This wasn't an issue during the Sullust tournament, but rather came up after the fact.

Assume I roll my attack dice into my attack pool and get no results I wish to reroll. I have a CF dial and a CF token. I declare my CF order and spend the dial to roll an extra die into the attack pool (of a colour already in the pool): Must I declare the use of the CF token BEFORE seeing the result of the die provided by the CF dial? Or am I still performing the CF order once the die is rolled, and can thus decide to spend or not spend the CF token AFTER the die has hit the table.

I don't think I said CF enough.

My understanding is you have to declare the token when you use the dial but you are not then required to re-roll anything but can then re-roll the die added with the CF dial.

Yes. Tokens are combined with the dial of that type. If you dont declare the the use of that at that time then by the rules you cant use it.

Ach, I've been doing it wrong. Thanks for the help.

Ach, I've been doing it wrong. Thanks for the help.

You and me both, not that bit, but others. Plus more I have yet to figure out. Just soooooooo looking forward to finding out which.

Reveal Command Dial, Determine use of command dial (CF to add 1 die of choice), Roll for damage, declare CF token to re-roll a die of choice.
I think it depends on the person on the other end of the table too. If you played me I would know what you were doing and wouldn't question it or say anything about how you resolve it.

Reveal Command Dial, Determine use of command dial (CF to add 1 die of choice), Roll for damage, declare CF token to re-roll a die of choice.

I think it depends on the person on the other end of the table too. If you played me I would know what you were doing and wouldn't question it or say anything about how you resolve it.

That is executing the same command twice in one turn. Would be like me using a squadren dial to move 4 squads, not getting the last hit I needed to take down Tyco before his scatter refreshes, so I spend my token for one more TIE.

Reveal Command Dial, Determine use of command dial (CF to add 1 die of choice), Roll for damage, declare CF token to re-roll a die of choice.

I think it depends on the person on the other end of the table too. If you played me I would know what you were doing and wouldn't question it or say anything about how you resolve it.

That is executing the same command twice in one turn. Would be like me using a squadren dial to move 4 squads, not getting the last hit I needed to take down Tyco before his scatter refreshes, so I spend my token for one more TIE.

See, I really don't buy this interpretation, personally.

If it's being resolved in the same attack, it's the same command.

Since all of these effects are taking place during the same step, they're all simultaneous. I don't see the issue with waiting to decide if you will or will not spend the CF token.

After all, you can pre-measure your movement during "determine course" before you decide to spend your navigation token. Exactly what are we getting out of forcing people to decide to spend a token before they know if they need it?

We just assume you can spend the token at will, as long as the time to do so has not passed.

Just because the rules say so.

That said, this is never an issue during casual play. I'd say it's relevant only for dead serious tournament types.

Reveal Command Dial, Determine use of command dial (CF to add 1 die of choice), Roll for damage, declare CF token to re-roll a die of choice.

I think it depends on the person on the other end of the table too. If you played me I would know what you were doing and wouldn't question it or say anything about how you resolve it.

That is executing the same command twice in one turn. Would be like me using a squadren dial to move 4 squads, not getting the last hit I needed to take down Tyco before his scatter refreshes, so I spend my token for one more TIE.

See, I really don't buy this interpretation, personally.

If it's being resolved in the same attack, it's the same command.

Since all of these effects are taking place during the same step, they're all simultaneous. I don't see the issue with waiting to decide if you will or will not spend the CF token.

After all, you can pre-measure your movement during "determine course" before you decide to spend your navigation token. Exactly what are we getting out of forcing people to decide to spend a token before they know if they need it?

The hard call, that's what fleet captains get the big bucks for. One way to look at it.

Or Another way , I don't know if I'm going to need 3 TIEs or 4 to get the job done, but I still have to commit before the shooting starts. Not like I can decide to commit to a fight that's allready finished.

Same with CF, just how CF do I need to be.....?

Yet another way to look at it is page 2 of the FAQ

Q: If a ship wants to spend a command dial and token of the

spend them together

Cool thing about doing it this way is that if you ever decide to hit the Pro circut, you aren't going to have any bad habits to break. And you're less likely to have missunderstandings with cool new players from out of town.

Reveal Command Dial, Determine use of command dial (CF to add 1 die of choice), Roll for damage, declare CF token to re-roll a die of choice.

I think it depends on the person on the other end of the table too. If you played me I would know what you were doing and wouldn't question it or say anything about how you resolve it.

By the RAW you can only perform a command once per activation.

The FAQ clarifies further, if you have both a dial and token you can use them both, but as you can only make one CF order each turn they have to be spent together and used as they would.

As such you may get pulled up for the use of the token in your example.

