Mithel + Intel... It us stupidly letal I think. Against tie fighters of course.

This is going to be the main thing, I think. The Empire has crazy anti-fighter squadron synergies, including:

• Mithel + Chiraneau/Intel = 1 automatic damage (not an attack) to every target within distance 1 of Mauler
• Soontir + TA = 1 automatic damage (not an attack) per attacking within distance 1 of Soontir
• Boba = 1 automatic damage (not an attack) to one target within distance 1 of Boba upon activation
• Howlrunner + TIE Fighter/TIE Interceptor/Jumpmaster = 1 extra blue dice per anti-squadron attack and counter +1 within distance 1 of Howlrunner
• Dengar + squadron without swarm = counter 1 within distance 2 of Dengar
• Howlrunner + Dengar + squadron with swarm = counter 1 within distance 2 of Dengar, counter 2 within distance 1 of Howlrunner
• Howlrunner + Dengar + TIE Interceptor/IG88 = 5 blue anti-squadron within distance 1 of Howlrunner, counter 3 within distance 1 of Howlrunner or distance 2 of Dengar, counter 4 within distance 1 of Howlrunner and distance 2 of Dengar
• IG-88 = ignore counter, escort keywords on all targets

Moreover, any of these synergies can be paired with the Raider + Instigator + Ordnance Experts + Quad Laser Turrets (57 points). Or flight controllers on a VSD or ISD carrier for 6 points (Flight controllers + Dengar + Howlrunner + 8 TIE interceptors = 6 blue anti-squadron, counter 4, speed 5, swarm). The result is an absurd amount of anti-squadron firepower.

Rebels counter with... uh... Dutch + Wedge? Han shooting first? Dash with super-swarm on a unique unit? Flight-controlled X-wings? Jan passing out tokens? Speed 2 B-wings?

Basically, if an imperial player decides he's building a list to win the fighter war... he's going to win the fighter war, right?

Huge fan of those synergies you listed, but they are going to be pricy at best.. Howlrunner+Dengar, while applying buffs that no imperial squadron would not like to have, is already 36 pts before you start to add squadrons to make use of it. If expecting enemy interceptors you would also need some escort for Howl, or she will go down in a single squadron phase. I prefer the buff-depending squadrons of the empire over the selfish rebell squadron playstyle, but their is always the risk to go overboard with synergies and have a huge devastating fighter compartment with no real value outside of dogfights.

Mithel + Intel... It us stupidly letal I think. Against tie fighters of course.

This is going to be the main thing, I think. The Empire has crazy anti-fighter squadron synergies, including:

• Mithel + Chiraneau/Intel = 1 automatic damage (not an attack) to every target within distance 1 of Mauler
• Soontir + TA = 1 automatic damage (not an attack) per attacking within distance 1 of Soontir
• Boba = 1 automatic damage (not an attack) to one target within distance 1 of Boba upon activation
• Howlrunner + TIE Fighter/TIE Interceptor/Jumpmaster = 1 extra blue dice per anti-squadron attack and counter +1 within distance 1 of Howlrunner
• Dengar + squadron without swarm = counter 1 within distance 2 of Dengar
• Howlrunner + Dengar + squadron with swarm = counter 1 within distance 2 of Dengar, counter 2 within distance 1 of Howlrunner
• Howlrunner + Dengar + TIE Interceptor/IG88 = 5 blue anti-squadron within distance 1 of Howlrunner, counter 3 within distance 1 of Howlrunner or distance 2 of Dengar, counter 4 within distance 1 of Howlrunner and distance 2 of Dengar
• IG-88 = ignore counter, escort keywords on all targets

Moreover, any of these synergies can be paired with the Raider + Instigator + Ordnance Experts + Quad Laser Turrets (57 points). Or flight controllers on a VSD or ISD carrier for 6 points (Flight controllers + Dengar + Howlrunner + 8 TIE interceptors = 6 blue anti-squadron, counter 4, speed 5, swarm). The result is an absurd amount of anti-squadron firepower.

Rebels counter with... uh... Dutch + Wedge? Han shooting first? Dash with super-swarm on a unique unit? Flight-controlled X-wings? Jan passing out tokens? Speed 2 B-wings?

