the TIE sf doesn't NEED a crew slot, but it would be nice. You could assume it has a permanent gunner shooting the rear arc.

The only thing it NEEDs is a rear arc, or the ability to fire out it's rear.

It also needs three attack as there is far too many two attack ships now.

It also needs three attack as there is far too many two attack ships now.

Not if it has the exact same guns as the FO TIE.

It also needs three attack as there is far too many two attack ships now.

Not if it has the exact same guns as the FO TIE.

Which it doesn't because it's also got a turret possibly two so clearly enough guns to warrant three attack, you could argue two from the rear.

It also needs three attack as there is far too many two attack ships now.

Not if it has the exact same guns as the FO TIE.

It also needs three attack as there is far too many two attack ships now.

Not if it has the exact same guns as the FO TIE.

Reckon there will be a Special Forces pack which has the black/orange X wing and this?

I think it will have an aux arc but only able to fire through it if you pay the points to have a turret equipped, even then it can only fire in the forward or Aux arc.

Makes it unique and not just another TIE fighter.

Gameplay-wise I can see how it would make sense for it to be a title with a rear arc shot or something similar. You could even give it a full blown turret but limit it to range 1 (Assuming the TIE spins sideways so the wings don't obstruct the side shots). But I'd be dissapointed if the Special Forces TIE is just a repaint with a title. That TIE is a distinctly different ship. They took the time to make the TIE/fo an entirely new sculpt - and that was ALMOST identical - so why wouldn't they do it for the Special Forces TIE?

Also the micromachines version of POE's X-Wing is extremely close to the regular T-70 X-Wing in terms of scale - you can just buy that one and glue it to a peg.

One suggestion I saw elsewhere was that it will have a crew, and the title will allow you to fire out the rear arc if you equip a crew card.

Very similar to the Ghost title, actually, since it's rear arc can only be used if the Phantom is docked.

Also, since the ship tile would have to be changed to really show a rear firing arc, a suggestion was that you could use maneuver templates to show where it can fire, perhaps anything a range 1-3 template could hit.

I think a simpler solution would be to allow it to fire at range 1 outside of arc, with a crew equipped.

One suggestion I saw elsewhere was that it will have a crew, and the title will allow you to fire out the rear arc if you equip a crew card.

Very similar to the Ghost title, actually, since it's rear arc can only be used if the Phantom is docked.

Also, since the ship tile would have to be changed to really show a rear firing arc, a suggestion was that you could use maneuver templates to show where it can fire, perhaps anything a range 1-3 template could hit.

I think a simpler solution would be to allow it to fire at range 1 outside of arc, with a crew equipped.

Interesting thought, but the YT-1300 can fire the turret 360 degrees without crew, so I suspect the special forces TIE will do that as well. It probably doesn't need a gunner or a title to fire backwards -- I think it's overly complicated.

Which it doesn't because it's also got a turret possibly two so clearly enough guns to warrant three attack, you could argue two from the rear.

Only if it could fire all 3 of those different guns together, which, currently, no ship outside the Titled Y-Wing can do.

I'm glad the TIE/FO isn't a repaint.

I'm glad the TIE/FO isn't a repaint.

I'm not. Because if the TIE/fo had been a Title, then I could have used the models towards a standard TIE swarm just by not using the Title. Also, then I could have put standard TIE pilots in a TIE/fo.

Instead, it's a completely separate ship that I'm unlikely to use for much.

Well that's just unfortunate. I can see some use for it, for sure.
It may not have the same attack as a TIE swarm, but it'll last a hell of a lot longer.

FOs are nasty bro

I'm glad the TIE/FO isn't a repaint.

I'm not. Because if the TIE/fo had been a Title, then I could have used the models towards a standard TIE swarm just by not using the Title. Also, then I could have put standard TIE pilots in a TIE/fo.

Instead, it's a completely separate ship that I'm unlikely to use for much.

Makes Epic a bit more interesting, though. All factions now have a 12 and a 15 point ship with two attack dice.