Reveal Command Dial, Determine use of command dial (CF to add 1 die of choice), Roll for damage, declare CF token to re-roll a die of choice.

I think it depends on the person on the other end of the table too. If you played me I would know what you were doing and wouldn't question it or say anything about how you resolve it.

That is executing the same command twice in one turn. Would be like me using a squadren dial to move 4 squads, not getting the last hit I needed to take down Tyco before his scatter refreshes, so I spend my token for one more TIE.

See, I really don't buy this interpretation, personally.

If it's being resolved in the same attack, it's the same command.

Since all of these effects are taking place during the same step, they're all simultaneous. I don't see the issue with waiting to decide if you will or will not spend the CF token.

After all, you can pre-measure your movement during "determine course" before you decide to spend your navigation token. Exactly what are we getting out of forcing people to decide to spend a token before they know if they need it?

The hard call, that's what fleet captains get the big bucks for. One way to look at it.

Or Another way , I don't know if I'm going to need 3 TIEs or 4 to get the job done, but I still have to commit before the shooting starts. Not like I can decide to commit to a fight that's allready finished.

Same with CF, just how CF do I need to be.....?

Yet another way to look at it is page 2 of the FAQ

Q: If a ship wants to spend a command dial and token of the

same type, does it have to spend them simultaneously?

A: Yes. It must already have both the dial and token, and must

spend them together

Cool thing about doing it this way is that if you ever decide to hit the Pro circut, you aren't going to have any bad habits to break. And you're less likely to have missunderstandings with cool new players from out of town.

So you have to commit the dial and the token at the reveal command dial. That's how I understand it. You burn the token to get the reroll but if you don't want to reroll the token is still spent. If I reveal a Nav command and have a Nav token could I increase/decrease speed by 2?

Reveal Command Dial, Determine use of command dial (CF to add 1 die of choice), Roll for damage, declare CF token to re-roll a die of choice.

I think it depends on the person on the other end of the table too. If you played me I would know what you were doing and wouldn't question it or say anything about how you resolve it.

That is executing the same command twice in one turn. Would be like me using a squadren dial to move 4 squads, not getting the last hit I needed to take down Tyco before his scatter refreshes, so I spend my token for one more TIE.

See, I really don't buy this interpretation, personally.

If it's being resolved in the same attack, it's the same command.

Since all of these effects are taking place during the same step, they're all simultaneous. I don't see the issue with waiting to decide if you will or will not spend the CF token.

After all, you can pre-measure your movement during "determine course" before you decide to spend your navigation token. Exactly what are we getting out of forcing people to decide to spend a token before they know if they need it?

The hard call, that's what fleet captains get the big bucks for. One way to look at it.

Or Another way , I don't know if I'm going to need 3 TIEs or 4 to get the job done, but I still have to commit before the shooting starts. Not like I can decide to commit to a fight that's allready finished.

Same with CF, just how CF do I need to be.....?

Yet another way to look at it is page 2 of the FAQ

Q: If a ship wants to spend a command dial and token of the

same type, does it have to spend them simultaneously?

A: Yes. It must already have both the dial and token, and must

spend them together

Cool thing about doing it this way is that if you ever decide to hit the Pro circut, you aren't going to have any bad habits to break. And you're less likely to have missunderstandings with cool new players from out of town.

I don't see anything stating that I can't wait until later in the *same step* to spend the token, though. It's all simultaneous, for game purposes.

All this restricts is your ability to spread the token and dial across multiple attacks.

Reveal Command Dial, Determine use of command dial (CF to add 1 die of choice), Roll for damage, declare CF token to re-roll a die of choice.

I think it depends on the person on the other end of the table too. If you played me I would know what you were doing and wouldn't question it or say anything about how you resolve it.

That is executing the same command twice in one turn. Would be like me using a squadren dial to move 4 squads, not getting the last hit I needed to take down Tyco before his scatter refreshes, so I spend my token for one more TIE.

See, I really don't buy this interpretation, personally.

If it's being resolved in the same attack, it's the same command.

Since all of these effects are taking place during the same step, they're all simultaneous. I don't see the issue with waiting to decide if you will or will not spend the CF token.

After all, you can pre-measure your movement during "determine course" before you decide to spend your navigation token. Exactly what are we getting out of forcing people to decide to spend a token before they know if they need it?

The hard call, that's what fleet captains get the big bucks for. One way to look at it.

Or Another way , I don't know if I'm going to need 3 TIEs or 4 to get the job done, but I still have to commit before the shooting starts. Not like I can decide to commit to a fight that's allready finished.

Same with CF, just how CF do I need to be.....?