Basically, if an imperial player decides he's building a list to win the fighter war... he's going to win the fighter war, right?

The imperial will win the FIGHTER war. What happens to the 3 HP fighter ball when a couple of Escort Nebs or the rare AFM2a starts pouring in anti-squad fire?

Well... dengar howl and 8 tie fighters are 100 points. I wouldn't put an escort to howl rather than try to keep her safe with careful movement. Anyway I know I would taking risk.

Of course 100 point just for winning dogfighting are wasted if you fight against poor squadrons list. You always could change a Tie for rhymer. Blue dice without bomber are not awesome but help (they are with me... I always fail my black shots but my tie fighters make a hole in the hull everytime... I don't understand it XD).

Well... dengar howl and 8 tie fighters are 100 points. I wouldn't put an escort to howl rather than try to keep her safe with careful movement. Anyway I know I would taking risk.

Of course 100 point just for winning dogfighting are wasted if you fight against poor squadrons list. You always could change a Tie for rhymer. Blue dice without bomber are not awesome but help (they are with me... I always fail my black shots but my tie fighters make a hole in the hull everytime... I don't understand it XD).

You're like my friend I used to play Settlers of Catan with. If he was in the game, 11s were going to be rolled a LOT. Better to be on an 11 than a 6 or 8. (He should have been playing Craps instead)

A lot of these ideas are missing escort, which is essential to the rhymer ball. I think dengar is a must so that you can't have your ball locked out, and IG-88 makes a strong case to beat up on foreign named pilots who are going to give you a bad time.

This means the remaining points need to be spent on advanced to keep these named guys alive, which doesn't leave much room for bombers to deal the damage.

A lot of these ideas are missing escort, which is essential to the rhymer ball. I think dengar is a must so that you can't have your ball locked out, and IG-88 makes a strong case to beat up on foreign named pilots who are going to give you a bad time.

This means the remaining points need to be spent on advanced to keep these named guys alive, which doesn't leave much room for bombers to deal the damage.

Agreed.

To be honest in my current rhymer ball, only rhymer is a bomber. I honestly do it with TIEs and Interceptors. Sure a blue dice isn't the best mathematically speaking, but a damage is still a damage and it forces them you to come into your squadrons. Rhymer may be the only thing 100% staying from my Wave 1 tech moving into Wave 2

Mithel + Intel... It us stupidly letal I think. Against tie fighters of course.

This is going to be the main thing, I think. The Empire has crazy anti-fighter squadron synergies, including:

• Mithel + Chiraneau/Intel = 1 automatic damage (not an attack) to every target within distance 1 of Mauler
• Soontir + TA = 1 automatic damage (not an attack) per attacking within distance 1 of Soontir
• Boba = 1 automatic damage (not an attack) to one target within distance 1 of Boba upon activation
• Howlrunner + TIE Fighter/TIE Interceptor/Jumpmaster = 1 extra blue dice per anti-squadron attack and counter +1 within distance 1 of Howlrunner
• Dengar + squadron without swarm = counter 1 within distance 2 of Dengar
• Howlrunner + Dengar + squadron with swarm = counter 1 within distance 2 of Dengar, counter 2 within distance 1 of Howlrunner
• Howlrunner + Dengar + TIE Interceptor/IG88 = 5 blue anti-squadron within distance 1 of Howlrunner, counter 3 within distance 1 of Howlrunner or distance 2 of Dengar, counter 4 within distance 1 of Howlrunner and distance 2 of Dengar
• IG-88 = ignore counter, escort keywords on all targets

Moreover, any of these synergies can be paired with the Raider + Instigator + Ordnance Experts + Quad Laser Turrets (57 points). Or flight controllers on a VSD or ISD carrier for 6 points (Flight controllers + Dengar + Howlrunner + 8 TIE interceptors = 6 blue anti-squadron, counter 4, speed 5, swarm). The result is an absurd amount of anti-squadron firepower.

Rebels counter with... uh... Dutch + Wedge? Han shooting first? Dash with super-swarm on a unique unit? Flight-controlled X-wings? Jan passing out tokens? Speed 2 B-wings?

Basically, if an imperial player decides he's building a list to win the fighter war... he's going to win the fighter war, right?

