Came home after a really good weekend of playing 2 Sullust tournaments with 2 Imperial Star Destroyers.

Would it be reasonable to use 2 in a 400 points list, or should I try to trade one away for a MC80?

Hell, I think it's reasonable to use 3 ISD's in a 400 point list.

They are fast.

They are tough.

They pack a crapload of firepower.

They can handle squadrons.

3 ISD-2's with Motti gives you 16 points for upgrades, has 42 hull points. Yeah...I honestly don't know what's going to take that down.

a skew may be impossible to table

but be warned, they're not as durable as they seem at 400 points. There's a lot of crap on the table, and a lot of dice coming in with some very powerful upgrades such as Akbar and turbo-laser reroutes and even Assault Proton Torps possibly flipping horrid crits

honestly, though, it doesn't matter how viable it is. It'll just look and feel right

only problem is, if you want to use a decent number of squadrons, you just won't have room for a decent number of ships

two ISD-1s run for 220, two OLP Raider-2s run for 112 and then Skreed takes you to 358 with room for Avenger (363) and two gunnery teams (377) with some breathing room to customize

for Motti, you're looking at 244 minimum; 390 if you just slap in two VSD-1s (4 ships, 48 hull )

but be warned, they're not as durable as they seem at 400 points. There's a lot of crap on the table, and a lot of dice coming in with some very powerful upgrades such as Akbar and turbo-laser reroutes and even Assault Proton Torps possibly flipping horrid crits

This is why you would run 3 of them. At 14 hull, plus at least three shields, that's 17 damage (22 dice worth of average rolls) minimum to take one down (assuming no defense tokens whatsoever). Slap gunnery teams on two of them (40+ front arc dice per round, between the three of them), fly fast and furious, and melt those MC-80s.

22 dice worth of average rolls is actually close to the silly Wave 2 list I engineered for the 2nd place player on the fourth round of sullest

It was Home One on an Assault Mc-80 & H9s and two EA gunnery team fatties (would've been no EA and a fourth ship, another fattie, but time was short)

that's:

Long Range:

6 dice out of the MC-80

6 dice out of each Fattie (12)

[5 out of each fattie if running 3, 15 total]

Medium Range:

8 dice out of the MC-80

7 dice out of each fattie (14)

22 dice exactly

[6 out of each fattie if running 3, 18 potential maximum]

plus guaranteed accuracies, poor brace

but ugh, now thanks to this thread I can't stop thinking about double ISD fleets

ISD-1 (Vader, Gunnery Team, Tractor Beams)

ISD-1 (Gunnery Team, Tractor Beams, Avenger)

VSD-1 (Tractor Beams)

4 Tie Fighters for fodder

[398]

a skew may be impossible to table

but be warned, they're not as durable as they seem at 400 points. There's a lot of crap on the table, and a lot of dice coming in with some very powerful upgrades such as Akbar and turbo-laser reroutes and even Assault Proton Torps possibly flipping horrid crits

honestly, though, it doesn't matter how viable it is. It'll just look and feel right

only problem is, if you want to use a decent number of squadrons, you just won't have room for a decent number of ships

two ISD-1s run for 220, two OLP Raider-2s run for 112 and then Skreed takes you to 358 with room for Avenger (363) and two gunnery teams (377) with some breathing room to customize

for Motti, you're looking at 244 minimum; 390 if you just slap in two VSD-1s (4 ships, 48 hull )

Well, to be sure, you can't just throw down 3 ISDs and not fly or shoot back and expect to win :-) You still have to play the game, of course. I just see a very hard time handling 3 ISDs. They have no achilles heel.

I think I like 2 ISD 2's; one on each flank, both running ECM, and run an ISD 1 down the center, with Relentless, Captain Needa, Gunnery Team. And cap it off with Motti.

a skew may be impossible to table

but be warned, they're not as durable as they seem at 400 points. There's a lot of crap on the table, and a lot of dice coming in with some very powerful upgrades such as Akbar and turbo-laser reroutes and even Assault Proton Torps possibly flipping horrid crits

honestly, though, it doesn't matter how viable it is. It'll just look and feel right

only problem is, if you want to use a decent number of squadrons, you just won't have room for a decent number of ships

two ISD-1s run for 220, two OLP Raider-2s run for 112 and then Skreed takes you to 358 with room for Avenger (363) and two gunnery teams (377) with some breathing room to customize

for Motti, you're looking at 244 minimum; 390 if you just slap in two VSD-1s (4 ships, 48 hull )

Well, to be sure, you can't just throw down 3 ISDs and not fly or shoot back and expect to win :-) You still have to play the game, of course. I just see a very hard time handling 3 ISDs. They have no achilles heel.