Yet another way to look at it is page 2 of the FAQ

Q: If a ship wants to spend a command dial and token of the

same type, does it have to spend them simultaneously?

A: Yes. It must already have both the dial and token, and must

spend them together

Cool thing about doing it this way is that if you ever decide to hit the Pro circut, you aren't going to have any bad habits to break. And you're less likely to have missunderstandings with cool new players from out of town.

So you have to commit the dial and the token at the reveal command dial. That's how I understand it. You burn the token to get the reroll but if you don't want to reroll the token is still spent. If I reveal a Nav command and have a Nav token could I increase/decrease speed by 2?

"So you have to commit the dial and the token at the reveal command dial" well, you reveal the dial at the start of that ships activation. At that poing you get to cash it in for a token, or keep it.

Then comes the 4 points when you can chose to execute the four different commands.

Enginering, Cashing in, one, the other or both. Then spend the points to fix stuff.

Squadron, again with the Cashing in one, the other or both. and then spending the generated points.

Shooting. First roll the dice in you starting pool, it is possable you can't roll any due to damage, range and obstruction. THEN you MAY execute the CF comand by Cashing in, one, the other or both. Roll that die and see if you wasted the token.

Then Navigation Again you cash in the token, dial or both.

Dial means one extra click on the tool at a place of your chosing and +/- 1 speed

Token means +/- 1 speed

Dial+Token = +/- 2 speed and and extra click

Sorry for the long wind, but when I saw reveal, I though I should make sure we were on the same wave length.

Reveal Command Dial, Determine use of command dial (CF to add 1 die of choice), Roll for damage, declare CF token to re-roll a die of choice.

I think it depends on the person on the other end of the table too. If you played me I would know what you were doing and wouldn't question it or say anything about how you resolve it.

That is executing the same command twice in one turn. Would be like me using a squadren dial to move 4 squads, not getting the last hit I needed to take down Tyco before his scatter refreshes, so I spend my token for one more TIE.

See, I really don't buy this interpretation, personally.

If it's being resolved in the same attack, it's the same command.

Since all of these effects are taking place during the same step, they're all simultaneous. I don't see the issue with waiting to decide if you will or will not spend the CF token.

After all, you can pre-measure your movement during "determine course" before you decide to spend your navigation token. Exactly what are we getting out of forcing people to decide to spend a token before they know if they need it?

The hard call, that's what fleet captains get the big bucks for. One way to look at it.

Or Another way , I don't know if I'm going to need 3 TIEs or 4 to get the job done, but I still have to commit before the shooting starts. Not like I can decide to commit to a fight that's allready finished.

Same with CF, just how CF do I need to be.....?

Yet another way to look at it is page 2 of the FAQ

Q: If a ship wants to spend a command dial and token of the

same type, does it have to spend them simultaneously?

A: Yes. It must already have both the dial and token, and must

spend them together

Cool thing about doing it this way is that if you ever decide to hit the Pro circut, you aren't going to have any bad habits to break. And you're less likely to have missunderstandings with cool new players from out of town.

I don't see anything stating that I can't wait until later in the *same step* to spend the token, though. It's all simultaneous, for game purposes.

All this restricts is your ability to spread the token and dial across multiple attacks.

I'm sorry, my bad. I directly cut and pasted from the FAQ pdf, and the font got messed up. The small print kinda gets lost doesn't it.

I'll see if I can fix that.

Q: If a ship wants to spend a command dial and token of the

spend them together

OK, that looks a bit better.

I don't see anything stating that I can't wait until later in the *same step* to spend the token, though. It's all simultaneous, for game purposes.

All this restricts is your ability to spread the token and dial across multiple attacks.

You can only resolve each type of command once during the ship activation. So if you resolve the dial but not the token you've exercised your one resolution of the command for the activation. RRG page 4, near the top under the commands header started on page 3, "A ship cannot resolve the same command more than once per round."

When you resolve the command to add the die for concentrate fire you are doing your one time resolve of the command. You don't get to wait to see how that turns out and decide to resolve the command again by using the token.

Reveal Command Dial, Determine use of command dial (CF to add 1 die of choice), Roll for damage, declare CF token to re-roll a die of choice.

I think it depends on the person on the other end of the table too. If you played me I would know what you were doing and wouldn't question it or say anything about how you resolve it.

That is executing the same command twice in one turn. Would be like me using a squadren dial to move 4 squads, not getting the last hit I needed to take down Tyco before his scatter refreshes, so I spend my token for one more TIE.

See, I really don't buy this interpretation, personally.

If it's being resolved in the same attack, it's the same command.

Since all of these effects are taking place during the same step, they're all simultaneous. I don't see the issue with waiting to decide if you will or will not spend the CF token.