Imps had ridiculously powerful fighter-combos before wave 2. however the issue is that they are combos. In order to work they all have to be at the same place, at the same time. This has two main downsides: Firstly this makes them easy targets for anti fighter barrage. Secondly this makes it easy to outmaneuver them. You can spread out your squadrons to force your opponent to either hunt down maybe 1-2 bases per turn or spread out and lose your advantages. You could also place your squadrons cleverly to engage one key enemy-squadron to force him to activate in an unfavorable order.

Mithel + Intel... It us stupidly letal I think. Against tie fighters of course.

This is going to be the main thing, I think. The Empire has crazy anti-fighter squadron synergies, including:

• Mithel + Chiraneau/Intel = 1 automatic damage (not an attack) to every target within distance 1 of Mauler
• Soontir + TA = 1 automatic damage (not an attack) per attacking within distance 1 of Soontir
• Boba = 1 automatic damage (not an attack) to one target within distance 1 of Boba upon activation
• Howlrunner + TIE Fighter/TIE Interceptor/Jumpmaster = 1 extra blue dice per anti-squadron attack and counter +1 within distance 1 of Howlrunner
• Dengar + squadron without swarm = counter 1 within distance 2 of Dengar
• Howlrunner + Dengar + squadron with swarm = counter 1 within distance 2 of Dengar, counter 2 within distance 1 of Howlrunner
• Howlrunner + Dengar + TIE Interceptor/IG88 = 5 blue anti-squadron within distance 1 of Howlrunner, counter 3 within distance 1 of Howlrunner or distance 2 of Dengar, counter 4 within distance 1 of Howlrunner and distance 2 of Dengar
• IG-88 = ignore counter, escort keywords on all targets

Moreover, any of these synergies can be paired with the Raider + Instigator + Ordnance Experts + Quad Laser Turrets (57 points). Or flight controllers on a VSD or ISD carrier for 6 points (Flight controllers + Dengar + Howlrunner + 8 TIE interceptors = 6 blue anti-squadron, counter 4, speed 5, swarm). The result is an absurd amount of anti-squadron firepower.

Rebels counter with... uh... Dutch + Wedge? Han shooting first? Dash with super-swarm on a unique unit? Flight-controlled X-wings? Jan passing out tokens? Speed 2 B-wings?

Basically, if an imperial player decides he's building a list to win the fighter war... he's going to win the fighter war, right?

Imps had ridiculously powerful fighter-combos before wave 2. however the issue is that they are combos. In order to work they all have to be at the same place, at the same time. This has two main downsides: Firstly this makes them easy targets for anti fighter barrage. Secondly this makes it easy to outmaneuver them. You can spread out your squadrons to force your opponent to either hunt down maybe 1-2 bases per turn or spread out and lose your advantages. You could also place your squadrons cleverly to engage one key enemy-squadron to force him to activate in an unfavorable order.

48 points in howl and 4 tie figthers who can remove the problem of b-wings or a rhymer ball (even without killing them, just forcing to do what you say) looks cheap for me. If they get some points... just better.

honestly, not at all impressed with imperial "combos"

putting too much stock in synergy greatly diminishes a fleet's flexibility, which is something squadrons already have to deal with. It's even worse for imperials since they tend to get hyper specialized which just skews your list into matchups.

for my money, I just ran Rhymer with Advance (screw soontir) backed up by a generic interceptor and Mauler (screw chiraneau) as a 2nd wave. The advance pull double duty as bombers or fighters and either follow Rhymer or engage enemy squadrons first to cover for Mauler and the interceptor.

the only synergy there is flight controllers on a VSD when needed. The rest is all saved points to devote to more black dice for killing ships. Squadrons function just dang dandy without the need to pour points into enabling a bit of extra damage, especially Mauler who

just dives right in and disengages himself by getting **** done.

the more I played them, the more I've come to appreciate the relative flexibility of the Tie Fighter and the Tie Advance (especially the Advance because goddamn 3 health is fickle) more than the stiff specialization of the interceptor and bomber. being able to adapt to different concentrations of enemies is essential. With the super specialists, I never go overboard anymore; just taking one or two as insurance (apart from Rhymer, because he's freaking Rhymer)

with Wave 2, I'm looking forward more to the independent Rogues than anything. The Firespray offers some incredible flexibility, ditto Bossk but with some added lethality

Exactly what Duskwalker said, all those potentially great combos the Imps have access to demand a lot of investment, points and strategy-wise. If you are able to bring the combo without it getting countered or outmaneouvered you deserve some advantage. After all, your buffers are 3/4 Hp and thus not exactly tough.

