In our 300 point lists, most people generally field around three capital ships. There are some lists that mix this up, but by and large, you either see three ships, or two large ones with many squadrons. In this situation, what I've noticed is the best strategies generally involved getting the first kill. In a 3 ship vs 3 ship match, losing a ship before your opponent does generally seals your fate, unless you somehow manage to do enough damage so that you can have a counter attack that removes two of their ships. That's really rather rare though. First person to lose a major ship tends to lose the match, whether it's losing your Demolisher, VSD, or AFmkII, whatever.

With us moving to 400 points, I believe this is going to change drastically. Four ships will more than likely be the minimum, with quite a few lists fielding five or more. Of course, this is dependent upon the size of ship, especially considering now that we have the large ships that'll eat up equivalent percentages of your list as medium ships did in the 300 point lists. What I see happening, however, are multiple engagements. Focusing your entire fleet onto one enemy ship in order to gain an advantage won't be quite as helpful, unless your enemy has a Large ship stacked with upgrades and their commander. Focusing one enemy ship worked at 300 since there was less opportunity for your opponent to counter-attack. With 400 points, focusing on one enemy ship leaves the rest of the enemy fleet, which is now a more sizeable portion, the ability to gain much better positioning, and more easily come back from an early set-back.

Consequently, I believe that, moving forward, the best strategy to implement will be smaller sub-groups within list builds, each of which can go after an enemy target on its own. An example would be a Demolisher paired with an Overload-Raider. These two ships make up a bit more than 1/3 of your points (depending on how you decide to kit them out), but by themselves are capable of quickly destroying a medium sized ship on your opponent's side. An Imperial could quite easily destroy a small ship in one round of shooting, especially if it manages to get a double-arc.

Doing this would also mitigate your own losses, if your opponent gets one of your ships early on. With a more compartmentalized strategy, your sub-groups are less effected by losses suffered in other sub-groups.

I sat at home today thinking how to build/fly a 400 pt fleet. I have to think you're onto something. That or just playing more tactical tricks trying to get an aggressive opponent to bite on something that won't benefit them long term.

I'm curious about the community's response.

I agree that most go with 2-3 ships I however I love to run 4, but I was the only player with corvette's at the latest sullust event (so far undefeated list).

After the finale match I was building some lists with my new mon cal cruiser and I think the 100p extra points won't do that much in adding more ships in my lists. A ISD or MC80 will easy eat up 160+ points if u put your commander there, and most list I did ended up with 3-4 ships.

Ofc if you go only small-medium ships then yes I agree 4 will be the minimum and easy 5-6 depending in what you take. I think sullust was a bit of a re-launch since so much will change.

I do however think and hope we will get alot more diversity in lists moving forward. Swarm lists, heavy hitters, squadron heavy carriers and something else fun instead of the same 2-3 medium ship builds.

I agree that most go with 2-3 ships I however I love to run 4, but I was the only player with corvette's at the latest sullust event (so far undefeated list).

After the finale match I was building some lists with my new mon cal cruiser and I think the 100p extra points won't do that much in adding more ships in my lists. A ISD or MC80 will easy eat up 160+ points if u put your commander there, and most list I did ended up with 3-4 ships.

Ofc if you go only small-medium ships then yes I agree 4 will be the minimum and easy 5-6 depending in what you take. I think sullust was a bit of a re-launch since so much will change.

I do however think and hope we will get alot more diversity in lists moving forward. Swarm lists, heavy hitters, squadron heavy carriers and something else fun instead of the same 2-3 medium ship builds.

I'm inclined to agree. There will still be spam lists, I'd expect, but most lists will probably include at least one of the large ships. Four ships may end up being more of the norm (ISD + 2 Glads + Raider + Squadrons; MC-80 + 2 Shrimps + support Neb/CR-90), but there will probably be plenty of three ship lists, too (Dual ISDs + Demolisher; MC-80 + 2 AFIIs; Triple behemoths). There shouldn't be much reason to run just two ship lists, though, with the Raider/CR-90 being so inexpensive...

It depends. Smart money is on running more ships with capable stats. MC30s, CR90s, etc. You get more activations, more orders, spread your damage output over multiple attacks (to minimise the effect of defence tokens) and incoming damage is spread over multiple ships meaning your fleet remains effective and capable for longer.

However, that's also kinda dull. And slow to play, given how top-heavy the rules are. Any more than about four or five capital ships and you start to really drag the turns out with all those upgrades and how they interact with each other.