After all, you can pre-measure your movement during "determine course" before you decide to spend your navigation token. Exactly what are we getting out of forcing people to decide to spend a token before they know if they need it?

The hard call, that's what fleet captains get the big bucks for. One way to look at it.

Or Another way , I don't know if I'm going to need 3 TIEs or 4 to get the job done, but I still have to commit before the shooting starts. Not like I can decide to commit to a fight that's allready finished.

Same with CF, just how CF do I need to be.....?

Yet another way to look at it is page 2 of the FAQ

Q: If a ship wants to spend a command dial and token of the

same type, does it have to spend them simultaneously?

A: Yes. It must already have both the dial and token, and must

spend them together

Cool thing about doing it this way is that if you ever decide to hit the Pro circut, you aren't going to have any bad habits to break. And you're less likely to have missunderstandings with cool new players from out of town.

It is why I enforce and teach it.

You reveal a dial. You can then:

-Discard the dial in exchange for a token of the same type.

-Save the dial to use the full effects at the appropriate time.

Engineering and Squadrons happen next. If you have the dial or token or both you can use them now. You must spend both the dial and the token if they are the same type and you want the effects of both.

Then you attack (twice). This is where you can spend concentrate fire. If you are spending the dial and have the token, you must spend the token at the same time, even if there is a chance you will not reroll anything.

After attacking you move. When moving you can spend the dial to go +/-1 speed and/or increase yaw by 1 at a single joint, spend the token to go +/-1 speed, or spend both together to combine the effects.

Just to clarify, you can use the CF dial on one turn then the token on the 2nd attack, correct?

Just to clarify, you can use the CF dial on one turn then the token on the 2nd attack, correct?

No. You must spend them together, and then adding a die and the reroll must be used on that attack. You can add a die or reroll in any order. You must do so before resolving any other modifications though. You can't add a die from Concentrate fire, then add a die from Paragon, then reroll.

I don't see anything stating that I can't wait until later in the *same step* to spend the token, though. It's all simultaneous, for game purposes.

All this restricts is your ability to spread the token and dial across multiple attacks.

You can only resolve each type of command once during the ship activation. So if you resolve the dial but not the token you've exercised your one resolution of the command for the activation. RRG page 4, near the top under the commands header started on page 3, "A ship cannot resolve the same command more than once per round."

When you resolve the command to add the die for concentrate fire you are doing your one time resolve of the command. You don't get to wait to see how that turns out and decide to resolve the command again by using the token.

Alright, I can see this argument.

Resolving a command has to be one instance, and you have to pay the price for that instance at a particular moment, like how you spend defense tokens simultaneously and then apply their effects at the appropriate moments. The very reason you can't make use of an accuracy icon that you roll as part of an evade re-roll.

I stand corrected. Spend dial and token simultaneously.

I don't see anything stating that I can't wait until later in the *same step* to spend the token, though. It's all simultaneous, for game purposes.

All this restricts is your ability to spread the token and dial across multiple attacks.

You can only resolve each type of command once during the ship activation. So if you resolve the dial but not the token you've exercised your one resolution of the command for the activation. RRG page 4, near the top under the commands header started on page 3, "A ship cannot resolve the same command more than once per round."

When you resolve the command to add the die for concentrate fire you are doing your one time resolve of the command. You don't get to wait to see how that turns out and decide to resolve the command again by using the token.

Alright, I can see this argument.

Resolving a command has to be one instance, and you have to pay the price for that instance at a particular moment, like how you spend defense tokens simultaneously and then apply their effects at the appropriate moments. The very reason you can't make use of an accuracy icon that you roll as part of an evade re-roll.

I stand corrected. Spend dial and token simultaneously.

Defense tokens dont do this anymore, it was FAQ'd, you can wait and see the results of an evade token before making a decision on other defense tokens.

the faq says:

Q: Can a ship spend an evade token to reroll a die and wait to see the result before spending another defense token?

A: Yes.

It refers to the defender waiting...

But there's nothing that allows the attacker to use the newly rolled accuracy result, as the time for assigning those accuracy results has passed? Or would that only be true if the defender spent all its defence tokens first?

I'm confused...

the faq says:

Q: Can a ship spend an evade token to reroll a die and wait to see the result before spending another defense token?

A: Yes.

It refers to the defender waiting...

But there's nothing that allows the attacker to use the newly rolled accuracy result, as the time for assigning those accuracy results has passed? Or would that only be true if the defender spent all its defence tokens first?

I'm confused...

Gut feeling. I would go back to the modify dice rolls step for the evade reroll. Then go back through the steps. You can then spend the accuracy and other effects and the defender still gets to go through his defense token step again.