I think I like 2 ISD 2's; one on each flank, both running ECM, and run an ISD 1 down the center, with Relentless, Captain Needa, Gunnery Team. And cap it off with Motti.

Great ideas, but you are already making my wallet hurt.

a skew may be impossible to table

but be warned, they're not as durable as they seem at 400 points. There's a lot of crap on the table, and a lot of dice coming in with some very powerful upgrades such as Akbar and turbo-laser reroutes and even Assault Proton Torps possibly flipping horrid crits

honestly, though, it doesn't matter how viable it is. It'll just look and feel right

only problem is, if you want to use a decent number of squadrons, you just won't have room for a decent number of ships

two ISD-1s run for 220, two OLP Raider-2s run for 112 and then Skreed takes you to 358 with room for Avenger (363) and two gunnery teams (377) with some breathing room to customize

for Motti, you're looking at 244 minimum; 390 if you just slap in two VSD-1s (4 ships, 48 hull )

Well, to be sure, you can't just throw down 3 ISDs and not fly or shoot back and expect to win :-) You still have to play the game, of course. I just see a very hard time handling 3 ISDs. They have no achilles heel.

I think I like 2 ISD 2's; one on each flank, both running ECM, and run an ISD 1 down the center, with Relentless, Captain Needa, Gunnery Team. And cap it off with Motti.

but they've got plenty of heels, mostly revolving around their crazy cost, size and focus on their (admittedly awesome and wide) front arc. They're not going to enjoy running into lots of ships (ECM is once per round, not going to hold an Akbar gunline back for long)

Speaking of, I was actually just thinking about how ******* hilarious Montferrat could have been on an ISD. thank god FFG put in that overlap clause (just imagine the choochoo of destruction you could have created with that thing!)

but really, they're not actually that invincible. They're huge and imposing, but they need support to not get focused down and butchered (like any huge thing in a well balanced game ). Because of the way defense tokens work, they can't really withstand concentrated fire and even the considerable amount of hull + shields on the ISD won't hold for long.

Setting aside Akbar, there are quite a few things that can match an ISD's damage output at a fraction of the cost

the two most easily identifiable ones from Wave 1 are ACM (or assault torp) GSDs and Yavaris B-wings, both of which are capable of insane damage output enough to rip a small ship apart in a round and a medium in two.

There's also the potential 8 ship MM CR-90a swarm

I don't actually think ISD spam be much of a thing, sadly, outside of how awesomely nostalgic it is (and how impressive it looks). But really, there is no better reason to run them than that

So I should keep them both, then?

So I should keep them both, then?

I'll take the one you don't want, if you're itching to get rid of them :-)

I wish I could get a free ISD, but he'd trade it away for a mon-cal

anyway, the short of it is "I have no bloody clue" because Wave 2 is still a grand, mysterious realm of fantasy at this stage

if you only play empire, then yes you should keep it

otherwise, diversity is generally a great thing (and the mc-80 is pretty spectacular, too)

Well one thing of note after we opened all our ships was that Wave II contains compliments and counters to eachother spread accross the 5 packages. If you can Trade it for an MC80 I would, you can always get another Star Destroyer later. That said it depends on what you want; more upgrade options, or more triangles.

Speaking of, I was actually just thinking about how ******* hilarious Montferrat could have been on an ISD. thank god FFG put in that overlap clause (just imagine the choochoo of destruction you could have created with that thing!)

Been actually thinking about this, too. Losing him from an overlap is unfortunate, but forcing at least one lost dice per attack (knowing that you're going to be focused down) could be huge. Alternatively, Needa's free evade--against rebel ships that throw boatloads of red dice--is probably a less risky at a lower price point (though only useable once per round).

Let's see:

7 Neb-bs generate 21 red dice at long range, 28 if you Concentrate Firepower.

7 CR-90s with TRCs generate 19.25 combined damage out of the front arc alone (at long range). The side arc could add another 14 damage, and CF commands another 5 or so.

So no, 3 ISD lists will not be unstoppable. I'm not saying the lists above will trump them, just that there exists the firepower to take on any ship without looking too far.