A more fun option is to take the big ships, as well as some medium/small ones. Mon Cala cruisers and Imperial Star Destroyers are iconic, gorgeous, and fun to use. But BOY do they suck up a lot of points. If you're running the big ships, then you're going to really struggle to fit four capital ships into 400 points. Or at least, four decent ships. You might get an MC80 and three naked CR90s or an ISD and three raiders. Or more, I guess, if you don't take any squadron support.

If anything, I think we'll see LESS ships on the table at 400 points because the big ships are just so attractive, and squadrons have gained more relevance with wave 2.

I think the 400 change will open up a few more combinations of ships that previously just couldn't fit well. For example, I've been trying to get a good 300 point Gallant Haven list together for a while with Gallant Haven acting not as carrier, but as a point ship spamming engineering and protecting the squadrons. 300 pts just isn't quite enough for that expensive of a lead ship and then have enough credible support behind it. 400 point solves that problem. You can run Haven, an additional Carrier AFM2, support ships and squadrons.

Of course that's just one example, but with the new ships coming in we have more combinations work out and the point cap to actually see them happen. (well, at least small and medium sized ships. The large ships will feel like mediums do at 300 points).

It depends. Smart money is on running more ships with capable stats. MC30s, CR90s, etc. You get more activations, more orders, spread your damage output over multiple attacks (to minimise the effect of defence tokens) and incoming damage is spread over multiple ships meaning your fleet remains effective and capable for longer.

Makes me wonder if larger ships will find a use for those cards that convert "something" to an accuracy? No brace for you Mr Sienfield.

I am of the belief that the games won't be longer, but shorter. People won't play with 'more' ships, they will just play 'More Expensive' ships...they will 'indulge' if you may.

I can't wait to see and experience it. Right now we are all guess' and kneejerk reactions. My first kneejerk is that squadrons and small ships (Vette and sadly the new Imp. Raider) will be a rarer sight in the Wave 2 era of Armada.

We'll see!

I am of the belief that the games won't be longer, but shorter. People won't play with 'more' ships, they will just play 'More Expensive' ships...they will 'indulge' if you may.

I can't wait to see and experience it. Right now we are all guess' and kneejerk reactions. My first kneejerk is that squadrons and small ships (Vette and sadly the new Imp. Raider) will be a rarer sight in the Wave 2 era of Armada.

We'll see!

Certainly possible. Our sullust game was dramatically affected by Nym stripping an ISD of its brace token in round 3, just as an MC-80 closed in for the kill. It's probably other knee-jerk overreaction, but that was enough to convince our entire group that squadrons (and anti-squadron killers like the Raider) were going to be far more valuable/indispensable in Wave II than in Wave I

Personally I hope so, because I love the idea of squadrons zipping around, causing mayhem. The thought of limitless Intel-enhanced squadrons and bombers, activating at long range or on their own as Rogues, makes me happy inside.

That said, it seems like spam fleets composed primarily or entirely of smaller ships are going to have a tough time surviving in a world where the dice count on warships appears to be going up exponentially.

I'll be honest. I've been contemplating 3-4 ships. And finally a good sized squadron build. I've always wanted to. But hampered by two ships and squads. Or three ships. Always hurt me.

Now I will try it out easier.

I am of the belief that the games won't be longer, but shorter.

I agree, though there will be some players that just take longer as they have been given more time to take.

All of my lists with the MC80 are three ship lists thus far. This includes both squadron heavy builds and minimal squadrons. My "Ackbar Slash" list is an MC80 Assault, two AFIIs with gunnery teams, Han and Tycho. My squadron lists all feature an MC80 Command and two Neb-Bs (Yavaris and Salvation unsurprisingly). I'm not worried about it in the slightest.

Man that's weird. I've been subconsciously designing my builds in two subgroups as suggested by the OP

I got Wave 1.5 with 2 TLR cr90s and a raymus salvation in one extreme and then two NEB's (one yavaris) and a herd of Bs in another

Then I got an Akbar bash of two long range fatties on one end and two scout shrimp on the other (plus some A-wings) [or home one plus a cr-90a + As on one end, two scout shrimp on the other]

I guess 400 points just naturally lends itself to splitting the fleet into specialized groups now that we have the numbers do to so

Here's what I'm currently playing around with:

Battle Group I

Imperial-II Star Destroyer: 149 pts

*Screed

*Relentless

Raider II Corvette: 56 pts

*Overload Pulse

Battle Group II

Gladiator-I Star Destroyer: 85 pts

*ACM

*Engine Techs

*Ordnance Experts

*Demolisher

Raider II Class Corvette: 56 pts

*Overload Pulse

Support Group

Raider-I Class Corvette: 52 pts

*Instigator

*Ordnance Experts

This sits in at 398 points. This is still very much a work in progress, since I've obviously not been able to playtest it yet. I'll probably like to drop a few points, not quite sure where. The strategy is simple: in each battle group, the Raider will overload pulse the target, allowing its partner ship to deliver a hammer blow. The Instigator is there entirely to tie up Rhymer-Balls and other such threatening squadrons that might otherwise put a cramp in my day.

