With the timeline of RT (presumably) the same as in DH, where are the Tau now in thier development (technology, vessels, ordnance etc.) and timeline?

MDMann said:

The Damocles Gulf Crusade to eliminate the Tau took place in 742.M41 (about 73 years ago, to the 'current year' for Dark Heresy), and most of what the Tau have now, they had then. A few differences exist - some ships had not yet been put into service (the Lar'shi , or Hero, class cruiser and the Kir'qath or Protector class escort were both developed in response to Imperial Navy ships - the Lunar-class and the Sword-class, respectively, and all the Tau ships produced by Forge World represent a redevelopment of the Tau fleet after the crusade). A few smaller-scale weapons technologies were still beyond the reach of the Tau at this early point as well - Rail Rifles, for one, and the newer XV-25 Stealth Suit design - and attack craft continue to develop as well (the AX-1-0 prototype Tiger Shark bomber was developed during the Third Phase Expansion, long after the DH timeline).

As of the normal 40kRP timeline (that is, setting the year as 815.M41), the main difference in the Kor'vattra - the Tau Fleet - would be the general absence of the newer designs (those produced by Forge World).

If the newer designs for the Tau fleet are not yet in operation then what craft are in the picture on page 188 cause they look **** near like some of my forge world Tau craft?

eeek, I must push timeline forward then.

Love it! GW created another fluff complication- No we have to contend with advancements in Tau technology. At this rate how long before they match imperial technology... how long infact before they develop their own titan infact

Captain Harlock said:

The Tau already have a counter for the Titans, the Tau Manta Drop Ship.

It isn't a fluff complication, because the 40k timeline doesn't advance any more. As for matching Imperial technology, though they lag behind in some areas, they've already outstripped the Imperium in most areas.

Agreed.

And yes on page 188 are the splendid beautiful effectice Protector class cruisers from FW Tau.

What areas do they lag behind in? Warp capability perhaps... But I gather from reading fluff that some imperial technology baffels them. Its it the case that the mechanicus has archeotech from before the age of strife that they can operate but no longer able to build?

Captain Harlock said:

Correct. Some aspects of human technology is amazingly advanced - some of it in day-to-day usage. But how it works is often completely unknown to them. They can actually build more of some of these designs - they still make Titans, for example, though it takes decades - but they are just following instruction 'manuals' (STC remnants for the most part). This can result in dangerous mistakes, glaring inefficiencies etc.

When someone in the Ad Mech does figure out how something works, he rarely tells his fellow cultists. Knowledge is power in the Cult of the Machine God - the more secrets you know the more you are respected. This cripples the spread of knowledge and advancement - and makes it far too easy for knowledge to be lost.

All this means that the most advanced technology the Imperium has available to it is extremely rare. Most of the 'common' technology available to them is inferior to the standard gear the Tau have available to them. The advanced Imperium tech can also be erratic, due to poor maintenance and handling.

The Tau have guided missiles. So much better then standard torpedoes. But, yes, Cpt Harlock is right.

Krisstoff said:

Depends on the precise time the ships were introduced - it wouldn't, obviously, be the entire updated fleet all in one go, but rather different classes phased in over decades and centuries as the designs are developed and tested.

Beyond that, I was going entirely with supposition and speculation - all we know for certain is that the newer designs were not around until after the Damocles Gulf campaign, as they were developed in response to lessons learned from battles with the Imperial Navy. The exact year is completely unknown.

horizon said:

Standard torpedoes are guided... but they only use their guidance systems on final approach (the last few hundred kilometres). They're also massive and hugely destructive devices. Tau guided missiles are significantly smaller and must be deployed in far greater numbers to match the effectiveness of the standard torpedoes used by the Imperium (as noted in Battlefleet Gothic: Armada, every point of torpedo strength for Tau missiles represents 10 actual missiles - for torpedoes, every point of strength is a single torpedo). We know of specialist non-standard torpedo designs in use by the Imperium as well, with guided/seeking torpedoes amongst them.

macd21 said:

Out of curiosity on that point (the timeline no longer advancing), what's the official word on that? Will GW ever continue to advance the timeline, or have they stated a conscious decision to stop advancing things at where they are?

Adam France said:

As far as I know nobody has come out and said that they were done advancing the timeline, I think the issue is that "Warhammer 41,000" just doesn't have the same ring to it and the table-top timeline has already reached the latter years of M41.

In short, without "resetting" the timeline and infuriating nerd-scholars everywhere, they can't really move it forward anymore without entering M42.

Leopold Cygnus said:

Interestingly the Ciaphas Cain novels are all introduced by an inquisitor writing in the early years of M42, although all of Cain's adventures are firmly set in M41. The only hint of the future revealed is that the Necron threat is more open and growing.

