I was wondering how many people use Starvipers and why you would take one in a list if you have an Aggressor.

I bought a Starviper primarily for the Autothrusters and haven't used it much. I don't have the Aggressor yet, but am wondering whether the Starviper is a viable ship in a mixed list. The Black Sun PS1 and PS3 ships do not have a EPT and I'm not sure if they would be a good investment in a list versus other builds. Comparing the ships, I see the following:

- Comparable High PS skill (Xizor versus the IGs) is 31 to 36 points with 3 less shields and 4 less upgrades. 32 is you add the Virago to get 2 upgrades.

- StarViper is less maneuverable than the IGs.with 5 versus 9 green maneuvers and a 4 straight versus 4K. (The dial kind of reminds me of a Tie Advanced.)

- Pilot abilities seem less useful than the IG88s. Guri is interesting, but I'm not big on Xizor's ability.

Does anyone have good lists utilizing this ship? I want to try it out but am not sure the point justify it versus something else.

A couple reasons. You are not great at manuevering Large bases. You want something cheaper than a fully tricked out Iggy.

Personally, I just flew a StarViper for the first time last weekend. 2 generics PS1s with Autothrusters. They were some nice blockers and nasty on the defense vs the K-wings and Y-2400 they were facing. I still really want to try out Guri. Xizor's ability may not be the greatest at the moment vs TLTs, but with the proper cheap HP, he can be annoying to kill.

Both named pilots are amazing. Xizor is less awesome now that TLTs exist (negate his ability) but I am sure I could kit him out differently, like with sensor jammer, for a good effect. I love flying them and if I had two jammers I would fly both.

Aggressor

*high forty-fifty point range

*large base; hates obtacles

*cannons

*arc-dependent + large base = emphasis on red manuevers

*8 hull + 3 agility + system + cannon + thruster = will out roll any large ship 1v1

Viper

*Higher thirty to forty point range

*small base; 1-turn + choice of segnors +roll makes obstacles easy to navigate

*just your normal 3-primary with potential system slot

*Guri's ability + predator = will devour any lower PS pilot out there

*Xizor's PS 7 + ability = nigh immortal god among men who can challenge vader/soontir while giving less of a **** about green dice

so really, there is absolutely no overlap in the two ships

they fufill completely different roles and go in completely different squadrons

for Aggressors, it's two ship

for Vipers, I highly recommend an accompanying mini-swarm. Xizor practically requires it.

also, TLTs shooting Xizor is still preferable to them shooting anything else in your squad. Xizor not having his ability doesn't change the fact that he out PSes TLTs while packing boost (and roll!) and thrusters

You can fit two Starvipers in a 4 ship list.

You can fit four StarVipers in a four ship list.

I played a Xizor + mini-swarm quite a bit and went to Regionals. I was able to destroy every Bro Bot list I played and lost once to a Phantom and the other to bad dice (even my opponent almost felt sorry for me).

Xizor needs to take Flechette Torp. to give that stress to your opponent on that crucial round when he needs his actions. It's great on bro bots when they try to bait you and then can't bug out. They are left facing 5 Z-95's and Xizor.

Not played him with TLT's, but then again, I haven't faced 4 TLT's yet.

You can get 2 generic Starvipers for the price of one tooled up IG-88.

I run 2 naked starvipers with my fully kitted iggy B. Iggy draws all the threat, the starvipers do the heavy lifting. It's a thing of beauty when it works.

I've never had any luck with low PS StarVipers. I think Guri is the only way to go, unless you have a mini-swarm to support Xizor. Guri + Aggressor might be an interesting pair--throw Guri into the fray and keep your Aggressor at range to pick off ships Guri (+VI) sets up.

One additional argument against IGs is also the new large ship rules concerning MOV. Also without this rule, I would prefer the starviper (especially Guri). I just hate that the starviper doesn´t have a green turn maneuver. It should be a mixture of the Interceptor and A-wing. Therefore, the ship is hard to play with Push the limit (which you should take if you have both, barrel roll and boost)

I occasionally like to run Guri with LW, Sensor Jammer, Autothrusters (and some kind of Illicit depending on costs in rest of list). This is 39 points.

Because Guri is middle of the pack in PS, her stolen focus tokens often end up used on defense. The most similar Aggressor ability, I think, is the boost-to-evade of C. With the same upgrades, that one comes to 44 points.

In tournament play, 88C can be worth half of that 44 after a few shots are landed on him. The same number of shots might outright kill Guri. Of course, adding a cannon to 88C improves his offensive capabilities and both can gain a bit from their illicit slot (if nothing else, Glitterstim one round a game, which is offensive and defensive).