Funny. I see the opposite. Rogues alone will make most of the people who were anti-squadron in wave 1 take up the round-base-banner. Every complaint about squadrons is addressed by the medium squadrons: move and shoot without a command.

The ironic result? The most effective way to counter these ships is squadrons...tada, now everyone budgets squadrons!

This could nearly explain FFGs utter non-chalance on the worries of squadrons: knowing that the rogues would give enough power (almost the firepower power of a corvette with huge boons on top of that) into the realm of squads that would essentially require people to budget points to deal with them.

As for ships...I have a retardedly powerful, decked out victory 1 that costs the same as a naked ISD...so I actually feel that with large ships and the relative power of rogues and forcing more points funneled into the squadron game will drive the ship count down...or least just not up.

The only thing that 400 points (and wave 2) will definitely give us is more variety in list making.

With the option to take 2 ships + squadrons, all the way to a bazillion CR90's, you'll see people experimenting. Probably with more ships at first as they'll use their (less expensive) wave 1 ships in their collections, but then transitioning to fewer ships as people begin to work the more expensive ships in.

I think that pre-planning your list into set squadrons is too limiting. With so many potential opponents and so many possible missions, you don't want to limit yourself to a battle plan that will not survive contact with the enemy.

Rogues will definitely be a big addition. But, I like capital ships, and for me, the addition of the Raider to the Imperial side is an even bigger advantage. It allows you to focus a list on anti-ship firepower, yet still have plenty of anti-squadron damage available. The Instigator is a great tie-up for enemy squadrons, and with re-rolling blacks to fire against them, it's going to do some hefty damage. If you see major squadron useage, the list adjusts very easily: the glad and Imp team up for a middle-ground group, while the three raiders all go into anti-squadron mode. Even the Imperial can dish out some good anti-fighter damage with its two blue dice.

I've been playing 400 point games since I got my 2 core sets and alot more has come along since then. Those 400 points get eatin up very fast. Use them wisely...figuring out the right balance is the key and the most fun trying to achieve....

I'm one of the poor wretches still waiting for bloody/bleeding Wave 2 to arrive......aleast I can proxy Ackbar for home games.....he's' killer' leading a mob of AFII's.......quite alot of jolly Reds flying about..........

In our 300 point lists, most people generally field around three capital ships. There are some lists that mix this up, but by and large, you either see three ships, or two large ones with many squadrons. In this situation, what I've noticed is the best strategies generally involved getting the first kill. In a 3 ship vs 3 ship match, losing a ship before your opponent does generally seals your fate, unless you somehow manage to do enough damage so that you can have a counter attack that removes two of their ships. That's really rather rare though. First person to lose a major ship tends to lose the match, whether it's losing your Demolisher, VSD, or AFmkII, whatever.

With us moving to 400 points, I believe this is going to change drastically. Four ships will more than likely be the minimum, with quite a few lists fielding five or more. Of course, this is dependent upon the size of ship, especially considering now that we have the large ships that'll eat up equivalent percentages of your list as medium ships did in the 300 point lists. What I see happening, however, are multiple engagements. Focusing your entire fleet onto one enemy ship in order to gain an advantage won't be quite as helpful, unless your enemy has a Large ship stacked with upgrades and their commander. Focusing one enemy ship worked at 300 since there was less opportunity for your opponent to counter-attack. With 400 points, focusing on one enemy ship leaves the rest of the enemy fleet, which is now a more sizeable portion, the ability to gain much better positioning, and more easily come back from an early set-back.

Consequently, I believe that, moving forward, the best strategy to implement will be smaller sub-groups within list builds, each of which can go after an enemy target on its own. An example would be a Demolisher paired with an Overload-Raider. These two ships make up a bit more than 1/3 of your points (depending on how you decide to kit them out), but by themselves are capable of quickly destroying a medium sized ship on your opponent's side. An Imperial could quite easily destroy a small ship in one round of shooting, especially if it manages to get a double-arc.

Doing this would also mitigate your own losses, if your opponent gets one of your ships early on. With a more compartmentalized strategy, your sub-groups are less effected by losses suffered in other sub-groups.

