I have been continually frustrated with Empire squad builds. They can't make well rounded squads. TLT is highlighting this.

My general meta concerns in no particular order; being able to drop a Y/B wing in the first round, surviving TLT by 4, not failing at Soontir, avoiding stress mechanics ruining my game.

That a big wad of mess to have to build around. I have been eyeballing Colzet on and off for a while now and I just cant nustify her with TLTs looming. Anyone else e experiencing meta problems(the dog barks because it's a dog, not because I'm sleeping?!?!)?

Nah I just play what I want to play and not worry about what others play. Taking my deci+soontir list to a tournament next Sunday, I will let you know

I have stopped thinking about "anti-lists" - I make the list that I want to play, and don't worry about the other lists.

If I go to a tournament and face 5-6 TLT lists, then it's just like that...

Best not to worry about meta and counter meta, you will end up owning 6 of every ship trying to do this. Just have fun with what you fly, and if you win great, and if you lose oh well. Unless your in the final round of worlds for a championship I wouldn't really worry about meta to much.

I want to try a Triple Phantom list for the heck of it. Is it meta? NO lol. Will it be fun? Yes (at least I think so).

Isn't Colzet perfectly decent against TLTs? Low cost, high agility, decent hit points, higher PS than Thugs, relevant ability? Maybe not as good as a pair of Obsidians, but not bad either.

how the hell is TLT highlighting this?

the shift from Academy to Obsidian is not a very expensive one, plus it protects v predator

Well, previously PS3 was pretty much just protection against Predator and the occasional Blue. Now it ensures that you shoot before one of the most dangerous ships in the game, maybe even barrel roll into its donut hole.

how the hell is TLT highlighting this?

the shift from Academy to Obsidian is not a very expensive one, plus it protects v predator

They still die in droves, even more so now that 4 attack is easy to come by.

And Predator still gives a single die re-roll.

My X wing pals play competitive squads and we have fun doing that. I know I can fly 6 HWKs in a squad.

If I fly a bad squad I might not have so much fun. I always build my own squads and don't net deck.

The worst games I have are those when someone shows up with a terrible squad "I'm just here to have fun" etc. I'm here to play the game, if you hamstring yourself by refusing to play quality squads what the heck is the point in win loss?

I'll fly what lists I want and feel comfortable flying if I win with them then all well and good, if not then it's not the end of the world just learn from any and all errors I may have made and correct them in the next game

yeah I play what ever... sometimes i even put squads together based on "Looks"..lol or even the look on my opponets faces!! (4 space cows)... my last game i played I flew Jonus with 3 other Tie bombers loaded with missiles. against a brobot and 2 space butterflies. I lost big time as I attempted to chase down a single butterfly while letting the brobot get behind me. BUT the few times I did manage to get off a missile attack it was devastating until Jonus got whacked... It is fun to beat folks with a weird list...

Actually I've been playing 4 Y wings for about six months now, since Scum dropped, so I'm in good shape atm cuz now they're even better.

It's very simple.

"Scissors cuts paper, paper covers rock, rock crushes lizard, lizard poisons Spock, Spock smashes scissors, scissors decapitates lizard, lizard eats paper, paper disproves Spock, Spock vaporizes rock, and - as it always has - rock crushes scissors."

Or, in other words, why worry? Play what you want to play, what you think you'll enjoy and have fun playing, because no matter how much you try to cover all the bases, there'll always be a list out there that'll give you a hard time.

**** the meta... I am here for Glorious STAR WARS TOYS.

EVERY SHIP in my collection are viable.

Course I had to fix a few FFG mes-sups with my own rules and cards and suches.

I always try to include some meta flavor in my lists, but give it some tweaks so it's my own. Iggy B with Mangler, FCS PTL, AT, and a couple starvipers worked for me. I'm working on a new dash build that has won its only game so far. Nothing game breaking, just VI, recon, proton rockets and anti-pursuit lasers in addition to the standard HLC. If I get mobbed I've got a good chance at maiming one ship, and then relying on those giant 3 banks to get me out of trouble where usually the outrider doesn't move so fast. And then I shoot ahead of you.

Nah I just play what I want to play and not worry about what others play. Taking my deci+soontir list to a tournament next Sunday, I will let you know

Of course you don't get 'meta-ed' out of list building with your Deci Soontir.

**** the meta... I am here for Glorious STAR WARS TOYS.

EVERY SHIP in my collection are viable.

Course I had to fix a few FFG mes-sups with my own rules and cards and suches.

You have??? Seriously house ruled stuff? I thought you ignored talk about efficiency and stuff.

**** the meta... I am here for Glorious STAR WARS TOYS.

EVERY SHIP in my collection are viable.

Course I had to fix a few FFG mes-sups with my own rules and cards and suches.