Rebs can also make use of some great ship-to-squadron synergies, I bet every Imp would like to bring a gallant haven or yavaris equivalent..

Exactly what Duskwalker said, all those potentially great combos the Imps have access to demand a lot of investment, points and strategy-wise. If you are able to bring the combo without it getting countered or outmaneouvered you deserve some advantage. After all, your buffers are 3/4 Hp and thus not exactly tough.

Rebs can also make use of some great ship-to-squadron synergies, I bet every Imp would like to bring a gallant haven or yavaris equivalent..

Yavaris of course but you can keep your gallant haven. We don't need it XD

I think the investment is not as great. The power of these combos maybe makes the people crazy and they say "if I am going to play with Howl I will need 10 tie fighters" and it is not right. You need to know what do you want to kill and find the cheaper way to do it and imp is really good doing this (at least with squadrons).

Rhymer + 3 bombers (43).

Howl + 4 fighters (48)

Mithel + 2 advanced + chiraneau/jumpmaster (49/51*) *wave 2 version

Rhymer + 2 advanced + soontir (58)

Rhymer + vader + advanced + soontir (67)

Rhymer + 2 firespray (52) + bomber/jumpmaster (61/64)

Dengar + Howl + 3 fighters (60)

Rhymer + jumpmaster + 2 advanced (52)

...

All of these can kill more points than their cost easily. I don't play for winning the fighters battle... there is no fighters battle, there is just a battle. I don't care about loose my squadron, I care about make them pay for it. You must know what do you want from your squadrons and just do it. I put some ideas (there is a lot) of bombers, dogfighting and multitask combos and their price is not crazy.

I have not run the numbers, but what about running a raider as an escort for the bomber wing in lieu of fighter escorts? It's faster, it can tie enemies up with the one title, (and it is difficult for them to get unengaged) and it's got more than enough speed to keep up.

Has anyone thought about this or tried it?

I have not run the numbers, but what about running a raider as an escort for the bomber wing in lieu of fighter escorts? It's faster, it can tie enemies up with the one title, (and it is difficult for them to get unengaged) and it's got more than enough speed to keep up.

Has anyone thought about this or tried it?

It's a good idea, and it's been suggested by some in one of the Raider threads. The strategy should work if you have Instigator, and if the enemy's fighters are out in advance and you can tie them up before your bombers run into them. The problem will be if your Raider is moving with your bombers (everyone's tied up at that point), or if the enemy has their fighters mixed with bombers (you don't want a Raider taking fire from 3+ B-wings). If you run an intel squadron with your bombers, that at least will keep them moving if you run into a fighter furball.

Huge fan of those synergies you listed, but they are going to be pricy at best.. Howlrunner+Dengar, while applying buffs that no imperial squadron would not like to have, is already 36 pts before you start to add squadrons to make use of it. If expecting enemy interceptors you would also need some escort for Howl, or she will go down in a single squadron phase. I prefer the buff-depending squadrons of the empire over the selfish rebell squadron playstyle, but their is always the risk to go overboard with synergies and have a huge devastating fighter compartment with no real value outside of dogfights.

Absolutely agree, the cost becomes prohibitive at some point (especially if one wants to include an ISD, or 4+ ships, or a fully-kited out Demolisher...)

That said, Ovinomanc3r has identified some combos which take advantage of one (or several) of these synergies for a relatively low cost. Some are more specialized (Rhymer + 3 bombers primarily for anti-ship; Dengar + Howl + 3 fighters primarily for anti-squadron), but others are good multi-purpose (Rhymer + 2 firesprays + jumpmaster, for example, gives medium-range, Intel, two Rogues, and pretty decent anti-squadron/anti-ship batteries). A nice fighter synergy between 4-5 squadrons for 60ish points, plus support from a Raider for 50ish points, offers a lot of flexibility in the squadron game (more than Rebels have, at least), while still leaving two-thirds to three-fourths of your point total available for the meat of your fleet.