I don't agree. I've just played 3 400-point wave 1 games and 400 points is not enough to warrant splitting up your fleet like you suggest. The key is still maneuvering your fleet as a whole, trying to pick apart the enemy one piece at the time. And that's without taking into account the large wave 2 ships or all the nifty new upgrades - those will eat points fast.

The real difference will be greater variety in fleet composition. From 2 ISDs stacked with upgrades, to fleets of 7 or 8 smaller vessels zipping around.

I don't agree. I've just played 3 400-point wave 1 games and 400 points is not enough to warrant splitting up your fleet like you suggest. The key is still maneuvering your fleet as a whole, trying to pick apart the enemy one piece at the time. And that's without taking into account the large wave 2 ships or all the nifty new upgrades - those will eat points fast.

The real difference will be greater variety in fleet composition. From 2 ISDs stacked with upgrades, to fleets of 7 or 8 smaller vessels zipping around.

Well, I'm not sure which side you were playing with. For the Imperials, the addition of the Raider allows for the grouping of the fleet, because it's a cheap ship that supports another larger ship well. With playing with only wave 1 ships like you were, yeah, it'd be a bit harder, since your smallest ship is the Gladiator. Not only that, but having the Raider means you no longer have to put points into anti-fighter squadrons if you're running a solid-ship build; the Raiders and their title upgrades are good enough to be able to do that work, and even the Imperial can add in on that. Those factors combined together will change. So, yeah, with wave-1 at 400 points, not a big change, but we have to include the difference that wave-2 ships will make.

This is, of course, only me talking about the Imperial side of things, since I have far less experience with the Rebel side.

Hmm... well, Splitting your fleet feels to me like you're handing your opponent a divide-and-conquer victory. Every time someone's done this I feel I always have the advantage of ganging up more of my ships against the fewer that come to attack me. Flanking against me sometimes works, when that ends up happening is I peel off one ship to engage the flanker while the other two continue pounding on the ship(s) I've engaged.

The above strategy though, won't work if you go for positional objectives. If you can squeeze out more points through board control then splitting the list has an advantage... just as long as the points you made out of the objective can make up for the points you lose in delaying the massed strike force hammering half your list to death.

Whilst there will certainly be more variety of lists, there won't be a huge change in fleet size (i.e. no. ships). 100 points is much and with newer and more expensive ships, a lot of players will be fielding these instead of the older and cheaper ones.

I'll probably be fielding an MC80 and 2 MC30s. Been experimenting with a 3rd MC30 but it doesn't really leave much room for upgrades/squadrons, and I think squadrons will be used more frequently now. Plus, 3 naked shrimps with an MC80 (and not much else) doesn't seem like it will be as much fun to play than 1 fewer ship but a decent amount of squadrons and upgrades.

During my own list building after getting an ISD over the weekend, I was startled how fast my points were used up when including that ship in builds. Most of my lists still had only 3 ships, and that by choice is due to upgrades and a healthy squadron compliment. My observation about 400 pts is the versatility of fleet construction has gone up, vs the simple ship count. 300 pts and a limited amount of ship choices in wave I forced players into a build strategy of being good at one thing. Now you will see fleets that can both engage enemy ships head to head and squadron command with great effect with a larger variety of builds. Then you will have guys that go, 100 more points? Thats a whole other assault frigate!

IMO The biggest impact this new wave will have on the game is in objective play. You will be able to afford to split off a smaller ship to go capture an objective while your MC80 or ISD goes after the enemy, or use a heavy fighter/bomber screen at range to slow an enemy fleets advance onto an otherwise juicy objective.

For what its worth as someone who didn't get a chance to play Sullust...

Most of the lists I can put together as Imperials settle on three ships plus squadrons if I have an ISD in it. Can go to 4 ship with VSD and multiple gladiators/raiders, but I get the impression such a fleet will get annihilated in the new environment. Accuracy and damage boosters will make it a very unforgiving place for small ships.

Even the tough old VSD is going to be in trouble when it can easily be outshot by an ackbar corvette with ready access to accuracy.

I'm even thinking the medium ships will need to bring some bomber support so at least they become a bit multidimensional - like a VSD 1 with chirenau and three tie bombers in close support (101 points) - as long as someone is providing some fighter cover!

I may turn out to be completely wrong though!

I think you are right when it comes to Ackbar. I have a feeling we will see him more then we like. And I also agree that small ships just got deadlier with him in the fleet. Corvettes with enhanced armament, redundant shields and Ackbar. That sounds like so much fun... Lucky my ISD can literally chase them with a navigate command. In my move experiments on the table last night the bloody thing can be in the enemy deployment area turn 2.