Best not to worry about meta and counter meta, you will end up owning 6 of every ship trying to do this.

I am confused ... is this suppose to be a bad thing? If so, I have been very, very, bad. Many times over.

Please don't tell anyone.

Lo! the TLTs have come, hear ye hear ye 'tis the end times for all fat turrets...not gonna stop me from putting 2 decimators on the table for the lols. Fly what you like and like what you fly...I might strongly dislike seeing the same build over and over again, but at the end of the day we're just moving plastic spaceships around a table for a good laugh.

I always want to fly Captain Yorr with 3 red PtL Royal Guard TIE Interceptors but I never do because pilot skill 6 is meaningless (in my area the TLT meta hasn't taken hold yet) and they just autodie to fat turrets.

Being hit by three Conner Nets at once is autodeath.

Three PTL Royals against a Fat Turret have an uphill battle (facing a Luke Skywalker Falcon when all I had was a few core ships and Imperial Aces was what made me hate Falcons back in Wave 3), but it's hardly automatic death.

Swap out one of the Royals for a PTL Omega Ace CritEngine^TM and then equip Yorr with a stress upgrade to shut down Fat Turret's actions and you've got a decent squad there.

I think you shouldn't discount a list because it's a bad match up. Just learn to fly it in a clever way. An example is last night I set up with my 4 x Scimitar Tie Bombers list last night across the table from Etahn w/ 3 Z-95's and a B-wing. That's a really bad match up for my list. What I did, though, was try to think of a way that I could pull off a win. I was able to stay just outside of shot range and then zipped in fast in an attempt to cause bumpage. After that, I would be able to drop bombs and 5 K-turn. What went wrong, though, was I bumped one of my Tie Bombers with my own ship, which caused it's death and most likely the game.

My point, though, is that you can learn how to fly lists against lists that might be not the best match up on the table. There are ways to beat things then relying purely on Mathwing and jousting numbers.

I have not had as much fun flying any fleet than with my Howlrunner Swarm, particularly after I teched in some Bombers for hull-strength.

Sadly, the MOV changed, and it's no longer as competitively viable, though I do wreck with it in Escalation if the opponent hasn't prepped some anti-swarm tech.

Howlrunner

+ Adrenaline Rush

4x Academy Pilot

2x Scimitar Pilot

Foes will typically try to kill Howlrunner first, and the Scimitars second due to their points, which is great for me, as the Scimitars have much higher survivability-to-cost ratio, and a much less predictable dial, so I can send the enemy on a wild goose-chase as my remaining Academies eat them from behind.

Also, yes, that's Adrenaline Rush on Howlrunner. I like having initiative, and I like having an action on my first Koiogran of the game, as otherwise that first Koiogran of the game is the turn in which Howlrunner dies.

Alpha-Strike is a Swarmish Evolution, and I have grown fond of it. It too gets shut out in a High PS metagame, but operates quite well in this point-sink meta.

"Oh, I'm sorry. There was supposed to be a ship there, wasn't there?"

Lieutenant Blount

+ XX-23 S-Thread Tracers

+ Veteran's Instincts

5x Bandit

+Concussion Missiles

A whopping 18-19 expected damage vs a single target on the first round of combat, pre-mitigation.

Then its a 6 Z-95 swarm vs whatever fleet you have remaining, and I have a massive MoV lead to boot.

The worst games I have are those when someone shows up with a terrible squad "I'm just here to have fun" etc. I'm here to play the game, if you hamstring yourself by refusing to play quality squads what the heck is the point in win loss?

Because for some players, the journey is more important than the destination. They don't really care where they are going (win or lose), as long as the travel (playing the game) is fun. They probably think that their worst games is when someone show up with a big Meta list; they are there to have fun, what's the point of having 25+ ships available when you always take/go up against the 4-5 same ships every game?

My suggestion for you would be to bring your A-List and an experimental list. When going up against someone only there to have fun (legit expectation when playing a game), take this opportunity to experiment with units you are not used to, or combos that look good on paper but are not sure how it really interact on the field. Even though it's not against a big meta list, some things can be learned from those games and you might just find a combo outside the current meta that you really like to fly.

As for the Meta getting me out of my list builds, no. It doesn't affect me. But I'm not stupid either, so when I go into a tournament, I take it into consideration. But I prefer to take the ships I want to use at the moment and find a way to make them work even if they are not optimal. The meta didn't stopped me from taking a Defender and Bombers in a tournament during the wave 5 Phantom and turret meta and it didn't stopped me from taking 3 Vigo and a Z-95 in another. I consider myself a competitive person, but I still prefer to take a list that I know I will enjoy playing all day long instead of copy pasting the current big list. Once the tournament is over, I change list; been there, done that, time to move on to someting else, there is 25+ ships in this game after all.

In my store championship, I completely expected turrets and Fat Han in particular. I kitted out my Aggressors with that in mind. And of course, I didn't see a single Fat Han the entire tournament. There was one lone Decimator that I never got to face.

Since then, I've been less concerned with counter lists and I'm more interested in finding a diverse list that's fun to fly. Then I focus more on how to counter-fly certain lists instead of counter-build against them.

Lots of good ideas!

After reading through these posts about Empire ships, It occurs to me that I need to play more games!

I really like the Soontir hunter Jax with VI. I like the basic punisher, and tend to fly it like an A wing. There are some generic small points ships that I saw suggested and I need to try.