Well that's just unfortunate. I can see some use for it, for sure.

It may not have the same attack as a TIE swarm, but it'll last a hell of a lot longer.

Yeah, but if it'd been a Title, then, aside from the new dial, so would every TIE potentially.

Point is, I'd have had the option to go either way with each of my models. Instead, the two types are locked into their own stats.

Well that's just unfortunate. I can see some use for it, for sure.

It may not have the same attack as a TIE swarm, but it'll last a hell of a lot longer.

FOs are nasty bro

In a local tourney on Saturday I had Howlrunner and 5 TIE FOs outlast a traditional eight-TIE (4x AP, 4x OSP) swarm. Went to time. He had one AP left. I had an Epsilon and a pair of Zetas. The S-Loop and green 2 turns are awesome. That shield didn't hurt either.

On the TIE SF getting 3 attack: You cant make that call based on the number of guns. The Shuttle has 8 forward facing CANNONS and it only gets 3 red. The Phantom has 6 forward facing standard guns and it only gets 4.
Im guessing it will get a tech slot, and a turret slot with a smaller aux arc. If that.
The gun being able to shoot rare and FFG actually allowing it to shoot rear are not the same thing. (shuttle)

On the FO not being as good as the LN:
Are you dumb? I'd pay the extra for the shield and the EPT's coming out. The Ace's will only get more and more use as they become available.
Omega Ace and Epsilon Leader as a formation pair are a power house if Omega has PTL.
The LN just cant compete.

I would like to compare a Tie/fo Omega with Predator for 20 points to these statements.

"But the advanced can take a AC k turn and still get two hits where the fo will lack any ability to modify dice."

The advanced can ONLY 4K. This is very easy to counter. The Tie/fo can 4K and 2 Senger. The short senger is proving to be very useful and very hard to block. So now both ships are stressed the tie advanced has no actions but gets 2 auto hits. The Tie/fo rolls 2 die and can reroll one or two based on target pilot skill. I would like to have the auto hits but 2 die with predator can do ok. It is what happens next turn that makes the Tie/fo the winner. The advanced has crap options to shed it's stress. In fact it has Four options 2 and 3 forward and 1 bank. The Tie/fo has the entire 2 line and the three forward. The fo really wins here. So for a 20 point ship it is not out classed by the advance. In addition it has a white hard one.

"The tie fighter, interceptors and advanced can fill any roll the fo does, it over laps those ships but doesn't do better than them."

From above the Tie/fo out flies the advanced. For 20 points you get a pilot skill 1 Interceptor with autothrusters. Here is where it gets interesting. One on one fo vs interceptor the fo's come out on top. The fo's dial is a little better (2 senger) and predator allows both die to reroll against a PS 1 pilot. However ALL the Tie/fo's suffer when dealing with TLTs. The only counter they have is to shoot first. So here is where PS 1 Tie/fo's are big losers.

"It's too expensive to swarm generics, it lacks the punch of a squint and can't match the advanced generics for survivability and the named advanced are in my opinion superior to the similar priced aces."

A five ship Omega build with Predator can do very well. The dial allows you to get high PS aces in arc and this list shreds TLT spam. I have not played against a 7 or 8 ship Tie swarm but the fo's shooting first with predator makes me think they will do OK.

"That's without even mentioning the largely useless TL action, even the aces that benefit from a TL leave themselves wide open to do so three naked green dice won't keep a four hull ship alive long."

No counter point here. I have flown the Tie/fo a lot since it's release and have never used the TL. Just a waste of ink on the card.

"And once the TAP comes along with its ability to mount AT what role will the fo fill?"

If the TAP has a similar dial to the fo, well we will have to see.

If you do not think the Tie/fo is a useable ship try flying this to get used to it. After a few wins then go to x5 Omega with predator.

x3 Tie/fo Omega with Predator

x3 Tie Obsidian

On the TIE SF getting 3 attack: You cant make that call based on the number of guns. The Shuttle has 8 forward facing CANNONS and it only gets 3 red. The Phantom has 6 forward facing standard guns and it only gets 4.