Also the Tau answer to Titans is not the Manta, but a variant of the Tiger Shark fighter-bomber, the AX-1-0, equipped with two heavy rail guns. These were such a shock for the Imperials during the Taros campaign that the Titan legion withdrew their three remaining Warhounds rather than take anymore losses after one was destroyed by a Tiger Shark.

DW

They could still call it "40k" even if they moved things up to 42,000. But it's hard for them to advance the plot meaningfully without either making some really major setting-shaling changes or just saying "whelp, the Space Wolves won this and that battles, these sectors had Necron trouble, the Tau fought some Orks, Eldar continue to be mysterious, etc." So I can understand them just leaving things alone until they're ready to make a big leap.

A touch derailed but... The problem (one of them) of moving things along is that you then have to deal with the aftermath and reprecussions of the 13th Black Crusade, which could be quite problematic.

The funny thing with Games Workshop is their ability to slide new things into the established timeline. The most obvious example is all the C'Tan elements that were, perhaps clumsily, slotted into the 'War in the Heavens' ancient Eldar background. That... Didn't go down too well. Funny thing with Tau is that in the big timeline in the 40K Rulebook an entry for a Tau attack on a colony is right next to the entry for the destruction of the Crimson Fist's Chapter Monestary. The Crimson Fist fluff was written during 1st edition 40k (which I just had to edit, as 'Rogue Trader' would cause confusion... ) while the Tau were a 3rd edition addition. Over 10 years between being written and now sit side by side on the timeline.

Anyway, more on topic: The Tau Empire is right across the galaxy from the Expanse, which foiled my hopes of using them in a major way in my game. 'The Processional of the Damned' has given me some ideas on how to include at least small amount of them, however.

What if the 13th tribe of the Tau set up shop in the Koronus Expanse and someday a rag-tag fleet of Tau, fleeing Imperial tyranny, will come looking for them?

HappyDaze said:

Then the Cylons...errr... Necrons will come after them... LOL

GW can't possibly go forward with the timeline without doing something majorly earthshaking and that would mess up the tenuous balance of the galaxy that is going on at this point. If the necrons fully awaken, they kill everything, if the Tyranids show up, they eat everything, if the eldar finally die...The point is THIS is the exciting point in the timeline when it all works together so they can sell to everybody on all sides of the fence. Its like playing a world war 2 game set in the 1940's. That is when the action is. That is how you sell Germans, Russians, Italians, Japanese, English, Americans etc. Nobody would want to play a WW2 game set in the 1950s and you couldn't sell half as many armies.

Anyway its best not to stress over timelines and all that unless it is really integral to the plot, such as directly IN the Damoclese gulf battle. All of my games are played in the 40k setting as a whole, not just a specific year. That way everyone knows what is pretty much going on and we don't get hung up on stuff like "This ship didn't come out until next campaign year" or "The last remaining Imperial Jetbike was destroyed five years ago".

Meh. moving 50, 100 maybe even 500 years into m42 wouldn't mean that there would be drastic changes to the overall story.

Until a few years ago GW were slowly moving the timeline forward, but they realised that doing so was hurting their products, so they stopped (the same applies to Warhammer - they've actually moved the timeline back to before the Storm of Chaos).

Moving the timeline has to negative impacts - it makes the game slightly less attractive to new players (who have trouble catching up on the ever increasing amount of fluff) and it reduces the value of the licences (which is what really worries GW). Companies considering buying a licence for a computer game, board game, roleplaying game etc won't pay as much for a setting with a moving timeline. This is because their work could be invalidated by future events. Imagine if a company had produced a computer game featuring Squats... only for GW to declare that the Squats had been wiped out by the nids. Or imagine if the next GW summer campaign was set in 001.M42 and was titled "The Tyrant Star Campaign: Death of the Calixis Sector"... a lot of DH and RT fans might be a tad upset.

There are so many unwritten human sector out there I won't see a problem there. They could take a new sector for that. They could transfer that setting to m37 as well and back and forth and back.

horizon said:

Sure... as long as you do it in the past, that's fine. But you either have a policy of advancing the timeline or you don't. If you advance the timeline at all licencees won't pasy as much as they would otherwise. Promising "we won't do anything in the sector of space you guys are using" will only partially molify them. GW could always introduce changes that radically alter the entire Imperium. So in order to maintain the value of the licences they've stopped advancing the timeline.

Somewhat off topic but do you think the Tau will make it into the supplement for Xenos FFG is hinting at? Even if it's just a "This is the stats for the Tau, how you fit them into your game is your own problem." sort of deal?