If you just want lists to smash TLT's, then I humbly submit the 4 x Gamma Squadron Tie/b w/ EM and Homing Missiles. You get to keep the TL for re-rolling your dice. You should get TL easy and fire first. Three missiles should kill a Y-wing. If they hit with every TLT, then you lose one Bomber. Next, you take out another Y-wing, but don't lose a Bomber. You are then firing main weapons at a weaker opponent. You should win out.

If you are looking for ways to fly better, I suggest watching the "Rule of 11" video on YouTube. It's a system to help you guess when you will be in firing range (or how to just stay out of it). It should help you with any of your ships vs. TLT's. If you are able to just barely be out of range, and then zip in fast, you should be golden.

While I agree with most sentiments of "Don't worry about it, just go to have fun", sadly, it's extremely difficult to have fun when you are getting tabled by meta lists game after game.

So, my advice is...

1- Make a list on your own, disregarding meta entirely.

2- Look at your list in regards to the meta after completing it. Is it competitive? If so, congrats! If not, use your list as a base for a new build, and make adjustments as necessary to allow the list to perform better against the meta. While this may not result in a significant increase in wins for your list, minor adjustments allow games against meta lists to be overall more enjoyable games, even if the opponent's list is still superior. A loss to dual IGs who's hull you haven't even cracked into yet, is down right infuriating. But in a match where you are able to blow an IG up and give the other at least a scare, well... Even if a loss, it feels much like a win .

3- If you really are looking to go and win with a non-meta list, it's likely going to take a good number of practice games with the list before the tournament. This is an obvious point of course, but being familiar with your list and it's weaknesses and strengths will make all the difference.

On another note, I really do wish there was a way to run a tournament that promoted non-meta conforming lists, because it really is fun to take non typical builds in a competitive setting.

Because for some players, the journey is more important than the destination....

This.

Everything else you said was just icing.

Cheers

Baaa

I will admit that Imps have been taking a beating with the last two releases. I think the Imp meta is now Vader Soontir and Palpmobile instead of RAC Soontir/Whisper. Whisper should be able to handle TLTs quite well and only has to worry about 1 Rebel Y-wing which doesn't work out of arc.

Because for some players, the journey is more important than the destination....

This.

Everything else you said was just icing.

Cheers

Baaa

I have my moments. Not many of them, but I do have them.

I certainly don't worry about meta. I like to run A-Wings and HWK-290s for crying out loud.

yeah I play what ever... sometimes i even put squads together based on "Looks"..lol or even the look on my opponets faces!! (4 space cows)... my last game i played I flew Jonus with 3 other Tie bombers loaded with missiles. against a brobot and 2 space butterflies. I lost big time as I attempted to chase down a single butterfly while letting the brobot get behind me. BUT the few times I did manage to get off a missile attack it was devastating until Jonus got whacked... It is fun to beat folks with a weird list...

I have no idea what you are talking about.

The worst games I have are those when someone shows up with a terrible squad "I'm just here to have fun" etc. I'm here to play the game, if you hamstring yourself by refusing to play quality squads what the heck is the point in win loss?

Because for some players, the journey is more important than the destination. They don't really care where they are going (win or lose), as long as the travel (playing the game) is fun. They probably think that their worst games is when someone show up with a big Meta list; they are there to have fun, what's the point of having 25+ ships available when you always take/go up against the 4-5 same ships every game?

My suggestion for you would be to bring your A-List and an experimental list. When going up against someone only there to have fun (legit expectation when playing a game), take this opportunity to experiment with units you are not used to, or combos that look good on paper but are not sure how it really interact on the field. Even though it's not against a big meta list, some things can be learned from those games and you might just find a combo outside the current meta that you really like to fly.

As for the Meta getting me out of my list builds, no. It doesn't affect me. But I'm not stupid either, so when I go into a tournament, I take it into consideration. But I prefer to take the ships I want to use at the moment and find a way to make them work even if they are not optimal. The meta didn't stopped me from taking a Defender and Bombers in a tournament during the wave 5 Phantom and turret meta and it didn't stopped me from taking 3 Vigo and a Z-95 in another. I consider myself a competitive person, but I still prefer to take a list that I know I will enjoy playing all day long instead of copy pasting the current big list. Once the tournament is over, I change list; been there, done that, time to move on to someting else, there is 25+ ships in this game after all.

**** RIGHT!

I have been an RPG Reff for over twenty years, which is why I can have an absolute ball running solo games.

Recently I chased a few Imp Probes around in a dense asteroid field for like three hours; and it was better than winning some meta-centric-turnamant any day.

Many people here in the PROFESSIONAL Clan would find that type of game very trite and boring... I can't feel bad for 'em.

Because for some players, the journey is more important than the destination....

This.

Everything else you said was just icing.

Cheers

Baaa

Nah I just play what I want to play and not worry about what others play. Taking my deci+soontir list to a tournament next Sunday, I will let you know

Of course you don't get 'meta-ed' out of list building with your Deci Soontir.

I think there is definitely a case for getting 'meta'd out' of an old list, this is a growing and evolving game! Every wave adds more possibilities, and those possibilities must be accounted for. If you suddenly realize that you old list is rubbish against a new ship or upgrade, you should probably rethink your list. This is a totally normal part of any game with new releases. Luckily for us, this game is quite balanced and most ships can find a place in any 'competitive' squad.