I came with another two thing I didn't consider the first time.

rhymer + 2 firespray could be manage by raider+hangar+yularen if you can't wait for squadron phase. 56 points carrier. 60 with a title

The 2 blue antiship interaction with precision strike. Firespray could cancel a damage to trigger the 15 victory points and still doing damage. Tie bomber don't.

My experiences with Firesprays thus far is that they are better than tie bombers.

I think people are focusing on the wrong aspects with regards to the dice:

you have a 25% chance to roll a blank or a hit/crit

putting the chance (iirc my probability math correctly) at 4 damage to be the same as 0 damage @ about 6%

they have a 50% chance to roll 2 damage (as 2 x single damage) and a 12% chance to roll 2 damage as a hit/crit + blank = ~62%

a 25% chance to roll 1 damage

2 blue dice have the same chance to roll zero damage (6%) and zero chance to roll 4 damage

and a SEVENTYFIVE percent chance to roll 2 damage with the remainder going to rolling 1 damage with an accuracy (which in my experience is FAR from useless)

(I will check with my buddy who is a mathematician later on these numbers and update as needed)

In my experience here is the resulting outcome: When shooting with firesprays opponents are more likely to spend defense tokens when you roll 2 damage especially if you have several and they refused to do so on the earlier shots, since there is such a high % chance of 2 damage this happened a LOT and opens the ship up to a Ship to Ship attack, meaning it's worth it to plot ONE (and often only 1) squadron command when battle is first joined.

Firesprays, in my experience, are more reliable damage, and being the FREQUENT victim of rolling 4 black bomber dice and getting 1 or 2 total damage I would much rather minimize the RNG and get consistent damage for the points.

Also the rogue keyword is a SOB and what really pushes the value above and beyond just "2 tie bombers"

My favourite trick is to use Rhymer as a toothless Firespray jockey, in the squadron phase I move him first to a suitable position then follow with the firesprays giving them a medium range attack in the squadron phase. Try doing that with plain old tie bombers.

Firesprays can also lock down enemy fighters in a pinch letting you sacrifice 1 to give the rest of them free reign (see rhymer jockey)

3 blue anti squadron dice is also orders of magnitude better than 2 black when dealing with aces (locking down that scatter FTW) I could also do the math on these but a quick estimate in my head also points to a MUCH more consistent damage curve, blacks can spike but max at 2 where blues max at 3 and probably have a highly reliable 2

I find players also like to try and ignore your firesprays and go for the rhymer jockey first, which is just fine by me because if you play them right you don't even really need rhymer and in the meantime you can counter with a decent amount of blue dice.

All in all in my analysis I think Firesprays are the bombers of choice going forward and to that end I already own five (which I think should be plenty with rhymer and a tie advanced as a sacrifice escort)

All in all in my analysis I think Firesprays are the bombers of choice going forward and to that end I already own five (which I think should be plenty with rhymer and a tie advanced as a sacrifice escort)

I cannot wait to field my own. My ideal Fireball is Rhymer/Dengar/Firesprayx4.

All in all in my analysis I think Firesprays are the bombers of choice going forward and to that end I already own five (which I think should be plenty with rhymer and a tie advanced as a sacrifice escort)

I cannot wait to field my own. My ideal Fireball is Rhymer/Dengar/Firesprayx4.

I am loving Dengar. if you can spare the points the guy provides a pile of value.

All in all in my analysis I think Firesprays are the bombers of choice going forward and to that end I already own five (which I think should be plenty with rhymer and a tie advanced as a sacrifice escort)

I cannot wait to field my own. My ideal Fireball is Rhymer/Dengar/Firesprayx4.

I think you can fit another one in there! Boba is a perfect fit actually.

All in all in my analysis I think Firesprays are the bombers of choice going forward and to that end I already own five (which I think should be plenty with rhymer and a tie advanced as a sacrifice escort)

I cannot wait to field my own. My ideal Fireball is Rhymer/Dengar/Firesprayx4.

I think you can fit another one in there! Boba is a perfect fit actually.

I could shove Boba in to hit the 134 exactly, but then I'm losing upgrades on the ISD. Several Upgrades. Most of them.