if u use accuracy corrector, can my opponnent change one dice back to a focus with sensor jammer or no?
accuracy corrector ignores sensor jammer?
Not only does the opponent modify before you cancel your result and add two Hits, but your dice cannot be modified again.
Edited by RydiakNo.
And I'm a newb so let me see if I get my sequence of events right
At the point where an AC ship rolls dice:
Dice are rolled
1) Defender can force attacker to re-roll dice
2) Attacker can re-roll any dice (exception: a die may only be re-rolled once per attack)
3) Defender modifies attacker's dice.
4) Attacker modifies his own dice.
So at step 3, your defender can do whatever the heck he wants to your dice, including making you re-roll them. It is at this stage where your defender will modify one of your die into a focus that cannot be re-rolled.
At step 4, you take your dice, whatever they are, mock them pitilessly, remove them from the board and tell your opponent that he has two hits to roll evade dice against.
Clear and accurate, I hope.
Edited by heliodorus04It is actually simpler than that:
Attack dice are rolled.
Defender modifies.
Attacker modifies.
Then obviously you move on to defense dice, where the attacker modifies first and then the defender modifies.
At the point where an AC ship rolls dice:
Dice are rolled
1) Defender can force attacker to re-roll dice
2) Attacker can re-roll any dice (exception: a die may only be re-rolled once per attack)
3) Defender modifies attacker's dice.
4) Attacker modifies his own dice.
Rerolling is not a separate modification. Your 3 and 4 are correct, but your 1 and 2 are not.
Both attacker and defender can, when it's their phase, use any modification abilities they want, in any order. That can freely mix rerolls and standard modification as you will.
Easy way to remember it, your opponents gets to modify your dice before you do (whether green or red).
Just to reiterate: the ultimate result is that because Sensor Jammer will always be activated before Accuracy Corrector, you can't use SJ to affect the results added by AC.
As per the Rules Reference under "Attack":
(erased due to mistakes pointed out by Parravon)
May the Dice be with you.
Edited by MarioziAs per the Rules Reference under "Attack":
4 - Roll Defense Dice: The defender rolls a number of defense dice equal to its agility value. (Then inside this step:)
The defender resolves any card abilities that allow him to roll additional or fewer defense dice. (NOT Accuracy Corrector case as you don't roll any dice and it does not specify a timing like C3-PO)
If defending at Range 3 against a primary weapon attack, the defender rolls one additional defense die.
If the attack is obstructed, the defender rolls one additional defense die.
All additions or subtractions to the number of defense dice being rolled occur before the player rolls the defense dice.
5 - Modify Defense Dice: The attacker can resolve any card abilities (Sensor Jammer happens HERE) that allow him to modify the defense dice. Then the defender can modify his defense dice in one or more of the following ways as many times as possible:
Focus: The defender can spend a focus token to change all of his (eye) results to (evade) results.
Evade: The defender can spend an evade token to add one (evade) result to his defense roll.
Card Ability: The defender can resolve a card ability that modifies defense dice and that he has not already resolved during this attack. (Accuracy Corrector happens HERE)
6 - Compare Results...
May the Dice be with you.
The FAQ states on page 1, that Accuracy Corrector is used during the "Modify Attack Dice" step, NOT the "Modify Defense Dice" step.
Edited by ParravonAnd if it didn't, then it would go to Step 6 as a cancellation ability.
Sorry, my mistake, here it is then:
2 - Roll Attack Dice: The attacker rolls a number of attack dice equal to its primary weapon value; if it is attacking with a secondary weapon, it rolls attack dice equal to the attack value on that weapon’s Upgrade card instead.
The attacker resolves any card abilities that allow him to roll additional or fewer attack dice (NOT Accuracy Corrector case as it doesn't roll any additional dice).
If attacking at Range 1 with its primary weapon, the attacker rolls one additional attack die.
All additions or subtractions to the number of attack dice being rolled occur before the player rolls the attack dice.
3- Modify Attack Dice: The defender can resolve any card abilities (Sensor Jammer happens HERE) that allow him to modify the attack dice. Then the attacker can modify his attack dice in one or more of the following ways as many times as possible:
Focus: The attacker can spend a focus token to change all of his results to results.
Target Lock: The attacker can spend a target lock he has on the defender to reroll any number of his attack dice.
Card Ability: The attacker can resolve a card ability (Accuracy Corrector happens HERE) that modifies attack dice and that he has not already resolved during this attack.
Then Roll & Modify Defence Dice, and Compare Results.
And if it didn't, then it would go to Step 6 as a cancellation ability.
Its not a cancellation ability, it's a dice modifying ability.
"When defending you may CHANGE 1 of the attacker's (hit) results to a (focus) result. The attacker cannot reroll the die with the changed result"
So that die is immune to Target Lock, but can still be cancelled by Accuracy Corrector or even be changed back using a focus token.
I was referring to Accuracy Corrector. Which you had wrong as well.
And if it didn't, then it would go to Step 6 as a cancellation ability.
Its not a cancellation ability, it's a dice modifying ability.
"When defending you may CHANGE 1 of the attacker's (hit) results to a (focus) result. The attacker cannot reroll the die with the changed result"
So that die is immune to Target Lock, but can still be cancelled by Accuracy Corrector or even be changed back using a focus token.
He was referring to Accuracy Corrector.
None of the effects happens at the step 6 - Compare Results.
Both are modifying abilities and happen as described inside the step 3.
None of the effects happens at the step 6 - Compare Results.
Both are modifying abilities and happen as described inside the step 3.
You're going to make me explain the whole thing, aren't you? Okay, fine.
