The vsd puts put more firepower per point spent than the ISD

You need to upgrade the ISD for offensive output, not the VSD

Could you elaborate on that please? If you calculate bow firepower the VSD II pays 14,1pts per die, the ISD II pays 12. Calculating all-around firepower (14 dice on a VSD, 21 dice on an ISD) its 6 pts per die on the VSD against 5,7 pts per die on the ISD. Braking it down on ranges is not going to cut it as the relation of long/medium firepower on both ships is equal/bow or very similar (all around). Not mentioning that your ISD platform carrying that firepower is actually more durable and more agile.

VSD II = 83 pts, 6 front dice = 13 pts/dice

ISD II = 120 pts, 8 front dice = 15 pts/dice

Woops, had 5red/5blue in mind somehow, and only a short look at fabs. My bad. Still, rounding down 13,83 to 13 is not good sport either. All around its still 6 pts on a VSD compaired to 6,3 pts on an ISD, on the bow I pay 1 pt more per die, still on a far more durable and maneouverable platform. So for raw firepower its still ISD most of the time for me..

Don't overvalue the maneuverability of the ISD either. I've seen a lot of people saying this, and having played a couple of games this weekend with i can say that the large base makes it a lot harder to fly than a medium base. it has more raw speed and clicks, but it's not at all easy to get full use from that.

Ultimately though, as mentioned the VSD is more efficient for frontal firepower. Havent run the numbers on hull+shields, but wouldnt be surprised if it wins there too on a "per point" basis.

Just checked, and yes the VSD is more resilient per point also:

ISD II costs 5.2 points per hull/shield

VSD II costs 4.7

It's actually a bit worse than that too, since the ISD gains more hull than Shields (gains 3 hull and 2 shields), and shields are better.

But the ISD has a lot more chance to make use of its front armament at full effect. In my experience at least the VSD only gets to use its main guns if:

a) its opponent makes a mistake

or

b) Its opponent is also a VSD.

Oh, i agree. To be clear, i'm not saying the VSD is better. It is however more efficient in many ways, and definitely a viable choice.

I actually think the best combo is a mix of SD types....1 ISD flanked by 2 VSDs is looking very strong to me as a basis.

Two Vic II's is 170 naked vs the 120 of an ISDII.

you get a lot extra for those 50 points (or maybe a lot more resilience..)

The first game you screw up with the placement of your ISD, the Vic II will appear to be better..

And it will happen, because i'll place two corvettes and 6 fighters and then what do you do?.. big ships kill initiative

I see the ISD II operating as a command ship, and playing the roll of fire support for at least one, if not two Victorys. Give the ISD Ion blisters, so it's guaranteed to do some damage, a tractor so it can slow down anything on the table, and maybe Advanced Projectors/redundant shields so it can take a beating. The Victory(s), with ACM or Enhanced Launchers, fly in on the flanks, get in close, and unload on the enemy. Not elegant, and dependent on your Victory surviving to get into close range to make the kill, but I think it's a reasonable strategy.

Here's an example of what you can do with the VSD. It's not optimized, just an example.

1 • Victory I-class Star Destroyer - Grand Moff Tarkin - Defense Liaison (114)

2 • Victory I-class Star Destroyer - Defense Liaison (76)
3 • Victory I-class Star Destroyer - Defense Liaison (76)
4 • Victory I-class Star Destroyer - Defense Liaison (76)
5 • TIE Bomber Squadron (9)
6 • TIE Bomber Squadron (9)
7 • TIE Fighter Squadron (8)
8 • TIE Fighter Squadron (8)
9 • TIE Fighter Squadron (8)
10 • TIE Fighter Squadron (8)
11 • TIE Fighter Squadron (8)

You have 4 basic VSDs with the only upgrade being the Defense Liaison to turn when you need it (and also repair). Tarkin will power the Liaisons while also powering the Squadrons. No dedicated carrier needed, nor spamming of squadron commands. This leaves you a line of powerhouse ships which you have enough of to make sure at least some of them will be getting close range bow shots. I'd probably fly 3 wide with Tarkin playing sweeper (behind the line to catch the flankers). The squadrons would need to be adjusted for your local meta.

Here's an example of what you can do with the VSD. It's not optimized, just an example.

1 • Victory I-class Star Destroyer - Grand Moff Tarkin - Defense Liaison (114)

2 • Victory I-class Star Destroyer - Defense Liaison (76)

3 • Victory I-class Star Destroyer - Defense Liaison (76)

4 • Victory I-class Star Destroyer - Defense Liaison (76)

5 • TIE Bomber Squadron (9)

6 • TIE Bomber Squadron (9)

7 • TIE Fighter Squadron (8)

8 • TIE Fighter Squadron (8)

9 • TIE Fighter Squadron (8)

10 • TIE Fighter Squadron (8)

11 • TIE Fighter Squadron (8)

You have 4 basic VSDs with the only upgrade being the Defense Liaison to turn when you need it (and also repair). Tarkin will power the Liaisons while also powering the Squadrons. No dedicated carrier needed, nor spamming of squadron commands. This leaves you a line of powerhouse ships which you have enough of to make sure at least some of them will be getting close range bow shots. I'd probably fly 3 wide with Tarkin playing sweeper (behind the line to catch the flankers). The squadrons would need to be adjusted for your local meta.

Quantity has a quality all its own doesn't it?

especially in Armada given the utility of having tons of activation to choose from

How many Tie pilots do I need to lose before it's just a statistic?

How many Tie pilots do I need to lose before it's just a statistic?

Well, all my Admirals have been told that TIE pilot pensions come out of their pay.....

Here's an example of what you can do with the VSD. It's not optimized, just an example.

1 • Victory I-class Star Destroyer - Grand Moff Tarkin - Defense Liaison (114)

2 • Victory I-class Star Destroyer - Defense Liaison (76)

3 • Victory I-class Star Destroyer - Defense Liaison (76)

4 • Victory I-class Star Destroyer - Defense Liaison (76)

5 • TIE Bomber Squadron (9)

6 • TIE Bomber Squadron (9)

7 • TIE Fighter Squadron (8)

8 • TIE Fighter Squadron (8)

9 • TIE Fighter Squadron (8)

10 • TIE Fighter Squadron (8)

11 • TIE Fighter Squadron (8)

You have 4 basic VSDs with the only upgrade being the Defense Liaison to turn when you need it (and also repair). Tarkin will power the Liaisons while also powering the Squadrons. No dedicated carrier needed, nor spamming of squadron commands. This leaves you a line of powerhouse ships which you have enough of to make sure at least some of them will be getting close range bow shots. I'd probably fly 3 wide with Tarkin playing sweeper (behind the line to catch the flankers). The squadrons would need to be adjusted for your local meta.

I like this list, but I can't run my Vic Is with out gunners and concusion

What about a victory 1 with slaved turrets? 79 points each. Just nail all dials to concentrate fire! Might work with Vader as your admiral?

That would be 5 red dice per shot with rerolls. Two running abreast would provide a pretty awesome killzone. Even if they got flanked they would still be firing 4 reds with CF.

Victory and Imperial Star Destroyers seem like one of the best platforms for Slaved Turrets...though I seriously am digging Heavy Turbolaser Turrets a LOT.

Heavy Turbolaser Turrets are really calling to me. Combine with Intelligence Officer to force your enemy into using his brace to stop your Vics damage and discard it, or just not use it at all.

Haha...I didn't even consider it paired with Intel Officer. That's evil. 4 red dice can roll quite a bit of damage; so forcing them to drain a ton of shields or lose the brace token on the first exchange of fire is pretty wicked.

Further made annoying with the Warlord title and a sensor team.