Both being middling for pilot skill, they're going to have plenty of issues with aces. Such a defensive build might them out of TLT trouble but really need more offense to properly deal with that issue, I think.

Let's be clear on one thing (looking at you Ficklegreendice). An Agressor does not have to be a 45-50 pts ship. An Agressor with AT is an amazing 38 pt ship. Just because it's not as frequently used in this way doesn't mean that it's not a great option. If you can't fly large ships, you are absolutely dead set on a PS 9 (or higher) or when you've only got 35 pts left in your list (or 37 pts for me cause I wouldn't take one without AT). It's a great ship and has been since it launched.

I love flying them and if I had two jammers I would fly both.

I can say from experience that those who dismiss a pair of Black Sun Enforcers do so at their peril.

Let's be clear on one thing (looking at you Ficklegreendice). An Agressor does not have to be a 45-50 pts ship. An Agressor with AT is an amazing 38 pt ship. Just because it's not as frequently used in this way doesn't mean that it's not a great option. If you can't fly large ships, you are absolutely dead set on a PS 9 (or higher) or when you've only got 35 pts left in your list (or 37 pts for me cause I wouldn't take one without AT). It's a great ship and has been since it launched.

it really isn't an amazing 38 pt ship. There is nothing at all impressive about an aggressor with a mediocre (or literally useless ability, looking at you B) farting around when you could have Xizor at Ps 9 for one point less (with FCS AND thrusters)

crutching on a slightly better defender profile with

a.) no action efficiency

b.) completely average attack

c.) large base + one arc weakness with none of the strengths the aggressor's bar + pilots allow

does not a good ship make

fly your Vipers, gents. They're some of the least appreciated and underestimated ships in the game.

Guri + Predator + Autothrusters. That's 35 points for one of the best knife-fighting ships in the game. Seriously, don't underestimate the Starviper's dial. Having all the 1- and 2-speed maneuvers, plus boost and barrel roll, means that once you get into range 1 of a low-PS enemy, you can pitch a tent and start a campfire there. And when you need to get out of the traffic jam, those S-loops are fantastic. Against high-PS aces, you've got all the tools you need to set up a block, and you get a free focus token out of the bargain.

She's a menace on offense, too.

My boy Moneyinvolved took two black sun soldiers with autothrusters and a loaded up ig88b to a 4-2 finish at the Chicago regional, there's definitely some potential for the ships in conjunction. Xizor though wants to hang out with the Hounds tooth.

I wish the title wasnt unique or there was another non-unique title for the viper, but maybe we will see something like that in an aces pack.

I think that the biggest problem facing the Star Viper, and probably the main reason that it's not a serious contender for competitive lists, is the fact that it had the misfortune to be released alongside the Aggressor.

The Aggressor just blew what would have been an exceptional small based fighter out of the water.

Perhaps if the Aggressor had been released later in FFG's schedule, the Viper would found a place, other than that ship that gives you Autothrusters.

Cheers

Baaa

Nope the aggressor has nothing to do with it

Rather, blame m.o.v forcing a slant towards 2-ship builds since Wave 5 (phantom didn't help either)

The aggressor and viper don't normally compete for list space, But the viper and especially Xizor favor more squaddies (meat shields)

With partial scoring (finally) introduced, we may see some more vipers

They're fantastic ships, but bleeding mov from the rest of the squad played far too large a role in your final standing. Now, aggressors can at least approximate that drawback (even at 1 hull)

No, I think you should rather blame the Virago title. You can only have one, but Guri and Xizor get really fun with it. But, it isn't a great idea to run either of them without the title. And the generics can really only take Autothrusters. No doubt it's a great upgrade to take, but there isn't anything really exciting about them, especially when compared to some of the stuff you can do with the title.

But the slant you talk of was exacerbated by the simultaneous release of a large based ship that just screamed 2-ship build. That release had a big impact on the popularity of the Viper.

Otherwise, we'd have a thread trying to make Bro-bots viable.

Cheers

Baaa

Guru really doesn't need the title (just pred and thrust)

Xizor does if you want PS 9 but you don't run him with other vipers

So really, Viragi is absolutely irrelevant

The generics would remain overpriced even with it

My boy Moneyinvolved took two black sun soldiers with autothrusters and a loaded up ig88b to a 4-2 finish at the Chicago regional, there's definitely some potential for the ships in conjunction. Xizor though wants to hang out with the Hounds tooth.

My boy Moneyinvolved took two black sun soldiers with autothrusters and a loaded up ig88b to a 4-2 finish at the Chicago regional, there's definitely some potential for the ships in conjunction. Xizor though wants to hang out with the Hounds tooth.

But I am a filthy casual

My run up to the Atlanta regional saw similar results from iggy/vipers... 7-4 including my prep and regional play.