Oh, one more:

Akbar with 4 AFM2s generate 5 red dice out the side for 20-24 red dice. AND, they can use gunnery teams to double that if another target is available. (And still have 46 points leftover to spend, say another 4 red dice of EA)

There's also the potential 8 ship MM CR-90a swarm

No, no, no. 8 CR-90 A's with Ackbar and Opening Salvo!!!! FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!

Being the local tournament organizer, I did not play. I ended up with an Imperial Raider as my reward. However, I already have a pair of ISD and a pair of MC80 ordered. As well as 2 more Raiders, 3 MC30c and 2 Rogues & Villains expansions. I like to have, and am compulsive enough, to want to have the ships I need to run any list I can conceive of. Which means I will probably expand on at least the number of Raiders and MC30c I end up with (I have 6 CR90 and 6 Neb-Bs).

Being the local tournament organizer, I did not play. I ended up with an Imperial Raider as my reward. However, I already have a pair of ISD and a pair of MC80 ordered. As well as 2 more Raiders, 3 MC30c and 2 Rogues & Villains expansions. I like to have, and am compulsive enough, to want to have the ships I need to run any list I can conceive of. Which means I will probably expand on at least the number of Raiders and MC30c I end up with (I have 6 CR90 and 6 Neb-Bs).

You are FFG's target market.

You are the legendary "Buyer-X" they discuss in management meetings.

Getting three here... then I can have them chase Han.

I'd say keep em, unless you want the leg for a rebel fleet before they go on the market

Getting three here... then I can have them chase Han.

Chasing one YT-1300 means a high chance of colliding with your own ships. Be warned

Star Destroyers have that terrible problem of weak rear arcs. All that needs to happen is someone slips in a few MC30s or some GSDs into the rear arc and the carnage happens. Armada has no reverse, so the ISDs either have to delay a turn of movement with some navigate commands, have escorts to cover their posteriors, or position in such a way that they'll intercept any ships that are coming to flank behind them. It's not super easy.

I know I have been wanting to try:

3x ISD I + Gunnery Team + Tractor Beams + Motti

Getting three here... then I can have them chase Han.

Chasing one YT-1300 means a high chance of colliding with your own ships. Be warned

Star Destroyers have that terrible problem of weak rear arcs. All that needs to happen is someone slips in a few MC30s or some GSDs into the rear arc and the carnage happens. Armada has no reverse, so the ISDs either have to delay a turn of movement with some navigate commands, have escorts to cover their posteriors, or position in such a way that they'll intercept any ships that are coming to flank behind them. It's not super easy.

Brah... I am gonna have so dang many TIE-Critters it will look like a Hornet Nest; Mad & Busy!

Being the local tournament organizer, I did not play. I ended up with an Imperial Raider as my reward. However, I already have a pair of ISD and a pair of MC80 ordered. As well as 2 more Raiders, 3 MC30c and 2 Rogues & Villains expansions. I like to have, and am compulsive enough, to want to have the ships I need to run any list I can conceive of. Which means I will probably expand on at least the number of Raiders and MC30c I end up with (I have 6 CR90 and 6 Neb-Bs).

i thought the exact same way with X-wing.. then as the game matured i found that all those extra ships i bought now sit and collect dust as the spam lists don't work like they used to. so while fun at the time, the game will likely grow and you might be left with a shelf full of unused ships collecting dust and acting as paper weights; gorgeous paper weights, but paper weights none the less

as for myself, i'll be sticking to just 1-2 of each ship, working with what i have and being creative with my lists. while this may handicap my game now, it should give me an edge in the future

i thought the exact same way with X-wing.. then as the game matured i found that all those extra ships i bought now sit and collect dust as the spam lists don't work like they used to. so while fun at the time, the game will likely grow and you might be left with a shelf full of unused ships collecting dust and acting as paper weights; gorgeous paper weights, but paper weights none the less

as for myself, i'll be sticking to just 1-2 of each ship, working with what i have and being creative with my lists. while this may handicap my game now, it should give me an edge in the future

I learnt this lesson with 40k. Strictly buying only one of each expansion, with the only duplicate being imperial raider because of the need to balance the amount of small ships for the imperials.

I learnt this lesson with 40k - I have 15,000 points of guard and 15,000 points of Eldar, all painted up sitting on a shelf half the world away as it's too much stuff to take with me when I move country (again).

It's much better to have the minimum stuff you need, rather than the maximum you want.