You have??? Seriously house ruled stuff? I thought you ignored talk about efficiency and stuff.

Very TRUE Brah but FFG has not done everything that I want to see, and they do mess up... Xamples: NO Vigos for my BLACK SUN, the weakness of T-65's and TIE Defenders... and so forth.

I have had my own cool in-house-stuff for all of these issues and more, for a while now.

I think the danger is in trying to over come meta lists in the squad build only.

That's not to say don't think about meta lists when you build your squad, but it's just as important, if not more so, to have a plan that leverages your squads strengths against the opponents weaknesses.

The new meta will fall to the glorious Empire the same way all the previous ones have:

TIE swarms

The Original meta since Wave 1!

We've swapped a defensive meta for an offensive one. If you want to compete you probably need to make some tweaks.

I run a Sigma with ACD. People used to laugh at me. Now I am the one laughing.

I have been continually frustrated with Empire squad builds. They can't make well rounded squads. TLT is highlighting this.

My general meta concerns in no particular order; being able to drop a Y/B wing in the first round, surviving TLT by 4, not failing at Soontir, avoiding stress mechanics ruining my game.

That a big wad of mess to have to build around. I have been eyeballing Colzet on and off for a while now and I just cant nustify her with TLTs looming. Anyone else e experiencing meta problems(the dog barks because it's a dog, not because I'm sleeping?!?!)?

Have you considered a TIE bomber toolbox? 25 points can get you a lot.

Some examples:

PS2 Scimitar /w EM, Plasma Torpedoes, Conner Nets

PS2 Scimitar /w EM, Flechette Torpedoes, Assault Missiles

PS2 Scimitar /w EM, Seismic Charges, Assault Missiles

PS4 Gamma /w EM, Flechette Torpedoes, Ion Pulse Missiles

PS4 Gamma /w EM, Flechette Torpedoes, Advanced Homing Missiles

PS4 Gamma /w EM, Seismic Charges, Plasma Torpedoes

PS4 Gamma /w EM, Seismic Charges, Ion Pulse Missiles

PS4 Gamma /w EM, Seismic Charges, Advanced Homing Missiles

PS4 Gamma /w EM, Flechette Torpedoes, Proximity Mines

A lot of these loadouts can also be put on the good ol' Firespray using the Slave 1 title and Extra Munitions.

Most high point or arc-dodgy ships loathe Conner Nets, and Proximity Mines can lay down some serious pain too. Assault Missiles deter formation attacks, which are useful against B-wing swarms (and against B-wings they're not likely to miss), and Plasma Torpedoes rip through B-wings like nothing else. Seismic Charges also aren't fun for massed ships.

Colzet, like any TIE advanced, can take a free Sensor Jammer if you want to troll TLTs. It'll hurt your offensive output but if you have a really severe TLT infestation it might be worth it.

The Lambda Shuttle's also usually a good buy. Advanced Sensors Fleet Officer Yorr is incredibly versatile and comes recommended by Hothie himself. At the start he can Adv Sensor Fleet Officer to hand out focus to your ships and he can also merrily eat stress to protect your other ships from stress attack. That, and he comes with a 3 dice gun.

As chilligan said above, ACD generic TIE phantoms also laugh in the face of TLTs, especially if you've got the points to mount Sensor Jammers on them.

Failing that, a Howlrunner Obsidian Swarm (or even a Zeta Swarm) isn't going to be fun for a TLT mob, and their large numbers means stress bothers them less too. Even less if Epsilon Leader's been chucked into the mix.

Also, Colzet's a guy with a stupid moustache. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Akal_Colzet

Xamples: NO Vigos for my BLACK SUN

PS3 StarViper pilot?

Howl
Obsidianx2
Zetax2
Doomshuttle

Look a swarm with 4 more HP and auto crit potential. Howlrunner is an 18pt Biggs who buffs attacks till dead. 4TLTs can't kill a doomshuttle before it dooms one of them. If the 3 remaining TLTs don't go all in on the shuttle round 2 it will doom a second. Should leave 2 FO's and 1-2 obsidians vs. 2 tlt ywings at range 1. Not a perfect theory but should work often enough. If it doesn't go good ole obsidian swarm or swap in a black squad with swarm tactics for an FO to let the shuttle shoot first (with howlrunner reroll!).

Might like that black squadron swap even better now that I think of it.

Long live the Empire! Forever lives the Swarm!

I always want to fly Captain Yorr with 3 red PtL Royal Guard TIE Interceptors but I never do because pilot skill 6 is meaningless (in my area the TLT meta hasn't taken hold yet) and they just autodie to fat turrets.

K turn towards the lambda, ditch the stress. Then Push the Limit and ditch the second stress if you want. It looks cool, is thematic, and is fun to fly.