT ALL THAT CANDY NOW, DAMMIT.

Would making the half-ship value mov scoring apply once a large base is down to 2hp (regardless of ship) have the proper affect?

No. Idealy it should be partial points for each damage, so if you lose 3 shields you get X points. Half points for Half HP is a nice compromise though. But if you were to only kick it in at 2HP then you put the bar way to high and accomplish nothing.

The whole point is the meta has developed into a thing where people bring large ships and turtle them to save on MoV. This change is aimed directly at that behavior.

It's exactly this reason. The tournament scene was stale. It was full of big turreted ships. It was boring to play against. I got to the point that I could beat most of them, but it didn't mean that it wasn't boring to play against practically the same lists over and over again. I don't want to go to Regionals and face identical lists twice in a row again. It got to the point that I was ready to quit the tournament scene for good just because tournament level X-wing was too boring to play against constantly. I wanted variety and fun. I think I could go to tournaments and get variety these days....at least more so than before.

I don't see fat turrets ever disappearing from the tournament scene. They just won't make up 50% of every list these days.

Sounds like someone got smashed by a few to many pwt

I've seen more convincing (and eloquent) rebuttals from red-faced, outraged screaming toddlers who just WANT ALL THAT CANDY NOW, DAMMIT.

Lambdas and Firesprays weren't holding 60 or so points hostage for tournament MoV. Even with better options for Scum Sprays you probably won't see Kath or Boba come in over 50-55 because they're still pretty fragile, what with having to point those firing arcs at things every turn.

Also please keep quoting the J. Jonah Jameson gif. I never get tired of that.

I would do it for small ships over 40 points..I feel this wont change much either way once 75min rounds are back.

What would be the big issue with small ships also following the half MoV rule? As far as I can tell it wouldn't really change much.

I agree.

Time will tell I guess. I just think it would be sad to see Large ship disappearing completely from the competitive scene.

I don't think this is a serious risk.

But seriously, half point value for all ships seems silly, but so is half point for large ships. The example most give is that some large base ships can turtle when down to 1-2 hp and time out a match. Would making the half-ship value mov scoring apply once a large base is down to 2hp (regardless of ship) have the proper affect?

2 hull on an Aggressor is not the same as 2 hull on a Decimator; in order to apply equally to all Large ships, the rule needs to be a proportion of total hull + shields, and half is the easiest proportion for most people to compute.

I actually agree with the OP, in that I think the rule would be fairer if it applied to all ships. But the arguments presented for it in this thread have been terrible.

My reasoning is that 35-point Soontir Fel can turtle and run pretty effectively if he wants to, and a 40-point Miranda Doni is a giant pain to take down in the late game. Those are point fortresses with less value than a 48-point Chewie, but not by much. And if the goal of the rule change was to push players toward engagement rather than stalling, applying the rule to Large ships only pushes players toward Small point fortresses.

I think it was only done to big ships was because there were just too many of them in the tournament scene. Yes, turtling ships had an advantage, but in the last tournament season, 50% of all winners of Regionals won with a fat turret list. That's a bit unbalanced. I say they put the rule in purely to steer some people away from using them. If you gave it to everyone at first, then you won't really see the exodus that FFG obviously wants to see away from Fat Turret competitive lists.

I agree with the smaller point holdouts, Fel and Miranda in particular, being just as abuse-ready as anything, but it's a lot easier to keep an equal number of points on the board and then take out that lone ship. Three Bandits or Academy Pilots stand a chance at taking out Fel, and the onus is on the Baron to dismantle one other ship without being destroyed himself; Miranda too doesn't want to see three other ships gunning for her simultaneously, although my other favourite Rebel 40-point build is a Wild Space Fringer with HLC and RecSpec, which I would take against a K-Wing any day, SLAM or no.

Would a half point system work better if it applied to all ships over a certain point value? Such as any ship 40+ points gives half points when brought to half health?

Would a half point system work better if it applied to all ships over a certain point value? Such as any ship 40+ points gives half points when brought to half health?

Miranda+TLT+C-3P0 is 38 points. Poe+LW+R5-P9+Autothrusters is the same. Soontir Fel caps out at 36 points, but can easily function as low as 32. The cutoff point should probably be 30 points, frankly, but whether hitting things like Warden Squadron Pilots carrying conner nets, Keyan Farlander, and Wedge is a good idea remains to be seen.

(Heavily edited for conciseness)

Would a half point system work better if it applied to all ships over a certain point value? Such as any ship 40+ points gives half points when brought to half health?

I could easily see FFG introduce half points for all ships.....in the future. They don't want to do it now because they WANT people to play something other than fat turrets. If you did it all now, then a lot of people wouldn't stop playing fat turrets.

I think that's exactly it. Partial scoring rewards a push to a lower common denominator and if applied to Small ships would eventually reward 12-point ships more overall than anything else. As things stand, you have a solid incentive to run your 20-30 point ships because they hold value better than Large ships worth double, and you have more impact per-ship than just spamming Bandits, Pirates, and Academies.

This is again a bit of perfect being the enemy of good.

Is there a better way to do this? Perhaps, but my own data showed that after 4 nights of league play, half points worked out about the same as full partial points. The MoV was naturally different but the rankings didn't change.

Would it be better if all ships were scored for partial points? Perhaps but I think that limiting it to large ships is a good first step.

Would it be better if X points where the cut off? Perhaps but again that has issues as well.

It's not perfect but I think it'll be okay and this is someone who runs a list that gives up more MOV than before.