Im guessing it will get a tech slot, and a turret slot with a smaller aux arc. If that.

The gun being able to shoot rare and FFG actually allowing it to shoot rear are not the same thing. (shuttle)

On the FO not being as good as the LN:

Are you dumb? I'd pay the extra for the shield and the EPT's coming out. The Ace's will only get more and more use as they become available.

Omega Ace and Epsilon Leader as a formation pair are a power house if Omega has PTL.

The LN just cant compete.

Not every shuttle has those eight canons.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lambda-class_T-4a_shuttle

Tie phantoms have five cannons.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/TIE/ph_phantom

If you look at the ships you see that ships with four guns get three attack as a rule.

And cba to yet again go over the deficiencies of the fo.

My guess would be this:

Advanced TIE FO

Attack 2

Agility 3

Hull 3

Shield 1 or 2

Missile, crew

Special forces TIE

Title upgrade card: you may gain the turret upgrade icon on your upgrade bar. You may only fire it in your primary and auxiliary (back) firing arc. 0 points

The Shuttle has 8 forward facing CANNONS and it only gets 3 red.

Because only 4 of those cannons are it's primary weapons. The other 4 are represented by it's Heavy Laser Cannon upgrade.

The complaints about the TIE/fo being a new ship really puzzle me.

Statwise, it's an imperial A-wing. A-wings are not terrible; neither is this, and it's got some funky tech slot stuff that promises to find niches on the aces later on as well.

Modelwise... People complained that they were scraping the bottom of the EU barrel to get new ship designs. Now a new movie comes out with new ship designs and people complain they didn't just make 'em all titles?

C'mon, guys.

I slaughtered a triple A list just last night with a defender and two advanced, superior firepower won out like it always does.

Fo's Arnt a-wings they can't boost, can't fire missiles and can't equip AT what is an imperial a-wing is the TAP.

Modelwise... People complained that they were scraping the bottom of the EU barrel to get new ship designs. Now a new movie comes out with new ship designs and people complain they didn't just make 'em all titles?

Calling the TIE/fo a new ship design is being ridiculously kind. It's a different paint job and some different lines on the hull.

The Royal Guard TIE had more differences from the Interceptor than the TIE/fo does from a TIE Fighter.

The Special Forces TIE/fo? Sure. That warrants a new model. Extra turret. Rear window. Cogs on the wings. I'm not thrilled that it still uses standard TIE Fighter panels, but there's enough there to justify it having it's own model.

Also, I for one, never complained about scraping the bottom of the EU barrel. There are still plenty of EU ships that I wanted to see more than these Ep.7 TIE Fighter repaints.

Remember when comparing the royal guard intercepter and interceptor to the TIE/FO to the special forces in regards to models, the Royal guard interceptor was never seen on screen, whereas the special forces TIE will be. I honestly suspect that every ship in the movie will end up in the game as an expansion, with new sculpts if needed, because it is far more recognizable to a larger group of people than a red interceptor with extra parts that showed up in, what was it, one comic book a decade ago?

Uh no you couldn't be more wrong.

"Star Wars Galaxies: Rage of the Wookiees (First appearance)"

The RGI was THE goal for MOST Imperial Pilots- and I don't need to tell you that a LOT of people played SWG.

Absolutely nothing compared to the number of people that will see these movies. Like literally less than 1%.

E-eh uh... Um...

...So?

Nobody cares about this nerd stuff but us... Brah.

Calling the TIE/fo a new ship design is being ridiculously kind. It's a different paint job and some different lines on the hull.

The Royal Guard TIE had more differences from the Interceptor than the TIE/fo does from a TIE Fighter.

How many movies has the Royal Guard TIE been in?

Because that's what's driving this. TIE/FO is a new ship in the new movie. It gets a model. The RG Interceptor is from a video game. It gets a repaint. Seems about right to me.