Cancellation effects are resolved at the beginning of Step 6 (Compare Results). This was hotly debated, but it's accurate. It's why Accuracy Corrector got the errata it did to move it to the modify step, because that was where they wanted it. Now, they muddied things a bit by removing the rule that states that from the new rule book, but the recent ruling then reversal on Crack Shot basically means it's still there.
So you were wrong on when Accuracy Corrector happened. Parravon pointed out that you'd missed the errata. I pointed out that without the errata it would be in Step 6. You, then... well, I'm honestly not sure where you're trying to go with any of this. Maybe dig out a little from being so very wrong, but you're just digging deeper.
Please just accept your mistakes and move on, this discussion is going to be very confusing for new players.
^^ True that
to put it simply: VorpalSword & Rydiak got it right.
As I said and its in the FAQ, AC happens INSIDE the "modify step" (step 3).
SJ happens in the same step but before AC.
Aside from secondary weapons and other abilities (Bossk i.e..) that require an evaluation to see if they "hit" (compare) for them to have their effects (ions for example) and thus MUST happen after the compare results and before taking damage, only R4-D6 (with a very defined text) and Crack Shot (FAQed to the start of the "Compare Results") and AC (FAQed to the Modify step) exists. I have found no definition of "cancellation effects" in the rules and a "general timing" of their applicability on the rules as they stand. All cases above of the word "cancel" on abilities are very well defined.
Edited by Mariozito put it simply: VorpalSword & Rydiak got it right.
As I said and its in the FAQ, AC happens INSIDE the "modify step" (step 3).
SJ happens in the same step but before AC.
You're still sounding a bit confusing.
2. Roll Attack Dice
3. Modify Attack Dice
3.1 Defender Modifies (Sensor Jammer here)
3.2 Attacker Modifies (Accuracy Corrector here)
Followed by:
4. Roll Defense Dice. etc, etc.
to put it simply: VorpalSword & Rydiak got it right.
As I said and its in the FAQ, AC happens INSIDE the "modify step" (step 3).
SJ happens in the same step but before AC.
Aside from secondary weapons and other abilities (Bossk i.e..) that require an evaluation to see if they "hit" (compare) for them to have their effects (ions for example) and thus MUST happen after the compare results and before taking damage, only R4-D6 (with a very defined text) and Crack Shot (FAQed to the start of the "Compare Results") and AC (FAQed to the Modify step) exists. I have found no definition of "cancellation effects" in the rules and a "general timing" of their applicability on the rules as they stand. All cases above of the word "cancel" on abilities are very well defined.
What the hell, keep digging!
You correctly point out that "cancellation effects" aren't defined in the rules. That's my term. But they aren't anything else, either. Dice modifications are actually defined, as Adding, Rerolling, and Changing. No canceling to be found. So what is an effect which cancels dice? It's not a modification, and there's no definition for cancel effects, and there's no timing trigger on the card (e.g. Crack Shot) so... when do you use it?
If we go back to the previous rules incarnation, we find this:
All abilities that allow players to cancel dice must be resolved at the start of the “Compare Results” step.
That's why Accuracy Corrector needed the errata it did to move it to the Modify step.
Now, I'm sure you'll point out that this phrase doesn't exist any more - and you're right! But was the removal an oversight? At this point, we have to take a bit of a leap. We can either think that the removal was a mistake, and that there is a point where Crack Shot can be used, or they removed it on purpose, and Crack Shot will never trigger.
They did add the FAQ for the ruling, but does it change anything? I dunno - there have been any number of cases where they've made rulings that should be errata. But we've already had one case where a card got actual errata to move it AWAY from that timing rule (Accuracy Corrector). And Crack Shot came out during the old rules, when it would naturally have an opportunity at the beginning of Step 6.
So again, is the rule gone? Would Crack Shot even have an entry if they hadn't tried to move it to be a modification, like Accuracy Corrector, before deciding to move it back? <shrug> No idea, honestly. But, ONCE AGAIN, I'll point out that my comment was directed more at Parravon than you, a minimal side comment on the history behind Accuracy Corrector.
So please, for the last time - put away the shovel. You're really not helping anything at this point.
I was kinda hoping that one would stay buried.
I was kinda hoping that one would stay buried.
And I actually thought it was, with the FAQ ruling on Crack Shot. I thought they were going to move towards cancellation effects being just like any other, able to be used during the modification steps. That would have been a pretty simple solution, barring the terminology overlap with Compare Results and canceling.
But then they reversed it... and now I honestly don't know what to think it is. Is the rule still there? Is it gone, and Crack Shot is an errata-by-ruling? <shrug> Who knows. For now, like with so many things in X-wing, they've slapped a Band-Aid on it, and it's good enough to get through a game. Whenever we get another effect that cancels dice, we'll see how they rule that one and hope it functions as a tiebreaker.
My head hurts after reading this! Is the errata for Cshot in 3.21 or 3.22?
Buhallin,
Keep your sarcasm to yourself if you're not able to keep it out of a respectful discussion.
Im not digging myself into anything.
If there's any digging being done it's by you digging unnecessarily old rules in a simple situation.
Seems that we all agree that SJ happens before AC, so no need to fuss about it.
My only point is that TODAY all the situations that cause dice results to be "cancelled" are very precisely described in our CURRENT documents (Learn to Play, Rules Reference, FAQ, Tournament Rules). And when someone comes up with a doubt, I prefer to back up my explanation with actual, up to date, rules texts explaining how to fit these doubts within the current docs.
May the Dice be with you.
My head hurts after reading this! Is the errata for Cshot in 3.21 or 3.22?
FAQ 3.2.2 is the current, page 10
"Crack Shot must be used at the start of the “Compare Results” step."